<![CDATA[YWN Coffee Room » Topic: Who says that Torah Min Hashomayim is necessarily meant to be provable?]]>

<![CDATA[YWN Coffee Room » Topic: Who says that Torah Min Hashomayim is necessarily meant to be provable?]]> http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ en Sat, 25 Jul 2015 02:09:07 +0000 OneOfMany on "Who says that Torah Min Hashomayim is necessarily meant to be provable?" http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/who-says-that-torah-min-hashomayim-is-necessarily-meant-to-be-provable#post-405700 Tue, 11 Sep 2012 00:42:51 +0000 OneOfMany 405700@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ snort HaLeiVi on "Who says that Torah Min Hashomayim is necessarily meant to be provable?" http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/who-says-that-torah-min-hashomayim-is-necessarily-meant-to-be-provable#post-405698 Tue, 11 Sep 2012 00:34:22 +0000 HaLeiVi 405698@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ However it can be easily proven that Toran Min Hashomyim (Torah from Heaven) is indeed fom Heaven. There is grammatical proof to that. ready now on "Who says that Torah Min Hashomayim is necessarily meant to be provable?" http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/who-says-that-torah-min-hashomayim-is-necessarily-meant-to-be-provable#post-405648 Mon, 10 Sep 2012 20:59:53 +0000 ready now 405648@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ Torah Min Hashamayim (Torah from Heaven) is a fact that it is superfluous to “prove”. When someone asks about it then it is explained what happened at that time and that The Holy Torah is from Heaven from Hashem, just as it is recounted in the Torah, just as we all experienced it. Apart from the miracles at Matan Torah,the giving to us by Hashem of the Torah, the Kohanin today are direct descendants of Aharon the Kohen the brother of Moshe Rabbenu. Moshe Rabbenu talked face to face with Hashem. The Kohanim saw the scarlet thread turn white on Yom Kippur in the Holy Temple. None of their ancestors have denied it. Again, Torah Min Hashamayim (Torah from Heaven) is a fact that it is superfluous to “prove”. However it can be easily proven that Toran Min Hashomyim (Torah from Heaven) is indeed fom Heaven. interjection on "Who says that Torah Min Hashomayim is necessarily meant to be provable?" http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/who-says-that-torah-min-hashomayim-is-necessarily-meant-to-be-provable#post-405619 Mon, 10 Sep 2012 16:36:57 +0000 interjection 405619@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ I don't believe it is meant to be provable. If God wanted us to keep the Torah because of a proof, He would have made the proofs easier to find. It is possible I'm wrong but I believe God wants us to earn our belief in Him and in the Torah. We are supposed to keep it because we believe it's true but he wants us to work for it so we actually deserve to believe in Him. on the ball on "Who says that Torah Min Hashomayim is necessarily meant to be provable?" http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/who-says-that-torah-min-hashomayim-is-necessarily-meant-to-be-provable#post-405518 Mon, 10 Sep 2012 07:21:54 +0000 on the ball 405518@http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/ The various posts on this subject got me thinking about this question. Maybe absolute proof does NOT exist. And maybe that's why the Torah warns us so vehemently to maintain the memory of Maamad Har Sinai by passing it from father to son and Rebbe to talmid. My father told me that his he heard from his father who in turn heard from his and he from his and so on ...and this actually goes back unbroken for 3000 years or so that the events in the Torah actually happened and that we met Hashem at Har Sinai, heard Him speak personally and that he at the time commanded us to accept a written and oral Law that would be transmitted from generation to generation, starting with Moshe. That's why I together with hundreds of thousands of other Jews believe in the Torah. This doesn't necessarily PROVE it's true. It's just the basis for my belief. Think about it - if every generation since Matan Torah had faithfully passed this on and if every generation had faithfully accepted that fact - there would be no need for proof ever. If someone breaks the chain of tradition - that's their choice. Everyone has bechira. Who's to say the Torah provided an alternative way of connecting with our Mesorah. If someone then fails to pass on the tradition or fails to accept it - it's too bad. Maybe to reconnect then does require a leap of faith of sorts. Granted, their are very strong pointers that make denying it close to irrational. Chazal and the Kuzari and others provide these pointers. But absolutely solid, incontrovertible proof? I am not sure.