http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/tags/sefira YWN Coffee Room » Tag: sefira - Recent Posts en-US Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:57:45 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/search.php http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/3#post-89244 Tue, 28 Jul 2009 00:05:45 +0000 HidingUnderCover 89244@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>try six13- they're superb </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/3#post-87483 Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:52:21 +0000 da 87483@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>bein_hasdorim: the volume on my computer is 100%!!! </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/3#post-87455 Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:58:06 +0000 bein_hasdorim 87455@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>da: you seriously have to turn up the volume on ur pc!<br /> Did you not hear the sarcasm in my voice? </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/3#post-87026 Mon, 13 Jul 2009 10:47:17 +0000 cherrybim 87026@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>HaQer: If you're looking for chumras, then according to these shitas, the CD/tape player or even the radio becomes the "Klei Shir"; making the singing (without music) assur as well.</p> <p>Rav Moshe and the M'chaber hold that music (outside a seudas mitzva) is assur all the time because of aveilus for the Bais Hamikdash. Rav Moshe's heter for music is because we need it for out nerves. Why wouldn’t that apply to other times of aveilus? </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/3#post-86921 Sun, 12 Jul 2009 19:33:05 +0000 HaQer 86921@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>Are there any CD's available that have just people singing without any attempt at instruments? I would like to listen to songs that bring out the feeling of this time of year. songs about Yerushalayim, teshuva, etc. What type of CD's are available like this? </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/3#post-86911 Sun, 12 Jul 2009 18:43:24 +0000 da 86911@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>no not at all (ummmm) </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/3#post-86909 Sun, 12 Jul 2009 18:41:25 +0000 bein_hasdorim 86909@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>da: are you poking humor at the A cappella style tapes? </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/3#post-86892 Sun, 12 Jul 2009 16:13:51 +0000 da 86892@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>A couple of summers ago, I was working in an office. During the Three Weeks, my boss would say, "Turn on the tape, it sounds like a cemetery in here." When someone turned on the music, I would turn to my coworker and say, "Now it REALLY sounds like a cemetery in here!!!" </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/3#post-86880 Sun, 12 Jul 2009 13:28:59 +0000 bein_hasdorim 86880@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>Feif Un: Wow Thanks soo much!! You Mamish saved me the trouble of<br /> posting a ridiculously long post, covering all the stuff you did.</p> <p>I didn't know Rav Belsky mentioned the same thing that has been<br /> bothering me for years.</p> <p>Everything that is Assur, Today we have to find a way around it.</p> <p>A cappella Definition see wikipedia below ----&gt;<br /> A cappella (Italian[1] for From the chapel/choir) music is vocal music<br /> or singing without instrumental accompaniment,</p> <p>besides, I find it more relaxing to listen to a choir/vocals</p> <p>than a bunch of pathetic attempts at beatboxing/trumpets/weird sounds<br /> it sounds like a bunch of "Meidlach!"<br /> It's not cool! </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/3#post-86860 Sun, 12 Jul 2009 09:50:37 +0000 A600KiloBear 86860@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>BS"D</p> <p>Anon, I am being semi-facetious. The acapella groups I mentioned set words from davening IIRC to old Simon and Garfunkel songs :). Simon and Garfunkel probably do not know who these groups are. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/3#post-86773 Fri, 10 Jul 2009 11:56:51 +0000 anon for this 86773@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>A600KiloBear, do you mean that AKA Pella &#38; Beatachon use music and/ or lyrics from Simon and Garfunkel, or that Simon and Garfunkel wrote music for AKA Pella &#38; Beatachon? I'd guess the former, because I don't think Simon and Garfunkel compose together anymore, &#38; rarely appear on the same stage, but I'm not familiar with AKA Pella or Beatachon. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/3#post-86763 Fri, 10 Jul 2009 10:43:16 +0000 A600KiloBear 86763@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>BS"D</p> <p>Kapusta, Simon and Garfunkel wrote some of the music for AKA Pella and Beatachon (the former of which is VERY problematic for the three weeks and is best listened to during the year.) :).</p> <p>I used to listen to the Jewishbroadcast.com 3 weeks broadcast but I found it made me miss real music too much and one night I ended up forgetting it was the three weeks and turned on the real thing. So, I stay away. Otherwise, I would probably be OK with plain vocal albums; cannot remember which they are as I left them in the US when I moved out here.</p> <p>Ames, that is a question for a rav, but from your description, why do you WANT to practice LOL? </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/3#post-86720 Fri, 10 Jul 2009 08:49:53 +0000 oomis1105 86720@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>Lev Tahor is excellent, but there are many controversies regarding this, and a great deal of misinformation. I prefer to err on the side of caution, and I listen to news and talk radio instead, to keep alert while driving. I know that many hold that the human voice is not considered as music, but the way that the voices are recorded and enhanced simulates the sound of instrumental music and causes the same enjoyment, so who is kidding whom? </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/3#post-86673 Thu, 09 Jul 2009 21:49:41 +0000 kapusta 86673@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>A600Kilo, whats Simon and Garfunkel? ;)</p> <p><a>*kapusta*</a> </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/3#post-86620 Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:30:21 +0000 A600KiloBear 86620@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>BS"D</p> <p>I listen to "The Sound of Silence" during the Three Weeks.</p> <p>Sorry, that does NOT refer to a song by Simon and Garfunkel that I would never listen to even during the year, but rather to the absence of any sound coming out of my speakers until 10 Av after chatzois. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/3#post-86593 Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:43:00 +0000 Feif Un 86593@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>From another Jewish web site:</p> <p>Q: A cappella albums - singing without instrumental accompaniment - are becoming more and more common, especially during The Three Weeks and Sefirah when we are noheig not to listen to music. Is it halachically permissible to listen to a cappella music during these times of the year?</p> <p>Harav Yisroel Belsky shlit”a: Lately, it has become a trend to take every possible pleasure that one can think of and figure out ways to make them permissible at all times. Whether it is the imitation of non-kosher foods, making all chometzdike delicacies kosher l’Pesach, or other similar things, we find this attitude now more than ever. People cannot live for one minute with compromising on pleasures that they are used to or wish to experience. Often, the heteirim to permit such activities are, at best, based on very weak reasoning.</p> <p>One such example is the desire to listen to music during Sefirah and The Three Weeks. It has become a trend to produce “Sefirah tapes,” referred to musically as “a cappella“. The wide acceptance of such tapes has not been with rabbinic approval. Indeed, many of the gedolei rabbonim have ruled that one should not listen to this type of music during Sefirah and The Three Weeks. Unfortunately, because the music albums are being sold in the stores, people think that they must be glatt kosher. If they aren’t acceptable, people say, why would a Jewish store sell them?</p> <p>A Cappella</p> <p>There are basically three types of a cappella.</p> <p>One is where the musical sounds originate from human voices but the natural properties are digitally modified with computer software to attain quality of sounds that are not humanly possible, thus making it sound more like regular music. Such a cappella is halachically not viewed as being any different from regular music.</p> <p>There are other forms of a cappella which sound very similar to regular music, although no digital modification is done to the voices. These types of a cappella should also not be listened to during Sefirah and The Three Weeks, as will be explained shortly.</p> <p>The third type of a cappella is where regular songs are sung by an individual or choir. There is nothing halachically objectionable about listening to such a cappella during Sefirah and The Three Weeks.</p> <p>To properly understand this topic, it would be helpful to briefly relate some technical information provided by experts in the music industry as to how a cappella music is created.</p> <p>Digitally Modified A Cappella</p> <p>Every sound is made up of many different sound waves, each at there own frequency. The individual frequencies and the velocity of each sound wave give each sound its unique tonal properties.</p> <p>There is a process called equalization whereby one can alter the natural balance of frequencies. Equalization is used on almost every recorded sound we hear. It is most commonly employed to shape a sound, bringing out its own properties better. However, equalization can also be used to create a special effect. For example, a click with one’s mouth, or a chhhh sound, can be equalized to sound like a drum. If the tonal balance is changed beyond the capabilities of what a human can do, then the music can no longer be considered human sounds, but rather computer-made sounds, and would be prohibited during Sefirah and The Three Weeks.</p> <p>A second modification made is to the pitch of the notes. A bass guitar can play notes almost twice as low (two octaves lower) as a human voice can go. Therefore, in order to simulate the bass notes, some album producers lower the pitch of the notes beyond the capabilities of the human voice. This process of transposing the notes down an octave or more would also change the status of these notes from vocals to computer-generated sounds, and would be prohibited during Sefirah and The Three Weeks.</p> <p>One can also record a person sounding individual notes (e.g. an individual drum hit, a trumpet sound, etc.) and transpose it in one’s computer to every possible note and play back these notes using an external controller, such as a keyboard. One can now play this “voice” as an instrument on a keyboard and technically stimulate a “one man band”, although the sound of each key on the keyboard originated from human voices. This process, which is called “sampling”, would definitely change the status of the notes, and make them prohibited during Sefirah and The Three Weeks.</p> <p>A third modification made is to the timing of the notes. The rhythmic structure of all music can be charted on a grid. The most common breakdown would be charted in eights. That means that each rhythmic hit would take place at exactly one interval of eights. It is not humanly possible for a musician to play 100% on the grid. This slight imperfection is what gives live music its human feel, as opposed to machine music which sounds much more rigid. It is even harder for a person to create a rhythm with his mouth, and keep it perfectly on grid. Many albums take the rhythmic parts and digitally place them exactly where they belong on the grid. This process is called quantization. Though this does not change the sound of the voice, when used in combination with any of the above processes it would give the sounds more of a status of music.</p> <p>Unmodified A Cappella</p> <p>There is a common misconception that music is ossur during Sefirah. Nowhere in Hilchos Sefirah or the halachos of The Three Weeks does it mention that there is a minhag not to listen to music. All that is mentioned by the earlier poskim is that there is a minhag to abstain from rikkudim u’mecholos, dancing.</p> <p>If so, where does the entire issue of not listening to live or recorded music during Sefirah and The Three Weeks come from?</p> <p>It appears that although there was no specific minhag not to listen to music, there was a minhag to abstain from things that bring about an excessive amount of enjoyment. Furthermore, technically, due to the churban Beis Hamikdosh, music should be forbidden all year round. However, there are certain kulos which we rely upon. It is during Sefirah and The Three Weeks that we have accepted upon ourselves not to rely on these kulos and practice aveilus in this regard. Music has this power more than most things that people do for enjoyment. Music can take someone out of this world, so to speak, and make him forget, at least temporarily, all his worries and problems. Thus, whether the music is live or recorded, it produces this effect, which is contrary to the minhag. A cappella that sounds very similar to music is also included in this minhag and should not be listened to.</p> <p> Some rabbonim feel that once it sounds like music and is being played from an electronic device, that, too, renders it a musical device which is forbidden.</p> <p>Some others take it a step further and maintain that any music that stimulates the desire to dance - even mere vocals - are forbidden. Be that as it may, if the sound of the a cappella is identical to ‘regular’ music, it should definitely be avoided.</p> <p>Choirs</p> <p>A cappella music that was not modified at all, and sounds like a group of people singing, would be permissible.</p> <p>It is interesting to note that the word a cappella literally means, a - in the style of, capella - a chapel. In a chapel, they have only a choir singing with no musical instruments (other than a pipe organ which blends together very well with the voices). The harmony of the choir is meant to produce the musical affect. This is where the concept of a cappella stems from.</p> <p>*****</p> <p>Harav Shlomo Miller, Rosh Kollel of Kollel Avreichim of Toronto and head of the Bais Horaah of Lakewood, has also stated his opinion that listening to a capella music during Sefirah is forbidden. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/3#post-68241 Fri, 01 May 2009 12:23:22 +0000 noitallmr 68241@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>Good...enjoy it all... </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/3#post-68202 Fri, 01 May 2009 10:56:55 +0000 Bais Yaakov maydel 68202@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>i dont like them...<br /> thanks! yeah i remember your lil getaways and comebacks<br /> its funny how good and at-home i feel once im back! </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/3#post-68175 Fri, 01 May 2009 09:24:45 +0000 noitallmr 68175@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>Bais Yaakov maydel- How could you miss out A.K.A Pella??????</p> <p>They should be first on your list...</p> <p>And by the way- welcome back! I know the feeling of being absent here... </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/3#post-68133 Fri, 01 May 2009 08:16:46 +0000 Bais Yaakov maydel 68133@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>i knew that by the time i got to the end of the thread we wouldnt be talking about sefira music anymore but ok here are my suggestions:<br /> Lev Tahor, 1&#38;3<br /> Kol Zimra<br /> Chevra, A Cappella<br /> 613<br /> A Coppela Treasury </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/3#post-68118 Fri, 01 May 2009 04:22:13 +0000 kapusta 68118@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>Jax, most people would probably say not, much easier to just keep your phone on vibrate.</p> <p><a>*kapusta*</a> </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/3#post-68103 Fri, 01 May 2009 00:10:49 +0000 Jax 68103@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>how about cellphone ring tones that are actual music song? should the ringer be changed during sefira? </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/3#post-66941 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:02:09 +0000 rabbiofberlin 66941@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>feif un- R'Moshe does not say that RECORDED music is prohibited. He talks about music with instruments- ACTUAL LIVE music,not recorded.<br /> Quite the contrary- he writes that "on radio-which is recorded music- music by voice is mutar but not with instruments- and he talks about all year round- when the machmirim prohibit any music.<br /> at least this is how I read the end of his teshuvo. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/3#post-66933 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:30:11 +0000 Feif Un 66933@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>rob: I never said chazzanut is assur - if anything, I said it would be allowed!<br /> As for recorded music, R' Moshe indicates that recorded music (with instruments) wouldn't be allowed during sefirah, as I stated. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/3#post-66858 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:52:16 +0000 tzippi 66858@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>ROB, a couple of statements, then an opinion.<br /> There are reliable poskim who are matir listening to music during the sefira.<br /> There are reliable poskim who don't.</p> <p>(I don't know how them came to their respective pesakim. Chumra/kula may have had nothing to do with it, this is just how they understand the bottom line.)</p> <p>There is room to be meikil during aveilus.</p> <p>Opinion: if I felt anything during the sefira close to the aveilus I felt for my mother, I would have beyond no issue with being meikil, if that is indeed appropriate. This does NOT mean I have to take on every chumra or hanhaga during the sefira to come to aveilus, just that when it comes to music, as this was the way I was raised and married into, I will continue NOT to listen to music, live or otherwise. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/3#post-66857 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:50:07 +0000 rabbiofberlin 66857@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>feif un and bemused....I just had the opportunity to see the teshuva that you indicated. (Orach Chaim chelek alef, 166). Actually, with the greatest respect to you, the whole teshuvo has nothing to do with sefira, but with music all year round. As I indicated, there is an old-standing prohibition about playing music all year round- "zecher lechurbon-" (see Shulchan Aruch Orach Chaim 160-3) but, as you probabaly know, it is generally not enforced today. This is what R'Moshe discusses in this teshuvo UNTIL the LAST line of the teshuvo-where he says (I quote): " and in the days of sefira, music with instruments (Zimro demano) should be prohibited, even according to the meikilim all year round".<br /> So- the teshuvo has nothing to do with general music in the sefira and actually only prohibits- at best- music with actual instruments.<br /> And now the revelation- just before this line R'Moshe writes (actual quote):"if it is on the radio-actual quote- singing by voice is allowed -all year round- but music with instruments is prohibited". R'Moshe EXPLICITLY allows voice singing on the radio, even if you think music all year round is prohibited.<br /> So- "bemechilas kevod toroschem" there is still no inkling of recorded music of songs(like radio) being prohibited in sefira days (or all year round, for that matter).This is why I think R'Moshe allowed "chazanut" in the "jemei hasefira" because it is purely vocal.<br /> Please note-bemused-that the putative gezeira of MAYBE dancing with fast music is nowhere to be found.So, I think that your harsh words towards me were not appropriate.<br /> If there is another teshuvo by R'Moshe on this subject, please advise. As of now, I stand by my original opinion that recorded music in the sefira is not prohibited, a psak that you have heard from many Poskim. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/3#post-66841 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 07:18:39 +0000 anonymisss 66841@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>I protest! moish, you are NOT always wrong (refer to the DDR thread for confirmation) and you do know many things!</p> <p><em>~a~</em> </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/3#post-66822 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 00:02:32 +0000 moish01 66822@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>oh don't worry, rabbiofberlin. no need to ask mechila- i'm always wrong anyway ;) i don't really know anything and i was just kidding about that anyway </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/2#post-66740 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 21:51:53 +0000 Bemused 66740@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>ok, rob, you may certainly keep to your opinion, if that is your stance. That is what Bechirah is all about. I have done what needs to be done. Thank you. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/2#post-66606 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:32:33 +0000 rabbiofberlin 66606@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>bemused--- 'divrei chachomim benachas nishmoim". azus???<br /> First of all- have you actually seen the teshuva of R"Moshe? I have not -although i intend to- and until i see it ,I will keep to my opinion. It is not me who says this about gezeiros- the poskim say that. We cannot -and should not- make our own gezeirus. This is a quintessential gezeira- no fast music because MAYBE we MIGHT dance-and on a subject -aveilus- when we are always "meikel". so, in spite of your indignation- I will continue to keep to my opinion. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/2#post-66580 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 17:56:41 +0000 Bemused 66580@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>rob,</p> <p>Are you saying on Rav Moshe ZTL that "there is no real rationale to add gezeiros"?</p> <p>I usually find it prudent to refrain from joining this type of discussion, but I wish to register protest at this azus for Kavod Torah. Thank you. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/2#post-66561 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 16:28:30 +0000 rabbiofberlin 66561@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>feif un, thanks for your post. Why is fast music not allowed? if the "issur' is dancing (rikuddim umecholos)then why is music forbidden ? As I wrote- you just made a new gezeira- no fast music because MAYBE you would dance. There is no real rationale to add gezeiros. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/2#post-66548 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:00:20 +0000 Feif Un 66548@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>rob: R' Moshe says that we shouldn't listen to music during sefirah. R' Scheinberg shlita and R' Eliyahu Shlesinger bring down from the sefer "Eleh Heim Moadai" that since the real issur is not to dance, slow music is not a problem. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/2#post-66543 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 14:45:32 +0000 rabbiofberlin 66543@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>feif un- I will try to look up the teshuvah from R'Moishe zz'l.<br /> Actually, you have just introduced a new "gezeirah" : "No fast music because POSSIBLY you may end up dancing"? Since when do we make up our own gezeiros? Especially concerning a distant chumro...<br /> I have great problems with the various "additions" that we continually make, especially concerning aveilus and " al kamo vekamo" for sefira that is a "minhag hageonim' and is never mentioned in gemoro.<br /> to kapusta- I have no quarrel with anyone who wants to impose upon himself certain chumros. I do have problems when you try to impose it upon the whole world. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/2#post-66528 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:49:26 +0000 Feif Un 66528@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>rob: Chazzanus is allowed because it doesn't make you dance. As said earlier, the issur during sefirah is to dance. Slow music, classical music, etc. are allowed. Fast music, even acapella, is not.<br /> To read R' Moshe's teshuva, look in the Igros Moshe, OC 1:166 </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/2#post-66525 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 12:31:19 +0000 rabbiofberlin 66525@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>moish01- good line and funny!<br /> Actually, bemechilas kevod toroscho, you are wrong. There is a difference in the loshon of the torah, the gemoro and the poskim. "sefirah" is cutting hair, "gilusch' is cutting the beard (and other bodily hair-see the past parsha vehisgaloch). The perek in Moed koton is called "Elu megalchim" which incldues beard cutting. The shulcahn aruch speaks about "sefirah" which is cutting hair. Clearly, there are different conditions for hair-cutting and beard-cutting (see various hetterim to shave on chol hamoed). SO, I appareciate your comment but to me it is "tongue-in-cheek". </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/2#post-66522 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 12:22:12 +0000 moish01 66522@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>oh and that's like what you said about the music. maybe it's not stated (both the music and the shaving) because it's supposed to be assumed. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/2#post-66521 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 12:18:43 +0000 moish01 66521@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>rabbiofberlin - </p> <blockquote><p>(it is not even clear if cutting one's beard- i.e. shaving, is included).</p></blockquote> <p>probably because you're not supposed to shave altogether. that was probably supposed to be assumed ;) </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/2#post-66500 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 07:59:22 +0000 rabbiofberlin 66500@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>Thsnks for all the posters..incidentally, i am pleased that the comments have to do with "halacha' and custom matters...not some inane other subject...<br /> feif un-I only drink cholov yisroel because i live in a place where it is easy to get cholov yisroel. If I would be living in montana (for ex) i would rely on R"moshe's hetter. However, the matter of cholov yisroel is discussed very thoroughly in halacha amongst the early "baalei halacha". The matter of RECORDED music is not.<br /> Actually, even the fact of not having LIVE music is an ADDITION to the minhagim of sefirah. If you look in the shulchan aruch, all you find is a prohibiton to marry and cut one's hair (it is not even clear if cutting one's beard- i.e. shaving, is included). Everything else is an addition. Some would say that the prohibiton of live music is applicable all year round, hence there is no need to make a special issue on sefira.We have, by and large, ignored that prohibition (of live music all year round)but the late poskim have included this in sefira days.</p> <p>My point is that it is a "klal" that you rule like the "meikel" in aveilus (check with your rabbi)and so, it seems that the early rulings on any matter of aveilus espoused the lenient view. I don't see why we should no use the same approach in sefira days.<br /> You will note (see some of the posters) that various yeshivos (and poskim,I may add) are lenient as far as shaving on certain days in the sefira- no doubt this is because of the same reasoning- you do not increase the aveilus aspect.<br /> And, incidentally, who said that R'Moshe did not alllow any music in sefira? i have it, on good authority, that he did allow recorded music of chazanut for radio stations. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/sefira-music/page/2#post-66499 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 07:49:18 +0000 Feif Un 66499@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>oomis, if you're following the opinion of your Rav, that's fine.<br /> ROB said the following:<br /> "I prefer to take the logical way- there is absolutely no mention in shulchan aruch of an outright ban on music and i don't see why we should add- be moisiff- chumro upon chumro in a time that isn't even a time of real aveilus and never mentiond in the gemoro.<br /> Sorry, guys, chumros in sefira don't cut it for me."</p> <p>My point was that if his attitude is that there is no mention of it in the Shulchan Aruch, R' Moshe's psak should make up for it. If he has this attitude towards chumros here, why not in other areas? </p>