June 11, 2018 5:59 pm at 5:59 pm #1537443
To start this is the headline
Insular Hasidic Jews struggle to preserve customs as legal and social pressures build
And I’m t goes on to say that Hasidic Jews in New York and New Jersey have the highest level of poverty in New York and New Jersey
Now imagine if this was said of any other ethnic group (blacks in Harlem) people would call the author a racist however since it is directed at the “despised nation” there are cricketsJune 11, 2018 6:58 pm at 6:58 pm #1537586
I’ve read the article. I don’t know that I’d call it anti-semitic. It seems to at least attempt to provide a balanced point of view.June 11, 2018 6:59 pm at 6:59 pm #1537584
excuse me, but what makes those comments comments anti-Semitic? KJ is the poorest village in the country. Jewish media runs stories all the time of rabbonim and rosh yeshivas railing against the effects of the internet on Yiddishkeit.June 11, 2018 7:00 pm at 7:00 pm #1537582
Eisav Sonei L’Yaakov.
Fox are the same Eisav’s as the Huffington Post and the New York Times.June 11, 2018 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #1537613
It’s worth noting to all of our posters who drool over any bad publicity for Chassidim: Goyim don’t realize there is a difference between Chassidim and other Chareidim; they use the term to describe everyone with a black hat.June 11, 2018 9:07 pm at 9:07 pm #1537629
No one sees anything wrong with the word “insular”?June 11, 2018 9:09 pm at 9:09 pm #1537638
Neville: Excellent point. I would go further in pointing out that goyim don’t know the difference between Ulta Orthodox and Modern Orthodox. So those thinking this is all about UO and Hasidim are fooling only themselves as to a goy a Jew is a Jew whether he’s UO or MO.June 11, 2018 9:09 pm at 9:09 pm #1537640
If you replace every instance in the Fox article of “Hasidim” and “Ultra Orthodox” with “blacks” or “Hispanics”, you’ll see how racist/anti-Semitic the article is. No media outlet would dare have written, even if 100% true, that exact same article — word for word — about blacks or Hispanics. Because they know they’d be denounced across the board as racists and would immediately be facing riots and boycotts.
But Jews are fair play regardless of racism; especially the “Jews’ Jews” (i.e. the Ultra Orthodox).June 12, 2018 3:46 am at 3:46 am #1537628
If a non jew opressing a jew is considered anti semitic, please tell me what you would call a frum jew oppressing his/her own kind?
What would you call a jew opressing a goy or non religious jew? There must be a term i would think. Or is it a one way street and open season for yiddin to opress others because you cant call them anti semites?June 12, 2018 7:49 am at 7:49 am #1537784
That was my exact thought regarding this threadJune 12, 2018 7:51 am at 7:51 am #1537780
“It’s worth noting to all of our posters who drool over any bad publicity for Chassidim: Goyim don’t realize there is a difference between Chassidim and other Chareidim; they use the term to describe everyone with a black hat.”
It’s also worth noting some yidden view all goyim as beer swilling cossacks.June 12, 2018 7:51 am at 7:51 am #1537781
So what. Why do we have to get so offened?June 12, 2018 8:59 am at 8:59 am #1537806
It’s because Jews are chill and most of us don’t get whiny when mentioned not in a positive light.June 12, 2018 9:00 am at 9:00 am #1537805
” Excellent point. I would go further in pointing out that goyim don’t know the difference between Ulta Orthodox and Modern Orthodox.”
you too make an excellent point. Thus you cannot blame the MO who protest/complain about those who may practice a lifestyle they view as a chilul Hashem and against the Torah. You can no longer argue that it is none of their buisness and it doesnt affect them.
(I dont mean “you” specifically I dont recall if you specifically made this argument, but many have, I’m using “you” collectively )June 12, 2018 10:28 am at 10:28 am #1537865
Whitecar, so when they go out into the world (college, job) and find out that there are some very decent non-Jews they will (as young people often do) decide that if that is a lie it’s all a lie. For starters, we should erase pejoratives like “shaigetz” and “shiksa”, which come form “shikutz”. Those who are not speaking in creole German should also eschew “shvartse”.June 12, 2018 10:29 am at 10:29 am #1537870
The “community” needs to find a new spokesman as the person they sent for the Fox News story was a foolish embarrassment. I am sure that the editing made him look worse but a good spokesperson understands that editing can be harmful and takes measures to account for it.June 12, 2018 10:29 am at 10:29 am #1537892
Sorry you cannot use the anti-Semitic card here. The fact of the matter is there are MAJOR problems in our community caused by leadership in our community. Per the usual frum response, Shooting the messenger (fox/yaffed) will not solve the problem.
Did any of you read the Yated Avraham Birnbaum article this past week. He says a lot of what Yaffed is saying but in a much more subtle tone.June 12, 2018 10:29 am at 10:29 am #1537908
Nobody has yet cited anything offensive from the article (which is not linked). It is not at all offensive to report on the (official) poverty level, and the same report about black people would not elicit even one word of protest. Everyone takes it for granted that poverty is common among black people, and nobody objects to anyone pointing this out.
Nor is “insular” at all offensive. On the contrary, to us it’s a point of honor. We are <i>proudly</i> insular, הן עם לבדד ישכון , and it’s one of our greatest and most cherished traits. Why should we be offended when others acknowledge it? I think those who object are secretly sorry for it and wish they were more assimilated with the nations.June 12, 2018 10:30 am at 10:30 am #1537939
Most if not all immigrant communities that have a strong identifiable cultural identity stick together in what can be seen as “insular” communities. It’s not exclusive to Jewish communities. It’s human natureJune 12, 2018 10:58 am at 10:58 am #1538007
Maybe u should be more concerned about google search rather then harping over a word like insular, which has zero negativity to it.
Go to your google search bar and type in as follows: why are orthodox jewsJune 12, 2018 10:59 am at 10:59 am #1538008
1. The article is not antisemitic but is anti-Hasidic.
2. The Google definition of “insular” in this context is “ignorant of or uninterested in cultures, ideas, or peoples outside one’s own experience.”
synonyms: narrow-minded, small-minded, inward-looking, parochial, provincial, small-town, shortsighted, hidebound, blinkered
It sounds pretty derogatory to me. People should know about other people’s cultures and ideas if they are going to live among them. It will help to alleviate friction and will enable them to better argue their positions (this is found frequently in the Gemara – lesheetatcha).
Having said that, the Hasidim interviewed did not defend the eruv properly. They should have pointed out that someone who is not looking hard for it will not even notice it.June 12, 2018 11:16 am at 11:16 am #1538036
Besalel: the community sent no spokesman. He’s self appointed, and IIRC when he ran for political office he lost for lack of community backing.
The article seems to be low on research, and one of the places it shows is the way they lump Chasidim and litvaks, or simply frum, together. And while we may all be similar, if it’s supposed to be an in depth look, this points to superficiality.
Some of my gripes are the way they explain an eruv, so far failing to mention that part of the reason for the exponential growth of the out of Brooklyn communities is that we are being priced out of Brooklyn (which may be a small antidote to the next phase when rich Hasidic landlords will be blamed for Brooklyn gentrification at the expense of minorities) THAT WE WANT FRESH AIR LIKE ALL SUBURBANITES and the way the article flowed from New Square to the rest of Monsey/Spring Valley area so that I had to reread it to realize new paragraph, broader focus infused with lingering negativity.
And of course the way the Ramapo School Board was depicted (with photo to illustrate – see how Jewish the board members are) as “diverting” funds when most of these same funds are coming from the Orthodox, but apparently they’re entitled to NOTHING.
So yes I’d label it anti-Semitic in its slant, but unfortunately largely fed by not so well meaning Jews.June 12, 2018 12:07 pm at 12:07 pm #1538058
The headline eerily reminds me of haman’s m’pefuzar u’mefurad shpiel
Btw the second installment (about smartphones and internet) is out today (at least they’re getting over with it quickly)June 12, 2018 12:08 pm at 12:08 pm #1538052
The first article of the three-part series, published yesterday, was “Insular Hasidic Jews struggle to preserve customs as legal and social pressures build”.
The second article, published today, is “Hasidic leaders sharply limit members’ web, smartphone use: ‘It’s like we’re in North Korea’”.June 12, 2018 12:12 pm at 12:12 pm #1538065
And AviK, you’re falling for the article hook line and sinker. Are you sure no one tried to mention the eruv’s almost invisibility yet it wasn’t reported? Reporters always cut…
And “Chasidim” interviewed didn’t defend it properly? Are you so sure the lawyer Yehudah Buchweitz is Chasidic? Well it doesn’t look like it to me… So of course the article is only against Chasidim, even those that probably look less Frum than you are crowned Chasidic. Not the greatest crime mind you, but at least OPEN YOUR EYES!June 12, 2018 12:19 pm at 12:19 pm #1538054
AviK: the reason or definition of Anti-semitism is “against Hashem” (hat tip IIRC Tachlis Magazine) and this definitely fits the bill. “Ten children” is thanks to Hashem’s first commandment, something we should be proud of and all aspire to. Yet look up the definition of “brood” which precedes it in that sentence, and it seems the children hatch like chickens. Maybe in Mitzrayim, but now we struggle with child bearing and raising our kids, we do it consciously and with self sacrifice and at the very least it shouldn’t be denigrated.
First they came for… is something you might want to have in mind, especially since as I already mentioned they are labeling all Frum Jews as Chasidim, no matter if it’s actullay so. Not all of the Jewish East Ramapo Central School Board Members are Chasidic, but you sure couldn’t tell from the article.June 12, 2018 12:24 pm at 12:24 pm #1538071
The article today specifically states that R’ Eytan Kobre, spokesman for the anti-Internet event at Citi Field, is Orthodox but not Hasidic. When it’s hard for us frum Jews to distinguish Hasidim from other Haredim by their appearance and lifestyle, we shouldn’t expect fine distinctions from Fox News.
The expansion of Haredi communities does present significant problems for public schools. If retirees suddenly took over a town, they would also have no interest in funding a school system which offers them no benefit.
Strange that all these ultra-organized ultra-Orthodox Jews couldn’t organize themselves a couple of decent spokesmen to offer intelligent arguments to the reporter.June 12, 2018 12:24 pm at 12:24 pm #1538074
You have no right to differentiate between different groups of Jews. Deriding one group of Jews, any group of Jews is anti-Semitic.
The article is full of lies and is anti-Semitic.June 12, 2018 2:40 pm at 2:40 pm #1538154
“Ten children” is thanks to Hashem’s first commandment, something we should be proud of and all aspire to. Yet look up the definition of “brood” which precedes it in that sentence, and it seems the children hatch like chickens. Maybe in Mitzrayim, but now we struggle with child bearing and raising our kids, we do it consciously and with self sacrifice and at the very least it shouldn’t be denigrated.
Dont forget that your own torah compares yiddin to the fish of the sea, yet you have isdure with someone comparing yiddin to chickens. Go figure!June 12, 2018 2:44 pm at 2:44 pm #1538176
The Fox News audience/target market is a more right wing and patriotic, pro assimilation crowd. Fox isn’t presenting a cultural study to open minded readers. They are highlighting another group of immigrants that soak up resources and dont want to join American society. And please don’t ignore the huge sums of money that go into market research, they know who is reading and what the reactions of their readers are. MSNBC readers may not view this (ongoing) series of articles problematic, but Fox readers don’t like “freeloaders”, and Fox is intentionally lighting a fire.June 12, 2018 5:25 pm at 5:25 pm #1538223
Takes2: what’s with the לכם ולא לו? I hope you’re kidding, but to clarify I wasn’t taking issue with chickens or any word on its own. The word brood is used a lot in Frum publications. It is, as I mentioned, the total negative slant of the article which is hard to deny. And my comment was directed to AviK and his fantasy of the article only being negative towards Chasidim and not our Torah and Frum Yidden as a whole.June 12, 2018 5:25 pm at 5:25 pm #1538252
That’s a perfect explanation for the article series. Or in netspeak, “+1”.June 12, 2018 5:28 pm at 5:28 pm #1538294
“but now we struggle with child bearing and raising our kids, we do it consciously and with self sacrifice and at the very least it shouldn’t be denigrated.”
The problem (in their view) is that it isnt done with just “self sacrifice” it isi alos done at the expense of the tax payer. How many children would they have if not for Section 8, SNAP etc (I’m not asking, they are).
If they had 10 children and didnt have 70% living in poverty, if it was in fact done with SELF sacrifice, then I doubt there would be much of an article,June 12, 2018 7:41 pm at 7:41 pm #1538359
The underlying sentiment of the article is that this community is pursuing their religious beliefs bu sending the “bill” to ALL the taxpayers. The implicit argument (which was probably not meant to be “anti-semitic”) is that you enjoy the freedom to pursue your religious beliefs but don’t have more kids than you can afford to support and in any event, get a job and pay your own way. We’ve heard that same set of arguments here on YWN and other jewish media outlets.June 12, 2018 7:41 pm at 7:41 pm #1538328
Back in Eastern Europe frum Jews were poor, but there was no welfare, so they had to work very hard just to survive. They had neither time nor money for luxuries such as smartphones and internet access.
It is a chillul Hashem for Jews to accept tzedakah from goyim.June 12, 2018 8:59 pm at 8:59 pm #1538378
K-cup – got it in one. Fox knows its customers/readers. “White” people don’t consider us properly “white.” To quote someone I knew growing up: “Jews are OK. They’re almost as good as white people.” And since we’re all supposed to be rich, why are we taking food stamps, Section 8, etc.? To quote an old Yiddishism: “A half truth is a whole lie.”June 12, 2018 9:02 pm at 9:02 pm #1538387
It’s not tzedokoh, it’s recouping a portion of our taxes. We don’t make the rules, but whatever they are at any given time we’re good at playing them to our advantage; we always have been, since Yaacov and Lovon, and there is no reason to be ashamed at it. The current rules are designed to encourage poverty, so on paper we’re “poor”; let them change the rules and we’ll change the way we organize our affairs.June 12, 2018 9:02 pm at 9:02 pm #1538389
Mamele explain your issue with לכם ולא..
I lost u there.
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