http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/tags/tznius YWN Coffee Room » Tag: tznius - Recent Posts en-US Fri, 12 Mar 2010 17:58:20 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/search.php http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-69973 Tue, 05 May 2009 20:07:32 +0000 kapusta 69973@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>I dont think its the long earrings per say, but what it usually comes along with. Like long, hair that is down and attracting, a floor length skirt maybe. It gives off a certain look.</p> <p><a>*kapusta*</a> </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-69585 Tue, 05 May 2009 12:57:36 +0000 SJSinNYC 69585@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>Long earrings (IMHO) are fine. Are there flashy versions that call unwanted attention? Of course, but that doesnt mean its the long earrings in general that are the problems.</p> <p>Edited just because I can LOL </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-69576 Tue, 05 May 2009 12:49:36 +0000 Jewess 69576@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>Why are long earings not tzanua? I never understood that. They don't highlight any part of your body that should be covered. And they don't call more attention to you than, say, a pair of shiny diamond studs. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-69572 Tue, 05 May 2009 12:41:42 +0000 Jewess 69572@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>I'm assuming the sunglasses question is a joke. How about long earings? Necklaces? Bangles?<br /> SJS, they look stupid on people when the style does not suit their face or they look like P.H. wanabes. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-69558 Tue, 05 May 2009 12:22:43 +0000 SJSinNYC 69558@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>Ames, I view them as jewelry for the eyes. Since we are allowed jewelry, there should be no reason NOT to allow them.</p> <p>That being said, I think they look stupid on many people. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-69554 Tue, 05 May 2009 12:10:08 +0000 oomis1105 69554@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>ames - LOL!!!!!!</p> <p>Sure, why not? Is there any halacha that says girls are not allowed to accessorize with nice things? If there were, then NOBODY should ever wear nice REGULAR glass frames, much less sunglasses. They should all be plain, rimless frames, just the lenses. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-69312 Mon, 04 May 2009 18:25:52 +0000 Pashuteh Yid 69312@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>TB, Yosef hatazadik also knew many languages, and if he sounded like a total shlemiel, I doubt anyone would have taken his eitzahs seriously.</p> <p>Also the Sanhedrin had to know a lot of math for the cheshbonos of kiddush hachodesh. I believe I read in one sefer (possibly the Even Shleima on the GRA) that one who is too simple (temimusdig) to be matzliach in the secular world, will be too temimusdig to be matzliach in milchemsa shel Torah.</p> <p>Many years ago, we lost a lot of frum kids because all the Rebbes had just come over from Europe and couldn't speak a decent English and didn't know about sports, etc. Then a generation of regular American, English-speaking role models emerged in chinuch, and many kids were very inspired to Shmiras Hamitzvos. Now it seems we are going back to European style, a generation later. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-69051 Mon, 04 May 2009 11:39:27 +0000 tb 69051@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>Pashuteh Yid - the reason the sanhedrin members had to know 70 languages was because eidus has to be heard directly and not thru an interpreter, it has nothing to do with their need to have a certain level of education. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-68196 Fri, 01 May 2009 10:44:48 +0000 azi 68196@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>The thing about the charei "uniform" is that its just like many other groups who often dress in a similar manner to show that they are part of the larger group. Its part of the human condition. People need to feel like they belong. Most groups develop a similar mode of dress for that reason.</p> <p>For example hipsters in Williumsburg wear thick black glasses and skinny jeans, and all the punks in NYU die their hair pink or blue. academics wear tweed jackets with elbow patches. Students at Harvard wear harvard t-shirts and students at Brown U wear brown t-shirst. Even modern orthodox who do wear normal clothes still wear a unifying item, which is the kippa serugah. </p> <p>Clothing is about in many ways a way to identify a persons alligance. The problem is when it becomes more than that. If modern orthodox want to wear white yalmukas to show they are are part of that group thats all its about, they don't prescribe any special meaning or value to it. That many frum jews have turned their clthing into a "frum" thing and a spiritual thing, I feel, is well beyond what reasonable and rational. Its actually just part of the large issu that is plaging Jews today which is the focus on externals and unimportnats things in yehadus, instead on the interal and true halachas. The same reason why a frum jew could make his family nuts trying to be extra makpid with gobroktz and and the same time sit at the table and speak loshon hara, or any other possible thing is the same reason why clothing has become such a big issue. Its just people focusing on the wrong thing. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-68190 Fri, 01 May 2009 10:01:08 +0000 Pashuteh Yid 68190@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>Personally, I can make an argument that Rabbanim should wear black hats, as it is part of their uniform, just like policemen wear caps, etc. But when I see little 8th grade boys at recess in black pants and white shirts playing ball, I wonder what this is really all about.</p> <p>At any rate, the American chareidi levush is rather mild, but the chassidic levush I have to admit, causes me some embarrassment. If I were talking to a non-Jew, and a chassidic person in full levush came up and started to ask me something in a broken English, I probably would feel some embarrassment. Maybe I am a bad person.</p> <p>It is this idea that some groups seem to believe that there is bdavka a mitzvah to give off an appearance of being primitive, and not being able to speak the language of the country, not learning anything secular after Bar-Mitzvah, not even basic algebra, dressing in such a different manner, that I suppose I would not be honest if I didn't say it doesn't cause me some level of discomfort. It is not that I don't love every yid, but is this really what the RBSH wants us to appear like in the eyes of the world? Does this fulfill Ki hi chochmaschem uvinaschem l'eini hoamim? Doesn't gemara say they would not appoint somebody to the Sanhedrin unless he knew 70 languages? Also, I think that the gemara said that Rebbe Yehudah Hanassi hitiru lo lsaper kumi, they allowed him to get a real goyishe haircut, since he had to interact with govt officials.</p> <p>Anyway, there is certainly a maylah of separating ourselves from bad influences, but somehow it has to be balanced with the need for us to maintain a dignified image. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-68145 Fri, 01 May 2009 08:40:05 +0000 kapusta 68145@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>Did this thread switch titles with the "Hat and jacket at chuck-E-cheese" thread?</p> <p><a>*kapusta*</a> </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-68134 Fri, 01 May 2009 08:18:44 +0000 azi 68134@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>Who ever heard of people trying to get a post shut down in a forum? its a little nutty. Beacon, if you dont like the conversation some group is having go to a different post. How is it your business or your right to decide what others can talk about. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-68020 Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:02:01 +0000 Bais Yaakov maydel 68020@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>i think im getting creeped out that men are posting here.<br /> ladies, if you wanna start a thread about tznius, start one for women only.<br /> hopefullt the men will be mature enough to refrain from peeking at the thread. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-68018 Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:00:54 +0000 beacon 68018@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>mod- I nominate this thread as ready to be put to sleep... </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-67893 Thu, 30 Apr 2009 17:58:59 +0000 000646 67893@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>anonymiss,</p> <p>You are right, but if the point of wearing a hat is to look dignified you arnt really acommplishing that goal by wearing a black hat nowadays.</p> <p>Areivim, </p> <p>I am talking about what rich, succesfull and dignified people (such as Bill Gates, Michael Bloomberg, Presidents Bush and Obama ect. ect.) can be seen wearing nowadays and it is not only white shirts and black pants. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-67873 Thu, 30 Apr 2009 17:33:28 +0000 anonymisss 67873@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>000646, I think there a lot of people who wear really strange things these days, so I wonder how much attention it actually calls to a person.</p> <p><em>~a~</em> </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-67859 Thu, 30 Apr 2009 15:57:06 +0000 areivimzehlazeh 67859@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>I'm talking real, respected, first class- not the imitation "new rich". </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-67851 Thu, 30 Apr 2009 15:27:47 +0000 000646 67851@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>Areivim, you said </p> <p>"First class by today's standards is a white shirt &#38; dark suit (men). Just walk the streets of Manhattan. Anyone that's a who's who or is at least trying to look the part will be dressed in this formal attire. Now the hat is the only part left to argue about."</p> <p>No it isnt, you will see people wearing dark suits and dress shirts of many assorted colors. </p> <p>There is also no real argument that a black hat is NOT considerd normal, formal or proffesional attire nowadays, its just considerd wierd. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-67838 Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:42:25 +0000 areivimzehlazeh 67838@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>First class by today's standards is a white shirt &#38; dark suit (men). Just walk the streets of Manhattan. Anyone that's a who's who or is at least trying to look the part will be dressed in this formal attire. Now the hat is the only part left to argue about. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-67805 Thu, 30 Apr 2009 12:47:04 +0000 Pashuteh Yid 67805@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>Thanks again, Delib. BTW, You never sent me my shadchanus gelt for making your shidduch here on YW about a year ago.</p> <p>On the topic of dressing and the levush for men, I see they just closed the Chuck E Cheese thread (which I must bashfully admit I don't know what that is, but it didn't stop me from piping up with my two cents).</p> <p>I wanted to make the following comment before things went sour and people started fighting.</p> <p>Perhaps the reason why some people seem to have expressed negative reactions to the levush was because they are actually slightly embarrassed. Permit me to explain.</p> <p>To everybody's credit we all believe a yid must dress with dignity. I believe that is what lo shinu es malbusham means. However, here is where we differ. The pro-levush crowd believes that we dress with garments that were dignified in the 17th or 18th century, while the anti-levush crowd believes we must dress in garments that are dignified right now. They believe a Jew must alwayss look first class in the eyes of the world, not just the eyes of other heimisher yidden.</p> <p>Having said that, consider the following: You are a nice person and invite homeless people regularly to your Shabbos table. One day you are meeting in a resturant with a prospective employer on a very important interview. you are dressed up in your best suit. In walks one of these homeless people who has a long scraggly beard, long unwashed hair and is in torn and tattered clothing. His hygiene leaves what to be desired, and he is holding a bottle of whiskey. He runs up to you and gives you a hug and asks, "How are your wife and kids? I really enjoyed being at your house last Saturday."</p> <p>Now, you cringe with embarrassment, and hope that this potential boss doesn't think this friend reflects on you, and that you are also a drunkard. Now, while I have obviously exaggerated, I think you understand my point. There are some of us who not only believe the levush is not halachically required, but actually does more harm than good to our collective reputation. Why not dress first class by today's standards, instead of first-class by now-obsolete standards?</p> <p>Mods, could you please allow this post? </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-67791 Thu, 30 Apr 2009 12:18:25 +0000 DeliberatelyEsoteric 67791@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>pashuteh yid brings up good points.</p> <p>also, i think that some of the males here are enjoying this whole discussion far too much. perhaps it should end here. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-67752 Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:55:16 +0000 000646 67752@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>Aussieboy, you said </p> <p>"The reason woman have tznius is so they dont make it harder for the men to fight the urge. (No it was not put there because the girl is a bas yisroel who is like a princess and a princess is dignified.)" </p> <p>Why do you say this is the reason for tznius? </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-67737 Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:14:41 +0000 gavra_at_work 67737@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>ames:</p> <p>Wearing pants &#38; sneakers under your skirt may be normal where you live &#38; therefore Tzanuah. Without a location (please don't give it:) there is no way to know.</p> <p>aussieboy &#38; SJS:</p> <p>First prove that women have Tznius (Legabey other women). They do not (as long as they are not showing Ervah (lower) MB 75:8. Women only have Tznius OUTSIDE (R. E. Falk argues) due to Daas Moshe V'Yehudis, but no specific MITZVA per say (MB 75:10) to the best of my knowledge, or from what the MB seems to say (Of course there is a requirement to follow Da'as Moshe V'Yehudis). Men HAVE TO not look at women, either for Han'nah or while reading Shema (and the sort).</p> <p>R. E. Falk says that women have to be Tzanuah indoors so that men who are inside will not be nichshal to make a brocha before them, but the mekor he brings (MB 75:10) says nothing of the sort. If anyone has a mekor.... </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-67698 Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:04:43 +0000 SJSinNYC 67698@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p><em>The reason woman have tznius is so they dont make it harder for the men to fight the urge. </em></p> <p>Aussie, I don't believe thats true. Sure, its an added bonus, but tzniut for a woman herself. </p> <p>You may be skeptical, so lets look at this. A man is required to have children. He CANNOT do it without a woman, yet a woman is in no way obligated to help him fulfill his mitzvah. Women are not obligated to get married and have children. True, most women WANT to do this, but its not an obligation. </p> <p>I am happy that I can help men overcome their obstacles while I am doing my own mitzvah. But thats not WHY I am obligated in the mitzvah. Unless someone has a source that says tzniut is for men? I haev never heard it approached that way. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-67689 Thu, 30 Apr 2009 08:39:23 +0000 anonymisss 67689@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>aussie's right, I think. It's not a matter of growing up, it's a matter of overcoming the temptation. </p> <p><em>~a~</em> </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-67659 Thu, 30 Apr 2009 01:30:17 +0000 aussieboy 67659@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>PY: <em>He must simply grow up</em></p> <p>Why dont you wake up to the world. This is something that all men have from age 10 to 100 (if not younger). It is not something that makes the man immature. It is something that god put in the world and it was put here for a very good reason (. In fact it was taken away but needed to be put back again). The reason woman have tznius is so they dont make it harder for the men to fight the urge. (No it was not put there because the girl is a bas yisroel who is like a princess and a princess is dignified.)</p> <p>As for what is considered not tznius it all depends on your perspective. I went from being extremely religious to not religious at all in just 6 months and what i view now as not tznius is very diffrent than what i considered not tznius 6 months ago. (This is the same with every aspect of religion.) In fact what a girl I may have looked twice at I wouldnt even look at once now because she is dressed so tznius. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-67552 Wed, 29 Apr 2009 21:20:45 +0000 oomis1105 67552@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>But just so you know, I was not offended in the least</p> <p>Good to know. No offense was intended. :) </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-67382 Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:01:07 +0000 Bemused 67382@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>oomis, I forgive you for your labelings (unsolicited chauvinist for her feelings) because it appears this subject is one you feel strongly about. I tried to point the issue out to you with gentleness, and I'm glad that you agree with the issue in general. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-67327 Wed, 29 Apr 2009 13:36:19 +0000 oomis1105 67327@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>"oomis, I tend to think an eyeroll regarding the opinion of another's husband doesn't do much to increase the esteem of said person for spouse. That's just my opinion, and something I am mapkid on. If you don't think it's important, I understand"</p> <p>I am very makpid on people having kovod and esteem for their spouses. That does not require me to agree with what their spouse thinks or says, and I can feel that the person is expressing an opinion that is a little unreasonable. Had I called ames' husband, "stupid," or "ignorant," you would be right to think I was insulting him. However, I was basically sighing, "what will they think of next," and I don't feel I was being disrespectful. That being said, I reiterate that if AMES herself and not you (the unsolicited chauvinist for her feelings)feels I insulted her husband, then I sincerely apologize to her, as that was certainly not my intent. And for the record, I certainly DO think that's important. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-67302 Wed, 29 Apr 2009 11:01:21 +0000 Pashuteh Yid 67302@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>Ames: We are not in the business of mind control. If a girl is dressed properly, she has done her part.</p> <p>Proud Jew: Not necessarily. Where in Shulchan Oruch is there a measurement for the height of heels? Just because XYZ gets one individual excited, doesn't mean a women must stop doing that. If some guy happens to find green dresses with purple polka dots to be extremely attractive, do all women have to stop wearing those colors? </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-67301 Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:54:28 +0000 Bemused 67301@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>makpid/typo </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-67295 Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:07:35 +0000 Bemused 67295@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>oomis, I tend to think an eyeroll regarding the opinion of another's husband doesn't do much to increase the esteem of said person for spouse. That's just my opinion, and something I am mapkid on. If you don't think it's important, I understand. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-67293 Wed, 29 Apr 2009 09:54:16 +0000 Proud Jew 67293@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>A while we are at this subject.</p> <p>When girls walk with High Heels &#38; tight clothing on the street, its not so far from going on the DDR. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/7#post-67281 Wed, 29 Apr 2009 09:05:37 +0000 Pashuteh Yid 67281@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>I agree with most people here that pants under the skirt is no problem. Pashuteh Yid's klal godol in tznius: Adding material never lessens the level of tznius, and can only add to it, no matter where that material is added.</p> <p>In mathematical terms:</p> <p>The level of tznius is a monotonically increasing function of the amount of material.</p> <p>BTW: A corollary of this has been discussed in other threads regarding slits. PY holds that a skirt which is say 40 inches long, but with a 5 inch slit is clearly more tzniusdig than a 35 inch long skirt. As before, since there is more material in the skirt with the slit, it is the more tzniusdig. Otherwise there must be some new issur of hosafas begadim which I was never previously aware of. When you add 5" of material to a 35 inch long skirt, but don't have enough to make it all the way around the skirt, you have violated an issur. You are better off not adding any material at all. Now tell me, does that make even one drop of sense? Hmmm, hosafas begadim.</p> <p>I agree with Azi and Oomis, as I wrote at length before. The women's job is to cover the halachic areas, and not to deliberately invite men to commit an immoral act. As long as she goes about her business, it is the man's problem to control his yetzer hara, and not to invent all kinds of new prohibitions corresponding to whatever filth he has on his mind at that particular moment. He must simply grow up. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/6#post-67274 Wed, 29 Apr 2009 08:17:28 +0000 oomis1105 67274@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>There is nothing wong with the word puhleeze. It is an eyeroll and a "what are they going to come up with next?" feeling that is my instinctive reaction. If however it offended ames, then I do apologize to her, as that was certainly not my intent. I was more expressing support for HER OWN attitude about her husband's line of reasoning. If you look at her own statement, she says, "I say, why the heck is it my problem what he thinks.." (and yes, I assume she is referring to the GUY who sees her walking in a skirt and long pants underneath, and NOT to her HUSBAND). And she is right, and so is AZI, that we cannot be responsible for the thoughts of every person on the street. Any guy who is so carefully scrutinizing women on a regular basis to see if they are tzniusdig enough, is looking way too much at women altogether and has a problem.<br /> I am reminded of a male teacher of mine in seminary, who would regularly comment on our skirt lengths (fortunately I was never the object of his scathing remarks), and even at that time, I was wondering to myself, "He came into the classroom and we were already seated - why is he staring at our legs? Is that really appropriate for him to be commenting on this all the time?" </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/6#post-67270 Wed, 29 Apr 2009 06:31:56 +0000 azi 67270@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>I have always said that an obsession with avoiding woman is still an obsession with woman. Just think about what "very" frum men have on their mind: </p> <p>1) Is this woman wearing appropriately thick or flesh tones stockings<br /> 2) How much of her hair is showing out of her shaitel<br /> 3) How tight or lose is her clothing<br /> 4) open toed shoe, dangling earrings, too much makeup<br /> 5) Can she wear pants under her skirt or not<br /> 6) Should a woaman go horseback riding</p> <p>And the worst of all is how may think in these terms about children. Its perverted. For anyone to think of a child in those terms is sickening. I have no words to describe how disturbing it is that many newspapers block out pictures of five, six year old girls. Its not an impressive thing. That they feel they "need" to do it is just very scary.</p> <p>A goy, or even a jew who isn't carefull may notice a woman for a second and move on. They dont spend to much time on those womens personal issues. That all these frum guys are sitting around and discussing the fit of a womans blouse is horrible. I venture to say that they are the worse ones, not the goy. </p> <p>A posek who must address these issues for woman to know what to do is a different issue. Thats their responsibility and extremely appropriate. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/6#post-67254 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 23:12:17 +0000 anonymisss 67254@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p><em>A side point on tznius: Now, with the weather the way it is this week there is a problem of women walking around with uncovered legs and in flip flops (I happen to think it looks completely ridiculous to be in completely tznius until the knee, and then "beachwear", but,) I have heard many people (chashuv, respected people) say how terrible it is that they are walking around like that. Rather, think to yourself how good it is that at least their hair is covered, (assuming its someone married), aren't wearing something too tight etc. No one knows what she came from and this level may be an increase in her level of tznius.</p> <p>*kapusta* </em></p> <p>kapusta, I like your attitude!</p> <p><em>~a~</em> </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/6#post-67250 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 22:59:07 +0000 Bemused 67250@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>oomis, just remember that she is talking about her husband's opinion. Perhaps expressions such as PUHLEEZE! should not be used when responding to such a comment. I'm sure you agree, and that you didn't realize the origin of the opinion. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/6#post-67207 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 21:34:07 +0000 oomis1105 67207@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>"He doesn't like it because he says it's not tznius for a guy to be thinking I'm headed to (or from) the gym"</p> <p>And maybe if a woman is seen walking on the street after dark, the men who see her might think she is on her way to or from the Mikvah. PUHLEEZE! Sometimes it feels like guys go too far in dreaming up these scenarios. Any guy who is busy thinking of women going to and from the gym, has entirely too much time on his hands, IMO. </p> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/frum-girls-dancing-on-the-dance-revolution-at-arcades-1/page/6#post-67181 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 21:17:08 +0000 an open book 67181@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ <p>jewess: i didn't say it was everyone, &#38; i didn't say it was a sure thing. but it is possible, &#38; it's not so far-fetched, i've seen it myself. yes, leggings are like footless tights, but somehow they are considered more like a type of pants &#38; tights are thought of like socks, i think. none of this is a physical problem, it's more in the person's outlook. </p>