- This topic has 58 replies, 26 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 1 month ago by .
-
Posts
-
I’ve recently been looking into the age at which halacha says a man should get married. the gemara in kiddushin says the maximum age for marriage is 20, and after that, you’re sinning. this is brought down l’halacha by the rambam (in beg. of ishus) and shulchan aruch (in beg. of even haezer), who even say that one should be beaten! (rema disagrees).
I saw online quote a Maharshal somewhere who extends the maximum age to 24, but I’m not sure what is basis is, and we probably pasken against that anyway given that rambam/s”a disagree. Finally, while there might be a kulah for talmidei chachamim, how can anyone know if they fit in that category and deserve to wait? I certainly have no idea.
Given all these factors, how is it mutar that most frum men today wait until after 20 to get married? I understand that people feel they might not be ready. that’s irrelevant because the halacha is pashut, and in addition, plenty of chassidim get married pre-20 and seem okay.
this question is slightly personal, since I myself am a single over 20 who learns, but might not cotninue too long after marriage. any thoughts?
Unfortunately observance of this halacha has become lax.
Do what your rebbe advises.
I was 21 when I got married.
Yet again, a sinner. 🙁
The Wolf
“in addition, plenty of chassidim get married pre-20 and seem okay.”
This is because they are raised from birth in a way that they mature at a younger age & are therefore ready to marry & raise their own family when they are very young. versus regular people are not ready at 18 to marry.
They marry because that is what their society expects from them. Ready or not. They grow up fast. Like learning to swim by being thrown into deep end of pool.
MA: Then we, too, should raise our children to be mature and ready at that age. Halacha asks for no less.
They say that Rav Ahron held that someone who is learning can wait until 24 to start dating
Joseph
Sure remove all the tumah from your home including the unnecessary technology (fancy cell phones, ipads etc…)
Remove the tumah from your mind and raise your children in pure spiritual purity like they do. Anything which EVEN MIGHT cause their child to turn away C”V is not allowed in the house even for the parents. Can you handle this? For the sake of your children yiddishkeit? If you can and do raise them this way they definitely will be ready to marry by 18 or 20 the latest.
look in the shulchan aruch harav hilchos talmud torah about when one should get married. (spoiler: when you know tanach, shas, shulchan aruch, and midrash halacha) i haven’t seen it in a while so could be mistaken.
The chofetz Chaim held you can wait till 24 provided you’re learning is going well (and is not disrupted by taiva) and by getting married you won’t be able to learn as much. I’m assuming this only applies to full time learners
Life spans were a lot shorter back then.
For those pointing out shittas that you can wait to get married up to age 24 if you’re learning Torah full-time, okay. But what excuse is there for a) those who stopped being in full-time Limud Torah before 24 and b) those waiting past their 24th birthday even if learning?
“But what excuse is there for ….”
Getting married is not like picking up a loaf of bread. It can take a while to make a shidduch.
That reminds me of what my brother told me about getting married:
Hey MDG, you can any girl you please.
The problem is that you don’t please any.
Harsh words, but I could not be upset with the truth.
Getting married is not like picking up a loaf of bread.
Not true.
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/bread-theory-of-the-shidduch-crisis
Getting married is not like picking up a loaf of bread. It can take a while to make a shidduch.
That means one must start looking and be ready at an early enough age to be able to married by the halachicly necessary age. If starting at 23 means there is a good chance one wont be married by 24, obviously folks need to start earlier by however many years necessary to be compliant with the Shulchan Aruch or the latter shittos if engaged in full time Torah study.
Joseph: You assume that one can know how long it will take to find a Shidduch. That is a false assumption.
Sam: Since you are halachicly obligated to get married by age 20 according to the Shulchan Aruch (or according to some shittos by 24 if learning Torah full time) then you can’t start getting into the shidduch parsha for the first time at 19.5 and six months later say, hey, I tried. Obviously you need to give yourself enough time prior to the halachic deadline age to be married by so you can comply with that halachic obligation of yours. If it is reasonable to expect to find a shidduch within one year of starting to look, you need to look at least one year before you’re required to be married by. If, as more likely, you can reasonably expect the search might take longer than a year, then you need to start looking at least that much earlier.
Reb shienberg would always say if one is learning they can wait till 24.
Although I think everyone will agree the right age is when ur ready…
The Maharshal in Yam Shel Shlomo, Kiddushin 1:57 and the Chida in Birchei Yosef, EH 1:9.
The Ben Ish Chai held that in consideration of the fact that girls today are not as strong as they once were (when they got married at 11 or 12), girls should be at least 13 years old before marrying. [Sh”ut Rav Pe’alim II, Besod Yesharim 1, p. 119, col. 2]
Marrying today at 13 is illegal and can get you in alot of trouble including labeling you an “offender” and you have to register with the authorities . It will limit the places you can live among other consequences
That’s all I found so far. Three other posters above claimed the Chofetz Chaim, Rav Ahron Kotler and Rav Chaim Pinchus Scheinberg as purportedly permitting one to get married up to one’s 24th birthday if they’re learning Torah full-time. I hadn’t seen any authoritative sources from those rabbonim though.
I would have loved to have gotten married in my youth, but I was rarely ever able to get a second pegisha.
Between 3 and 72.5
ZD: New York State’s current marriage laws have provisions for getting married from age 14. (That’s the youngest.)
Joseph: Yes, but if you’re not ready to get married at 17 but you expect to need 3 years to try, then it is cruel, a waste of time, and possibly an Issur of Kreiva L’arayos to start dating before that time.
The real answer is that D’racheha Darchei Noam and that we know that HKBH did not expect us to get married if a person and/or his prospective spouse is not ready. Therefore we assume that these are not recommendations and end-all rules. Now, recommendations from major Poskim carry weight, but that doesn’t mean there is Halachic force. One is not Over an Issur for not being married past the age of 24. One is not Mevatel as Asei for not being married at that time. It’s not even a Chiyuv Mid’rabannan (though I am sure there are Poskim who do hold that it is a bona fide Chiyuv D’rabannan). It is a strong Eitzah Tovah. (Outside of Yerushalayim, where there used to be a Cherem on being a Bochur over the age of 20 but there no longer is such a thing.
DY, that thread was my finest time waster ever.
I think I’ll bump it.
Sam: I already said folks need to start preparing themselves (and their children) for marriage at earlier ages than is currently popular, in order to comply with our halachic obligations.
If the S”A says it is not only a halachic obligation but we actually beat the person if he doesn’t comply (granting the Rema disagrees about the beating), that is a pretty good indicator that this has strong halachic force. And the Rambam also paskens the Gemora as halacha.
The Chofetz Chaim in sefer Mitzvos HaKatzeir by the mitzvah of pru urvu says one who is learning can wait until 25 to GET MARRIED. Their are those who say that proper hishtadlus is to begin DATING a year before he would be required to GET MARRIED.
While age is a factor, as a child can’t have children, maturity is a larger factor. There is no class requirement to get married unlike driving which has both written and driving tests.
Part of the problem is that they have never been in a relationship they can break. The boy every zman may switch chavrusahs. The girl may have a rocky family relationship with her family resulting in a broken marriage.
If no one wants to marry you are you then supposed to force someone to or marry a goy so you do not “sin”?
Marry a goy? Huh?
It is not legal to get married in NY at age 14, There were a few states that you could get married at 15, but other states made that also illegal.
16 is the lowest in the US without any consequences
New York has provisions to legally get married at age 14. Massachusetts has a legal minimum age of 14 for males and 12 for females. And California has provisions for minors to get married without any minimum age set by law.
ZD,
Below is the law in NY, so it is incorrect to say that one cannot get married under 16 in NY.
Under 18:
If either you or your prospective spouse is under the age of 18 years, you are required to have written parental consent to obtain a Marriage License.
This is one of those clauses where in theory it might be legal, but no judge would ever agree to this. In practice it will never happen.
ZD: Why do you post things, on just about every thread you post to, that are widely inaccurate. First I post accurate information and you contradict it. I correct you and you again parrot the inaccurate information you already posted. Then you contradict yourself in the same post from one sentence to another. This is your modus operendi on every thread.
Not only can minors under the age of 16 get married in the State of New York (as well as the various other States) but it actually happens every year. Between 2000 and 2010 3,853 minors were married in New York State. In 2011 alone New York judges approved the marriages of a 14-year-old, a 15-year-old, another 15-year-old and another 15-year-old. In New Jersey between 1995 and 2012 178 marriages between ages 10 and 15 were approved by judges out of the 3,499 New Jersey marriages of those under 18.
I have a mind blowing novel concept. A man should look to get married when he is in the position to support a wife financially.
Men only become ready to support a wife financially when they get a job.
Halacha doesn’t make an exception to permit delaying marriage for financial reasons. Additionally, the standard of livelihood required is bare minimum. “Kach hi darkah shel Torah – pas b’melach tochal…” – bread, salt and water. If you have that, you have parnasah.
Yeah making enough money to pay the rent is a Luxury
What is the rent for the lowest cost basement studio apartment in a frum neighborhood?
If either you or your prospective spouse is under the age of 18 years, you are required to have written parental consent to obtain a Marriage License.
What if the parents are under 18 years of age?
In Brooklyn , a basement apartment starts at $1000
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.