April 12, 2018 6:03 pm at 6:03 pm #1505803
I am a 20 year old who started dating around 2 months ago. I often hear people say that the shidduch crisis is caused by the fact that boys are waiting until 23 to date and girls are starting at 19-20 to date which causes an age gap crisis. Whether this is true or not is irrelevant to this post. What is relevant to this post is that many girls will say no to going out with me simply for my age ( I know this is the reason because I am told outright) without doing any research about me. Almost every time I mention to someone that I am dating people make snarky comments about my age and Ive heard multiple girls refer to guys my age as being “just a baby” without judging the character. So my question is how real would you say age discrimination is for younger boys, and what can shadchanim, parents, and teachers do to change the idea that you should say no to a shidduch just because of the age?April 12, 2018 6:40 pm at 6:40 pm #1505840
People should be allowed to say no for whatever they want. A shidduch has to go through with both sides willing to go forward.April 12, 2018 7:36 pm at 7:36 pm #1505854
In Chabad bochurim generally do smicha before marriage. As my relative isn’t a learner type, he hadn’t done smicha. I think if he would have and also been consistent with Minyan etc the girls would considered him much more seriously. Incidentally, I know of another boy who was 20, not in Yeshiva as he wasn’t learning well, but serious frum boy who showed up to Minyan every morning, learned every day and worked. He got married at 20.April 12, 2018 7:37 pm at 7:37 pm #1505853
I think you need to ask yourself why you feel youre ready now and what you have to offer as far as showing you are a responsible frum boy. My relative thought he could marry a really good girl without making major effort because there are more girls than boys. Once he saw a girl and get family won’t just say yes, and if he wants a good girl he needs to make effort, he started taking his own responsibilities such as being consistent with Minyan, kovea itim etc allot more seriously, and he found his match rather quickly when he reentered the parsha at 21.April 12, 2018 7:37 pm at 7:37 pm #1505852
Hi I had a relative in the same boat. Once he turned 21 shadchanim and girls families took him allot more seriously and bh he got engaged to a wonderful girl! He also matured allot within the year which helped im sure.April 12, 2018 8:53 pm at 8:53 pm #1505864
The OP is proof that NASI has failed.April 12, 2018 11:35 pm at 11:35 pm #1505889
Sorry for what you are going that. If you are in a community where just about everyone does one thing and you are doing something else there will be people who will take that as a red flag and not look into it. If they are being redt enough shidduchim that may work for them. Whether right or wrong I think that’s how it is. Same with someone who works in a learning community or someone who goes to a different type of yeshiva.
It’s unfortunate that there isn’t more flexibility to allow for more differences after all some boys would be better off getting married at 20 and other and 23 and still others aren’t ready at 25.April 12, 2018 11:35 pm at 11:35 pm #1505887
See joe, he agrees with me
(i was about to put an emoji so u know im saying it with a smile but i dont really do that, forgot how to imply it tho)April 13, 2018 7:42 am at 7:42 am #1505918
I would definitely look into you. I do not discriminate by age.
I’m 20 right now, and I do believe that there are boys on my maturity level and age level. But, being in Israel I see plenty of boys around this age doing really stupid things, and the boys I meet who are older seem to have matured out a bit. But everyone is different, I would definitely look into your, get your resume, etc.
I’m just saying, it’s a strange world for us girls where one day you can get redt to a 20 year old and the next day to someone who is 27.April 13, 2018 7:42 am at 7:42 am #1505948
Nothing should b done. A person should b able to say no to a sandwich for whatever reason they want even if it wrong or makes no sense it is their right and their loss and if u don’t agree with their shitos maybe u don’t want to b involved with them either way. And yes the discrimination is real I experienced it #gotintheparsha@21 #notbecuzofnasi #stay strong #freedomtosaynoApril 13, 2018 11:51 am at 11:51 am #1506054
Thank you everyone for your replies! @Intheparsha Nasi had nothing to do with my decision either. In fact, I only just heard of them this week. I do feel I am ready for various reasons and I do agree with all the posters who said that it is the girls right to say no for whatever reason, including age. However, I do wonder if perhaps there is something that can be done to change the perception that all guys who start dating at age 20 or 21 have something wrong with them and are too immature to start, because there are plenty of girls who are very immature at that age as well. And yes, @intheparsha, I agree, if they don’t want to be involved simply for age without even taking steps to look at what is a potentially good idea is not someone I would want to date anyways, because I believe that is an immature reason to say no, but that’s just me.April 13, 2018 6:32 pm at 6:32 pm #1506206
@shoppinglist613 I completely glanced over your comment. My apologies. I 100% agree with the fact that most guys my age are not mature enough for marriage and haven’t fully thought out what they want to do. One of the reasons that I am now in part time yeshiva and not full time yeshiva is because of the fact that I want to get married and I need to have a way of supporting a family. If someone could afford to learn and is learning well, I am a big supporter of them staying in learning through marriage. That wasn’t going to work for me, and I thought it through and spoke it over with a rav.April 14, 2018 9:15 pm at 9:15 pm #1506227
Wow that’s impressive, the fact that you are 20 with a Rabbi. Do you know how many boys I get redt to who are 25 and have no Rabbi? Anyway, I hear you. I’m saying there are girls who would look into you, and if someone isn’t than they aren’t for you anyway.April 14, 2018 9:19 pm at 9:19 pm #1506223
In the Chasiddish world the bachrim get engaged at 18 or 19.
I have friends in the balabatish world who also I were 20 when they got engaged. Great marriages.
In Israel they also get married earlier.
I would say from my experience that a bachor can be rbe ready to get married at 20.
Whether or not there will be a girl that will agree to this in the Yeshvish world is most likely not.
If that is who you are and what you want, I would wait another year or more for sure.April 14, 2018 9:19 pm at 9:19 pm #1506224
You mentioned you are working part time and want to support your wife. This is very admirable!
I would say to again to wait because this is also what most girls who want working boys would want.
If you push your agenda too much you might get an unwelcome name in your community.
Find another goal to work on this next year so you will feel you are accomplishing.April 14, 2018 10:38 pm at 10:38 pm #1506297
For a lot of my life I was on my own making religious decisions, but for various reasons, I didn’t have a rav who I really felt comfortable with. Over the last couple of years, I found a rav I really connect and feel I can learn from. I can see why people don’t have a rav, but it’s not good. I wouldn’t say I am mature for having a rav but thank you anyways!
2 things I want to point out: The first is that the main reason I am in part time yeshiva is so I can also do college so I can have a degree and begin working a career job within the next couple of years. I happen to also work on the side, and I try to put some of that money away, but that is really so I have some spending money for the day to day costs of life. thing number 2 is that I am unclear by “If you push your agenda too much you might get an unwelcome name in your community.” It’s not like I am going around spreading my shittos about this topic. If someone wants to look into me, great. If not, also great. I just think that saying no simply for age without finding out more information is immature. On the point you made that I should “Find another goal to work on this next year so you will feel you are accomplishing.” I am plenty busy with learning, school, and my job. It’s not that I’m bored with life and have nothing to do. I just feel ready to start dating and get married and whenever that time comes, it comes.April 15, 2018 12:54 pm at 12:54 pm #1506416
If you are a 20 year old bochur you should ask family members, extended family members, and friends from different communities to set you up. As a bochur who started going out since I was 21 (23 now), you should stay away from formal singles events even if they list “20 and up”. you will feel like you at a Republican Convention, as many of the desperate singles will be many many years your senior. Your
Your chevrusa may have a sister or cousin for youApril 15, 2018 9:35 pm at 9:35 pm #1506661
May I be so bold as to suggest a shidduch between Neo-chossid and shopping613?April 15, 2018 11:04 pm at 11:04 pm #1506676
Don’t feel bad about the age discrimination. It’s not immature, or not taking your personality into account. Many girls prefer an older boy, just like they prefer a taller boy. This is why there will always be an age gap. Especially when most boys prefer a younger girl. I can go into the reasons for this if anyone is interested, but these are the facts. There are rules for attraction. It’s not just personality. Maybe if people paid more attention to the rules of nature, then we could work towards a better solution to the shidduch crisis. But I have a lot of respect for you for trying to get married young. I wish more people would do that. Trying to find a shidduch will make you more mature, as above posters have found, when reality hits you. If Nasi succeeds in getting boys to consider marriage earlier, it will be well worth it.April 15, 2018 11:39 pm at 11:39 pm #1506687
Rational Jew: “I can go into the reasons for this if anyone is interested”
I’m interested in hearing you go into this reason.
“if people paid more attention to the rules of nature”
Which rules are you referring to?
P.S. Well stated comment.April 16, 2018 8:22 am at 8:22 am #1506712
Thanks for making a suggestion!
I’m currently living in Israel and consider myself to be Chareidi, and I share a lot of opinions with Joseph.
I don’t have a smartphone, and I don’t want any secular media, in my house.
I’m not quite sure there’s any single people on the CR who share my ideaology…April 16, 2018 11:32 am at 11:32 am #1506896
Shopping613: Please put that unto your shidduch resume. I’ve B”H seen many singles find their bashert by associating their hashkofos with mine. 😂April 16, 2018 3:01 pm at 3:01 pm #1506997
It bothers me, but I can’t personally be mad at someone for wanting someone who is a certain age and me being 20 not fitting into that criteria. As shallow as it mind sound that I am going to want someone to look a certain way, so too someone else might want a guy who is a certain age so I realize that it isn’t me that they are saying no to, but rather my age. Also, I’d be lying if I were not to admit that starting at such a young age is a humbling experience, and that I can’t expect a yes from just anybody. As you mentioned, it makes me have to work even harder to show that I am mature, because I currently have my age working against me. But I do appreciate that you respect me trying to get married now because a lot of people try to put me down for it, but I can’t control what people are going to think, and the only thing I can control is myself. Hashem will take care of the rest.
@fivetownsmom- I appreciate the suggestion! However, while I definitely want to live in Israel one day, I am not going to drop what I am currently doing to go early. At the right time Imy”H.
@shopping613: Yeah, I am probably not chareidi enough. In America, I fall into the Right Wing Modern Orthodox-Modern yeshivish crowd. I don’t watch movies, tv, etc. but I am a proponent of internet usage with filters for educational purposes and whatnotApril 16, 2018 5:09 pm at 5:09 pm #1507036
I use internet with filters. Too.
In any case, I’m staying right here.April 18, 2018 7:19 am at 7:19 am #1508089
Thank you for your interest and your kind compliment.
In short, the natural female preference for an older, taller and stronger husband is the need for a man who can protect and provide for her. The Torah says “You will desire your husband, but he will dominate over you.”
Women are generally more attracted to men who are confident and have more money to support a family.
On the other hand, Hashem gave men a preference for younger women, since that means a greater chance for more children, besides giving a greater chance of being the dominant partner. Men are not as limited in that respect and can have children much later in life. Beauty is an indication of youth amongst other things.April 18, 2018 11:46 am at 11:46 am #1508291
Isn’t there a famous story of Reb Moshe telling a bochor that his Rebbetzin is taller than him, to encourage him to get engaged to a taller girl?April 22, 2018 11:20 am at 11:20 am #1509620
5TownsMom: What do you know of these 2 besides their age and coffee room habits? There is the famous story in the Gemara of the matrunisa who randomly paired up her servants with disastrous results!April 22, 2018 11:21 am at 11:21 am #1509520
You are expected to make money if you want female companionship. When they called you a baby, they really meant you haven’t earned female companionship.
You have to earn it!April 22, 2018 11:21 am at 11:21 am #1509576
Break your arrogance by dating an older woman. :^)April 22, 2018 11:23 am at 11:23 am #1509611
Be willing to go out with girls who are heavier and/or more “plain.”
Women who are good looking have a pre-disposition to be high-maintest and expect more money out of you for her to consider you to even breathe in her vicinity (What part of Bat Melech do you not understand?).
Rabbi Mordechai Dolinskey (shlit”a) wrote a book called “Don’t Judge A Book By Its Cover.” In it he says males make looks a huge priority not because they are baalei taivoh but because of self-esteem.
Just let go, find female who is a ballit middot AND observes the dictates of leading mainstream ultra-orthodox Rabbis (Who are the truly Orthodox), and is especially careful with the halachos of dress code. If she does not believe in that, its unimportant to her, or is not comfortable with that, then that is a conclusive indicator that she has fundamental issues with her emunah and its neccarilly infecting her learning and shmirat ha’mitzvot. Such a girl must daven to the Ribono shel Olam and seek the guidance of a legitimate Torah personality.
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