Alternatives to BMG

Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 20 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1313395
    Joseph
    Participant

    During the age when most American Yeshiva bochorim go to Beis Medrash Govoha, a minority choose an alternative Beis Medrash. What would prompt or be a reason a bochor would choose a different Beis Medrash at that age? And who are the most popular alternative Yeshivos for them — and how are they different than BMG?

    #1313854
    iacisrmma
    Participant

    1. Rosh Yeshiva in EY tells talmid not to go to BMG.
    2. Might be in Rabbinical Seminary of America (i.e. Yeshiva Chafetz Chaim)
    3. Not accepted to BMG

    #1313857
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Reasons not to attend BMG:
    #1 No desire to live/study in NJ
    #2 Family (father/grandfather/uncles/Brothers/cousins) attended another Yeshiva and that’s where the boy will also attend
    #3 Family adheres to a particular Chassidus and boy will attend an affiliated Yeshiva
    #4 Parents wish boy to live at home and commute to Yeshiva car, bus, subway, walk)
    #5 Boy/Family wants boy to attend Yeshiva and College
    #6 Finances It may not be affordable for the boy or family for him to be at BMG
    #7 Boy attended a feeder High School for a yeshiva
    #8 Boy was not accepted

    None on my sons or grandsons attended BMG. They attended either the Yeshiva in Brooklyn I went to or the one Mrs. CTL’s father attended. My eldest grandson got a real thrill when he walked into shiur the first morning and found the room had a plaque by the entrance stating it had been donated by his great-grandparents.

    #1313873
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    1. Rosh Yeshiva in EY tells talmid not to go to BMG.

    That just shifts the question to the RY.

    2. Might be in Rabbinical Seminary of America

    Then BMG wasn’t a likely option to begin with.

    #1313880
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    #3 Family adheres to a particular Chassidus and boy will attend an affiliated Yeshiva

    See my response to iacisrmma regarding RSA.

    #6 Finances It may not be affordable for the boy or family for him to be at BMG

    They accept Pell grants.

    #7 Boy attended a feeder High School for a yeshiva
    </em

    This yeshivas are generally for younger bochurim than those who attend BMG. That being said, there are some yeshivos which do have a program for bochurim returning from Eretz Yisroel.

    Not accepted is a reason, perhaps wanting to stay closer to home occurs, but I think the number 1 reason would be wanting a smaller yeshiva, with athe opportunity to gain a kesher with the rosh hayeshiva.

    #1314137

    DY: 1. Rosh Yeshiva in EY tells talmid not to go to BMG.
    That just shifts the question to the RY.

    Maybe….but Joseph didn’t ask that. He asked why a certain bochur would choose another option. His RY told him not to.

    You also wrote: “but I think the number 1 reason would be wanting a smaller yeshiva, with athe opportunity to gain a kesher with the rosh hayeshiva.”

    I have personal experience with a certain RY in Eretz Yisroel (who has a reputation for knowing every bochur in his yeshiva) who prefers his talmidim not go to BMG due to its size. He feels that a smaller yeshiva will help the bochur be able to develop with the Rosh Yeshiva / Maggid Shiur.

    #1314168
    Joseph
    Participant

    DY’s point that if the RY suggests another Beis Medrash, indeed the question becomes why he so suggests that.

    Some reasons we’ve heard so far are:
    1. Desiring a closer kesher with the RY, and a smaller BM enables that.
    2. Wanting to be closer to home. (Presumably this is more relevant to those outside the New York metropolitan area.)
    3. Not being accepted to BMG.

    Some follow ups are:
    1. What are the advantages of going to BMG, for the majority that chooses to do so, despite the apparent greater difficulty of establishing a kesher – compared to a smaller BM.
    2. What reasons would BMG decline to accept a talmid.

    For the uninitiated, can someone describe the typical Yeshiva path for American bochorim starting immediately following their completing Mesivta, starting from first year Beis Medrash and going through marriage and Kollel?

    #1314305

    Joseph: I don’t know if there is a “typical” path. One of my son’s learnt in the Beis Medrash of the Yeshiva where he went to Mesivta. His “American” RY suggested that he and some other talmidim would do well in EY and made all the arrangements to have them accepted to a certain yeshiva. They all learnt in EY for 2-3 years. My son came back for one zman to BMG, was redd a shiiduch that was B”H successful and has returned to his yeshiva in EY.

    Another of my son’s also learnt out-of-NY for High School and went to Beis Medrash of the Yeshiva where he went to Mesivta. He then returned to NY and learnt in a Yeshiva in Queens (not Chofetz Chaim) for 3 years and then was hired by an out-of-town yeshiva as a dorm monitor/tutor.

    #1314327
    apushatayid
    Participant

    1. What are the advantages of going to BMG, for the majority that chooses to do so, despite the apparent greater difficulty of establishing a kesher – compared to a smaller BM.

    They can slip through the cracks, slack off and none would be the wiser, except for perhaps their chavrusah and some members of the chaburah they join, while maintaining the “image” needed for shidduchim.

    2. What reasons would BMG decline to accept a talmid.

    They see through the ruse.

    #1314330
    DaMoshe
    Participant

    I think the real question here should be “Why is BMG the default option?”
    I once had someone tell me he was going to BMG because “it’s the thing to do”. I asked him, “Is it the best place for you?” He said “I don’t know.”
    Having a big place which churns out products like a factory, with no thought to individuality within its ranks, is one of the biggest issues we have in the frum world today. We have a rule of chanoch l’naar al pi darko. Every person needs individual attention. We also have asei l’cha Rav – have a Rebbe! Do you think you get a real kesher with a Rebbe in BMG? I have 3 brothers who went through BMG, and none of them has a lasting kesher with their Rabbeim/Rosh Chaburah from there. One is still close with R’ Altusky (from Darchei) and one is still close with R’ Bender. The 3rd, as far as I know, isn’t as close with either one of them, but does have a kesher with his Rav. I see the same thing with many of my cousins who went through BMG – the Rebbe they’re close with, who they consider their main Rebbe, isn’t from BMG.

    #1314985
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    What would prompt or be a reason a bochor would choose a different Beis Medrash at that age?

    Because BMG would have been completely wrong for me and had I gone there, I would likely have ended up completely off the derech. (Yes, I know that some of you think that I am that way now anyway, but that’s your opinion, not mine).

    And who are the most popular alternative Yeshivos for them

    The one I went to was a small beis midrash and clearly not one of “the most popular alternatives.” But it was right for me in ways that BMG never could have been.

    The Wolf

    #1315006
    Joseph
    Participant

    Thank you for sharing.

    #1315354
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    For many bnai torah, the sheer size and complexity of the BMG network precludes the opportunity to enter into a personal relationship with a Rav/mentor and is simply overwhelming. It works for some but not others. Also, the BMG/Lakewood dependency culture is problematic for many families who want their children to have the opportunity to study in kollel for a few years but ultimately move on to a normal family life with one or both parents working for a parnassah while continuing torah study at some level.

    #1315332
    oyyoyyoy
    Participant

    Half the people i speak to say, “your so lucky you have a place besides BMG”. And the other half say, “why didn’t you go to BMG?”

    Many people go there just cuz everyone goes there. Either because why not, cuz theyll have guys/chaburah there, or they dont want to chvsh mess up their chances of getting married so they leave Hshem out of the picture and go to BMG

    #1315328
    huju
    Participant

    The goyim’s Ivy League has 7 colleges. Jews should have 8 elite yeshivas.

    #1315388
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Huju.

    The Ivy League has 8 colleges/universities.
    Please don’t refer to them as the goyim’s.
    Many Jews attend/attended these fine schools.
    I am a proud that University of Pennsylvania is my Alma Mater
    Other members: Harvard, Brown, Dartmouth, Yale (in my hometown), Columbia, Cornell, Princeton.

    The formerly all female colleges of similar caliber were known as the Seven Sisters (Radcliffe was affiliated with Harvard and Barnard with Columbia).
    In ancient times when I attended University of Pennsylvania, undergraduate men were in ‘the College’ females were in ‘The College for Women’ Wharton School of Finance was co-ed, the Schools of Nursing and Allied Medical Professions were all female. The Graduate schools were all co-ed.

    #1317021
    TheGoq
    Participant

    CTLAWYER whats wrong with New Jersey? I live here and am very content with my life here.

    #1317019
    HockPurposesOnly
    Participant

    You guys are forgetting the main reason why bochurim don’t wanna go to BMG- the freezer! Many guys love learning in Eretz Yisrael and only come back to America to date

    #1317484
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @TheGoQ

    What’s wrong with New Jersey?

    Let’s start with the Governor…who wanted the beach to himself and brought us Bridgegate.
    Then the lovely small while driving through Elizabeth

    My comment about not wanting to live in NJ, should not be taken to mean that I feel there is something wrong with NJ, but that not everyone wants to live in NJ.

    I’m 50 miles from Manhattan, and my sons went to Yeshiva in Brooklyn, that was far enough to travel when we wanted to see them. Mrs. CTL and I were not interested in schlepping to southern NJ to visit, or drive them back after they came home for a Shabbos, doctor’s appointment, etc.
    BTW>>>they went to the same Yeshiva I, my brothers, my father and uncles all attended. We were happy with the result, why would we send them elsewhere? (Especially since our family tradition is to learn a couple of years after high school, then university and professional school).

    #1317534
    Joseph
    Participant

    CTL, how many yeshivos were around in Brooklyn in your father’s day that are still operating?

Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 20 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.