AFTER MOSHIACH COMES: Will people die?

Home Coffeeroom Decaffeinated Coffee AFTER MOSHIACH COMES: Will people die?

Viewing 28 reply threads
  • Author
    Posts
  • #604671

    yekke2
    Participant

    Will people cease dying when Moshiach comes?

    If you know anything, do you have a mekor?

  • #893580

    Sam2
    Participant

    Yekke: The Rambam in the Moreh (dunno precisely where) says that they certainly will die afterwards. I’ve heard that others say no but have never seen it inside.

  • #893581

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Rambam:

    There is no difference between this world and the next except in our subservience to the nations.

    The Wolf

  • #893582

    shmoel
    Member

    Techiyas Hameisim will occur sometime after Moshiach. Until then people will still die. After techiyas hameisim no one will die anymore.

  • #893583

    yichusdik
    Participant

    Please recall that there are distinct epochs we are told about (with little enough detail to make it all mysterious) in the future.

    There is Yemos Hamoshiach, which we are arguably already in the first stages of, at least according to R’ Shlomo Zalman Auerbach and many others.

    There is the idea of Ketz Hayomim, the end of days, the conclusion of history, the fulfillment of the role of Am Yisroel in creation,

    There is the idea of tchiyas hameisim, the resurrection of the dead, which would happen around the time of ketz hayomim,

    And then there is the often confused concept of Olom Haboh, which in normative use refers to the reward a neshama gets after its temporal life is ended, but which has sometimes been conflated with some of the elements of our “end times”.

    The truth is that we know little enough and the only certainty we have of any of the details of it is in our bitochon.

  • #893584

    interjection
    Participant

    “The Rambam in the Moreh (dunno precisely where)”

    Is it by Hilchos Melachim or is that something else?

  • #893585

    Sam2
    Participant

    Shmoel: Once again, the Rambam does not agree to that.

  • #893586

    Git Meshige
    Participant

    Noone really knows what will be. There is one source that says the world will cease to exist after 6,000 years, a Gemorah somewhere. We are told that oilam habah is eternity so if noone dies after Moshiach comes, what happens to Oilam Haba ? There is so many unanswered questions and I dont think its in our place to start figuring these things out. Live life to the fullest, try to do the right things and Hashem will take care of the rest

  • #893587

    BaalSechel
    Participant

    It is a machlokes Rishonim. See Yeshaya 65:20, and the meforshim there (Rashi, Mahari Kara Radak) see also Beraishis Rabbah 26:2.

  • #893588

    Hil. Melachim 12:1

  • #893589

    rabbiofberlin
    Participant

    Rambam, hilchos melochim (note , this is part of the jad hachazokoh, a halacha sefer): perek 12 mishne 1 : “Do not think that there will be anything different in the “jemos hamoshiach”, or whether there will be any difference in the the “ways of the world’ (ma-ase bereishis), but the world will continue as always:” See rest of the mishne and the clear indication that the only difference in “jemos hamoshiach” will be in the fact that the Jewish people will be free of the rule of the gemtiles. This view is based on the words of Shmuel in Sanhedrin 91, who said “the only difference in “jemos hamoshiach’ will be “shibud malchyios”- the yoke of the gentiles”.

  • #893590

    vochindik
    Member

    Nothing being different sounds like a disbelief of techiyas hameisim.

  • #893591

    rabbiofberlin
    Participant

    vchindik- I am refraining from saying what I think of your remark. Just note there is gemoro , there is a Rambam and neither of these have anything to do with “techyias hamessim”. Please look at the thirteen “ani ma-amin”s ,generally considered the basis of our “emunah” and you will see that there are TWO

    ani ma-amin”s -one for “Bias Hamoshiach”, one for “Techyias hameessim”.

  • #893592

    shmoel
    Member

    Sam: Where does the Rambam say people will die after Techiyas Hameisim? I don’t remember that and it makes no sense. If people still die after techiyas hameisim, what’s the whole point of T”H?

  • #893593

    rebbi1
    Participant

    take a look at the ramchal in maamer hikarim (back of the Derech Hashem). He says that after mosiach comes “????? ???? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ?????”

  • #893594

    rabbiofberlin
    Participant

    rebbi1- your quote from the ramchal is confusing, I interpret it to say that people will live normally “bi-jemei hamoshiach” but when the time will come for “techiyas hameissim’ even those living then will die for one hour to qualify for “techyas hameissim” I will try to fidn the actual quoye in the sefer.

  • #893595

    yekke2
    Participant

    It does say in the Hagodo that ???? ???”? ???? ???? ????!

    But the question is: Is it possible to kill without a ???? ????? If i go and stab somebody, does that use the ???? ???? or my knife???

    In last week’s ????, [which prompted me to start the thread], the ???? says to institute three ??? ???? in the future – ????? ???. Even though you can say that when ???? comes it is not ????? ???, i don’t think that in ???? ??? it will be ???? to kill somebody. So the question remains:

    Is the ???? ???? responsible for all deaths or only natural ones?

  • #893596

    yekke2
    Participant

    Another proof can be found in .???? ? – it says that ???? is ????? — thinking that it means from the ???? ???. The ???? answers that it means ????? ????? ???? —- but apparently not from the ???? ???. That sounds like it is possible to kill somebody without the Angel of Death.

    Does anybody know either way?

  • #893597

    Sam2
    Participant

    Shmoel: The Rambam says that T’chiyas Hameisim only lasts a short time and is only for a few individuals who were nearly perfect in life but who didn’t have the time and ability to achieve a certain level in this world. Therefore they are given a second opportunity to reach that level.

  • #893598

    rabbiofberlin
    Participant

    yekke- just to remind you of what was said earlier- “jemos hamoshiach” (the days of Moshaich) are NOT the same as the days of ‘techyas hameissim”. The gemoro and the Rambam both say that the world will continue normally in “jemos hamoshiach”

    sam2- your words are astounding. techyas hameissim only for a few select people? cannot be !

  • #893599

    Sam2
    Participant

    rob: There’s a reason no one quotes the Rambam’s Shittah about T’chiyas Hameisim.

  • #893600

    rabbiofberlin
    Participant

    sam2= thanks for the prompt reply. Can you pinpoint where the Rambam says that? (surely not in the jad)

  • #893601

    Sam2
    Participant

    rob: It’s in the Moreh (and possibly also the Peirush Hamishnayos). I can try and find where later.

  • #893602

    musser zoger
    Member

    Sam2- There is a shita either Ramchal or Rambam that certain necessary people will have techias hameisim when mashiach comes.

    Techias Hameisim for all others will come at a later time.

  • #893603

    Sam2
    Participant

    mz: Honestly, that sounds like an apologetic explanation for the Rambam by someone who is uncomfortable with accepting what the Rambam actually means.

  • #893604

    MDshweks
    Participant

    The main machlokes is: The Ramba”m holds that the world of Neshamos is the final goal and end of Geulah process, not being in a body. But a lot of others, from the Ramba”n to Ramcha”l maintain that Tchias Hamaisim is the final stage.

    Then there are a lot of sub-machloksim that branch off from this. this takes volumes – not quite for a coffee room post.

    You can see the Sefer of Rabbi Kirzner (which I was priveledged to write from his tapes) – “Maoz Latom” Vol. 2.

  • #893605

    MDshweks
    Participant

    However, everyone agrees that the body won’t be the one we have now, but less ‘grub’ and more spiritual. and before that Hashem will distroy this world and remake it, and give Tzadikim new bodies.

    It’s a big subject…

  • #893606

    bubka
    Participant

    According to the (majority) shittos that most or everyone will return in techiyas hameisim, will everyone live forever after they return to the living during techiyas hameisim? Or will they die a second time? And if they die a second time, where will they go after their second death?

    And will the people still alive during techiyas hameisim die and return or simply just stick around?

  • #893607

    iced
    Member

    Everything can be. But no one really knows what will happen.

Viewing 28 reply threads
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to RSS Feed For This Article