Adjoining property is doing extension- beam is on my property (residential)

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  • #604433

    AZOI.IS
    Participant

    Adjoining property is doing extension- beam is on my property, about a foot (residential).

    Were in shock.

    Where do I begin? Which lawyer (professional but aggressive) is best for this? Im in Brooklyn.

    What has happened to others with this situation?

    #890095

    choppy
    Participant

    If it is a Yid, make sure you got to Beis Din. Taking a Yid to arkoyos (goyish court) is a massive aveira. (I think the halacha would even allow someone to kill someone who did that.)

    #890096

    pcoz
    Member

    Is your neighbour frum?

    #890097

    yoyo56
    Member

    why do u have to do anything abt it?

    you ging to go to a non jewish court?!? what are you? maybe kindly use you words! dont rush to a non jewish court!

    #890098

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    If it is a Yid, make sure you got to Beis Din. Taking a Yid to arkoyos (goyish court) is a massive aveira. (I think the halacha would even allow someone to kill someone who did that.)

    You are then, hereby, invited to come and kill me. I once called the cops on a Jew (well, his car, specifically) without asking permission from a Rav or a Bais Din.

    The Wolf

    #890099

    choppy
    Participant

    Its easy to make such an invitation knowing you are unknown to the invitee, so he couldn’t accept your fictitious invitation.

    #890100

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    choppy (or whatever you call yourself these days),

    My email address is well known. Send me an email and I’ll be more than happy to make myself available to you for Torah-justice.

    The Wolf

    #890101

    AZOI.IS
    Participant

    Is this always the case, or are there exceptions? First of all no Bais Din can do a survey of the properties- and only lawyers get that done, I believe.

    Very frum, Torah abiding lawyers dont ever accept cases when one Jew fights another? I dont think so.

    #890102

    choppy
    Participant

    Azoi: What lawyers do to make a buck, including so-called “Very frum, Torah abiding lawyers”, does not halacha make or justify.

    Yes, you are required to go to Beis Din, not arkoyos (goyish court).

    #890103

    BaalSechel
    Participant

    Just a quick question: Did you speak to your nieghbor nicely? Did you point out to him that he is protruding into your property? Perhaps he is willing to provide some sort of financial compensation that you can both agree upon. I have a lot of expeience in dealing with Choshen Mishpat, and often the solutions that leave most people happy are calm, negotiated ones (never let yourself be rushed into a solution; you will only regret it). If you have a wise Rav with experience, he may be able to help come up with an acceptable deal. Don’t forget, at the end of the day you two will still be neighbors, possibly for the rest of your lives. You owe it to yourself to deal with this in a calm manner, being as friendly as the situation allows for.

    #890104

    PizzaPizza
    Member

    If your property is being damaged and certainly if there is a physical risk of danger due to your neighbor’s encroaching on your property you should immediately dial 311 (in NYC) and file a complaint with the Department of Buildings. If your neighbors complain tell them you relied on a famous Aruch Hashulchan in Choshen Mishpat 388. If there is no danger and you can live with the temporary encroachment I advise that you grin and bear it.

    #890105

    agittayid
    Participant

    I would contact a lawyer as soon as possible. It will be easier to resolve the issue if the construction work is stopped before it gets to far along.

    #890106

    shlishi
    Member

    The Aruch Hashulchan in Choshen Mishpat 388 does NOT allow reporting it to the authorities.

    #890107

    AZOI.IS
    Participant

    Pizza,

    “temporary encroachment”?

    As in this world is our temporary dwelling?

    This is the foundation FOR MANY BRICKS TO COME…

    #890108

    ny100k
    Participant

    You don’t clarify if this is a temporary beam during construction, or one that will stay permanently.

    If it’s temporary, and the neighbor is frum, then you should just let it go, even though what they did was not so nice. Also keep in mind that they may not even realize it’s on your property or the contractor may have done it without them knowing.

    If however it’s permanent, then you need to take action. I suggest consulting your ruv about din torah vs. 311. While it may not be assur to call 311, assuming you live al pi tora, then you should consult a rav.

    #890109

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Apparently choppy doesn’t want to take care of this moser. Anyone else want to?

    The Wolf

    #890110

    choppy
    Participant

    A) Calling the police shut off an alarm blaring in the dead of the night is not mesira.

    B) You can only kill the moser before the mesira.

    C) One mustn’t kill a moser (when permissible/required) if it’ll endanger his freedom.

    #890111

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    A) Calling the police shut off an alarm blaring in the dead of the night is not mesira.

    Source? I cost the fellow money as his car was ticketed. If that’s not being moser the mammon of a yid, then I don’t know what is. The fact is that I did not go to a Rav or Bais Din before doing so.

    B) You can only kill the moser before the mesira.

    I find that hard to believe. You hear enough stories about mosrim being threatened well after the fact.

    C) One mustn’t kill a moser (when permissible/required) if it’ll endanger his freedom.

    Source? Do you also not have to perform a bris milah on your son if it might endanger your freedom?

    The wolf

    #890112

    choppy
    Participant

    Wolf: Logically, based on your above comments, you hold that if someone breaks into your home, you must convene a Beis Din rather than call the police. I’m not such a right-wing fanatic, so I disagree with your position.

    #890114

    yaakov doe
    Participant

    One must assume that this beam is only temporerilly on the writers property. In NYC there are front yard, side yard and rear yard requirements.

    #890115

    lesschumras
    Participant

    Choppy,shlisi

    The Satmar brothers have been slugging it out for years in court over their yerusha. No one has killed them

    #890116

    BaalSechel
    Participant

    I assume that everyone invoking the concept of moser is joking. Going to arkaos has nothing to do with mesira. It is a violation of “asher tosim lifneihem”.

    #890117

    147
    Participant

    choppy:- Taking a Yid to arkoyos (goyish court) is a massive aveira.

    I think that you Choppy are living in a dream world. In the ideal world you would be right, but in today’s contemporary society, Beth Din is not even an option. Lamentably, they are corrupt thru & thru, and time may also be of the essence.

    Do you Azolis belong to a Union? If so, your union may have a lawyer at a very reduced rate.

    You may also wish to study the very 1st Mishna & accompanying Talmud in Bobo Basra, which discusses this very topic & issue.

    With Parshas Ki Sovo literally around the corner, there is only 1 massive Aveiro that I can think of, and it is certainly not going to Arko’us, but simply being “Masig Gevul Re’Eihu” which is 1 of the 11 or 12 curses in Ki Sovo, depending on how these 11/12 curses are counted.

    Failing that, you may wish to consult a professional mediator or binding arbitration.

    #890118

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Logically, based on your above comments, you hold that if someone breaks into your home, you must convene a Beis Din rather than call the police.

    No, because someone breaking into your home is assumed to be willing to do you harm. That’s the whole point of the halacha of ba bamachteres.

    The Wolf

    #890119

    choppy
    Participant

    Goying to goyishe court without a heter from a beis din is a free ticket to gehenim.

    #890120

    Sam2
    Participant

    Choppy: That’s not what R’ Schachter says.

    Oh, and see the Tzitz Eliezer (it’s somewhere in the beginning of either 18 or 19; maybe it’s Siman 3 in one of those?).

    #890121

    ohr chodesh
    Member

    Halacha prohibits going to arkoyos even if the secular court would rule according to Halacha. So how does RHS negate that Halacha?

    #890122

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Going to goyishe court without a heter from a beis din is a free ticket to gehenim.

    Does this include Yerusha cases?

    #1480203

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    To all those warning of sins an prohibitions of using secular courts:
    Engaging an attorney does not mean this will go to court. Less than 10% of client activity results in a lawsuit.
    The OP should see a land use attorney. This specialist will draft and send a letter to the abutting landowner pointing out the civil laws and regulations that are being violated. Also, potential civil fines and liability in tort law if the offending act does not cease immediately. An offer to allow temporary trespass in exchange for compensation could be offered.

    #1480201

    yitzchokm
    Participant

    What ended up happening? It’s been 5 years.

    #1480220

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    While this is an old post

    What do people do if a Yid is blocking your driveway with their car

    Do you call the Beis Din or do you call the Police?

    #1480227

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Neither. I put a note on his windshield.

    #1480621

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    DY

    that doesnt help if you have to move your car now

    #1480639

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    DY

    that doesnt help if you have to move your car now

    Neither does calling the police. It usually takes hours until they come to give a ticket, and then hours until the tow truck comes.

    #1480343

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    I double park two family cars next to his car.

    #1480381

    yitzchokm
    Participant

    zahavasdad

    Blocking the driveway isn’t comparable. That’s a question of access

    #1480530

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    Put a “stop work order” on that property until its all sorted out. Bais din can not offer u this and its not mesira to have a stop work order filed.

    #1481862

    lesschumras
    Participant

    Someone who has the chutzpah to violate building and zoning codes and infringe on your property is probably not going to pay attention to a toothless beis din. He’s also not conforming to building permits , if he got one at all.

    #1482228

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    I might even be worse if a Shtebel was building an illegal building, not only would Beis not stop it, they might even repremand you for trying to stop construction

    #1482253

    Joseph
    Participant

    It is prohibited to utilize secular courts or authorities based upon an assumption the other party will not agree to go to Beis Din. One cannot go to secular court without first obtaining a heter arkaos.

    #1483243

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @joseph
    As I stated in my earlier post, using an attorney to compel compliance with laws and regulations does not mean going to court.
    A strongly worded letter pointing out the violations with a cc notice on the bottom showing Building and zoning enforcement agencies usually does the trick very quickly. One doesn’t actually have to cc those agencies.

    This winter our next door neighbor’s grandson (not Jewish) decided he was going to operate a plow business. He stored all his equipment in grandma’s backyard. Not only was it unsightly, but lots of middle of the night noise occurs when he hooks up plows, sand spreaders, etc. and leaved heavy diesel trucks idling in the yard.
    A phone call was ignored, I sent a letter showing the violations caused by storing commercial equipment and vehicles in a residential zone and marked CC Zoning Enforcement. Everything was cleared out within 4 days.

    #1483259

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    Put a “stop work order” on that property until its all sorted out. Bais din can not offer u this and its not mesira to have a stop work order filed..

    #1483268

    Joseph
    Participant

    It most certainly is mesira to get a government stop order.

    #1483449

    lesschumras
    Participant

    Joseph, your concept of mesirah is rooted in Czarist Russi. In the Pale of Settlement, no Jew could get fair treatment in the Russian court system. Conversely, the Beis Dins were effective and empowered to enforce their decisions. Consequently, Jews were forbidden to take another Jew to the governments courts.
    Contrast that to what we experience in the U.S. . Civil Court, despite their inadequacies, are not antisemitic and , generally speaking, Jew can get a fair shake .
    Beis dins, however, are toothless, powerless and have thier own inadequacies. Their decisions cannot be enforced. I’m sorry but if a frum neighbor is doing something wrong, I’m taking him to civil court

    #1483461

    Joseph
    Participant

    The concept of mesira is baked into the Torah and Halacha. It long predated Czarist Russia.

    #1483478

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    There could be very good reasons why someone would want a stop work order. Putting construction equipment on your property makes you liable for any damages that occur

    #1483475

    Phil
    Participant

    “It most certainly is mesira to get a government stop order.”

    Joseph,

    You’re not a posek, lawyer or expert in any subject. You occasionally repeat a bit of information from Rabbi Miller tapes and you constantly express disdain for any kind of secular study. Yet, you make emphatic halachic pronouncements about real-world situations and criticize people without any real knowledge or sources. Does spouting fake Halacha make you feel superior?

    #1483483

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Phil, you might be 100% right, but I’m curious as to why you didn’t level similar criticism against the posters who paskened that it’s muttar from their boichs.

    #1483489

    lesschumras
    Participant

    DY , I’m guessing it’s because unlike Joseph telling others what they can’t do, I’m only saying what I would do

    #1483496

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    First of all, your conclusion, that you would do it, is based a set of facts and halachic assumptions which are just as unsourced as Joseph’s.

    Secondly, you’re not the only one to post that it’s muttar.

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