Anti Zionist demonstration planned in Barclays Center

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  • #1289796

    lesschumras
    Participant

    First, to Joseph. The terms Gail and Gasoline handprint, as you use them are meaningless. There was a time when calling someone with the honorific ” Hagoan” meant something because it was reserved for truly chashuvah Rabbis and Rosh yeshivas. However, as time went by, the term became commonplace and thus meaningless. That is what is happening with Gadol Hador. Everyone cannot be a Gadol or the term will become meaningless.

    With regard to the Asifa, what purpose is being served? Will the draft law be changed? No. Will bochrum who continue to register and follow the rules continue to get deferments? Yes. Will a considerable amount of money be spent on the Asifa that could have been put to better use supporting the impoverished families of bochrim learning in Israeli yeshivas? Yes

    #1289799

    mw13
    Participant

    GH:
    there is zero evidence these “rallies” serve any purpose other than to enrich those who provide logistical support with banners, sound systems etc

    The same can be said about the Israel Day Parade. But that’s just the way people are; we like to announce our beliefs and opinions to the world in the hope that it will somehow make a difference.

    That’s also why most of are here in the CR.

    #1289877

    lesschumras
    Participant

    Thanks to automatic word checking, gadol and gadol hador became Gail and gasoline. Sorry about that

    #1289875

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    The Lakewood Scoop has published that the letter signed by the Kinus people was a forgery

    It was signed by the Gabbi of Rav Malkiel Kotler , Rav Shmuel Lemberger

    While Links generally are not allowed, I think this one should be (The Mods can edit it out if they feel nessasary)

    Anyone who would forge a letter in the name of Gedolei Torah are Reshiam and there is no reason to belive them for anything

    #1289904

    browser
    Participant

    The irrefutable facts are that for the last 69 years this same law has been on the books “every young man who is a LEGITIMATE (key word legitimate) student in a recognized yeshiva is exempt from service,but only as long as you are learning,and you must REGISTER as soon as you turn 18,
    for the last 69 years EVERY FRUM 18 YEAR OLD REGISTERED
    For 69 years no one had a problem with this,not even the AIDAH HACHRAIDIS ,and everyone agreed if you don’t learn you must serve ,as a matter of fact Harav Pichas Epstein z’l the Rav av baisdin of the Aidah authored a sefer for frum soldiers in ZAHAL for all the pertinent HALACHOS pertinent while seving in the army.
    This so called demonstration has NOTHING to do with the draft,but everything to do with internal political fights inside Israel and pure unadulterated hatred towards Medinas Yisroel by some groups here in America
    CHAIM.S

    #1289883

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Anyone who would forge a letter in the name of Gedolei Torah are Reshiam and there is no reason to belive them for anything

    Do you know who did it?

    #1289913

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    I dont know who did it, but unlike Joseph’s quip who claimed only 4 people saw it it seems quite a few did. Relatives in lakewood told me they heard that the Yeshiva was somehow involved and they got the message it was a forgery through their own systems (They dont have internet)

    If Rav Kotler needed to send out that the letter was a forgery it must have been that quite a few people saw it

    #1289946

    apushatayid
    Participant

    It should be pointed out, that the event in the barclay center is neither a demonstration or anti zionist. Although to be sure, there will be plenty of demonstrators and anti zionists at the event pushing their own agendas.

    #1289959

    Dr. E
    Participant

    Apustayid:

    Thanks for clarifying. I’m sure that the press and our enemies will fully understand the subtle nafka mina you are presenting.

    #1290033

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    There is the law of unintended consequences. When you do something it might have an effect other than what you intended. Anytime you run something especially something more controversial you need to try to be aware of it especially if there is strong evidence something else might occur

    #1290070

    apushatayid
    Participant

    Dr.E. I am not making the case for, or against this gathering. (As Zdad pointed out a lot clearer, and more succinctly than I did). The intentions and goals of the organizers must be plainly and clearly spelled out for all attendees (and outsiders) . Otherwise, like this site, the press will be reporting about an anti zionist demonstration at the barclay center, which is not what the organizers are trying to hold.

    #1290076

    DaMoshe
    Participant

    Unfortunately, people forge piskei halachah from Rabbonim all the time. Just look at the walls in Bnei Brak, Yerushalayim, etc.
    My Rav likes to tell over how he once went to ask R’ Elyashiv zt”l a shailah. There had been a sign on the wall regarding the issue, which paskened that it was not allowed. My Rav asked the shailah, and R’ Elyashiv told him it was permissible. My Rav asked if he was sure, as there were signs up saying that R’ Elyashiv held the opposite. R’ Elyashiv responded, “You pasken from a wall?!?!”

    #1290083

    Dr. E
    Participant

    Apushtayid:

    Really? And how would you articulate the substance and tone of this protest to those young people in Israel who are both learning in Yeshiva and doing IDF service. I would be happy to pass any such lomdus on to my cousins who find themselves in that scenario.

    #1290090

    Joseph
    Participant

    From what I hear there will be a live hookup to multiple cities across the US, Canada and Europe during this Asifa with masses of Gedolim and Bnei Torah around the world able to participate at designated locations if they aren’t able to be in New York.

    #1290104

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Most Live hookups are via the internet via streaming services

    #1290105

    Joseph
    Participant

    Klal Yisroel will be attending the Asifa on Sunday, led by the gedolei rabbonim shlita, to stand with Acheinu Bnei Yisroel in Eretz HaKodesh as they stand under threat by the government authorities.

    #1290674

    apushatayid
    Participant

    “And how would you articulate the substance and tone of this protest”

    1: It is not a protest.
    2: I will not be at Barclay Center this sunday because my Rebbe is encouraging everyone to stay in the Beis Medrash and learn.
    3: I too have cousins and nephews in the IDF. I have no problems explaining to them the stated goals of the organizers as I understand it explained in advertisements taken out in local Brooklyn, NY paper.
    4: That an event promoted and advertised to thousands of people will attract crazies, people with their own agendas and even those whose agenda is diametrically opposed to that of the organizers, I have no doubt.
    5: Why are you getting all bent out of shape over this event at Barclay Center?

    #1290748

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    The asifa has been cancelled

    #1290752

    oyyoyyoy
    Participant

    Seems about right apushatayid.

    Dr E. (and y’all out there with similar feelings)
    ” I would be happy to pass any such lomdus on to my cousins who find themselves in that scenario.”

    Can we please try to take this event as it is by itself, unrelated to past feelings towards this rabbi or hashkafa or that asifa or whatnot please? I understand that as normal rational human beings we look at everything as a whole wider picture and usually may have unease regarding subjects that come extremely close to sensitive subjects in our hearts. But, if what the FJJ letter says is true – by rabbonim that are respected in america and slightly more moderate than the chareidi rabbonim in israel – maybe this problem is a problem?

    #1292747

    golfer
    Participant

    Nu?
    Is there an asifa today in Barclays center?

    #1292932

    Kotlorism
    Participant

    Colossal epic failure heading to Barclay’s center today.

    As I said, this has nothign to do with any draft whatsoever. There is no draft. Any Yeshiva Bochur who is sitting and learning was never taken to the army, and anyone (and I mean anyone – including the irreligious lowlifes in Tel Aviv) who signs up at the induction center and gets their deferment has no problem. Everyone does this from Satmar to every yeshiva.

    This even was 100% from begining to end orchestrated by the evil people running the Peleg Yerushalmi. This is 100% hatred towards the Manhig Hador Maran Rav Shteinman. The worst part is that these Reshoyim have convinced a few Litvish Rabbonim in America that they are drafting thousands of Sefardi yeshiva Bochrim to the army. What a pack of lies. Chacham Sholom Cohen (the senior Sefardi Gadol in the world today) wrote a letter last week denying that this is taking place. What a huge chillul hashem and bizayon talmidei chachomim.

    The eldely Rosh yeshiva in Flatbush was had bigtime. Simply appalling and stunning. meanwhile, the heter meah rabbonim runs off to scurry away in the darkness. Into hiding you go.

    The other losers are the Satmar (Zaly faction). They were so excited that finally Litvish people joined their “Shita” when in fact that is far from the case. They will never begin to underdstand that this is a 50 year machlokes in Ponavezh and this has nothign to do with a draft issue. What idiots.

    They will fill the stadium up with Satmar Buuuuchrim and maybe one or two loser Litvish people looking for action. The table in Lakewood selling tickets had around 7 people buy tickets.

    What a Churban they caused. Such reshoyim. The kavod of Hagaon HaRav Shmeul Auerbach they destroyed. Disgusting.

    #1292974

    bmyer
    Participant

    ” The worst part is that these Reshoyim have convinced a few Litvish Rabbonim in America”

    You obviously have NO IDEA what a gadol is..if you think they could get “convinced” by a few “reshoyim”.

    “The eldely Rosh yeshiva in Flatbush was had bigtime.”

    I cannot understand how you can have the audacity to say that one of the gadolay hador was “had bigtime” if I were you I would be very careful what I said because messing with gedolim is very dangerous and gehenom is very hot…

    #1293105

    Kotlorism
    Participant

    Sure enough…. This event was nothing about a draft. This was one big fat anti-Israel protest. A regular Satmar protest. Nothing more and nothing less. 14,000 people. 13,995 Satmar Chassidim, 3 Litvish Roshei Yeshiva and 2 bochrim.

    We were privlidged to hear from the spokesperson of the terrorist organization Neturei Karta, Mr. Shapiro – who spoke in English.

    What a joke.

    The Peleg didn’t even make an attempt to make their case. Nothing. No facts. What a bunch of bunk.

    #1293143

    oyyoyyoy
    Participant

    Yup, we get it. You love spewing poisonous hate and starting controversy. Just like the stupid ezras noshim story you posted to stir that pot. You with ur chillul hashem nonsense like thats foremost on your mind. Dont you realize youre the one that’s been had?
    You make it sound like this truly bothers you to ur core yet you cant understand a kanoy. Im curious what would happen if you turned your negative eyes towards the mirror.

    #1293168

    interjection
    Participant

    I was curious to know what this event was all about so I googled Barclay anti Zionist event and only a handful of articles showed up. One of them was written by “Israel vs Judaism” and it was sick and full of lies with a few half-truths thrown in.

    #1293426

    The event took place yesterday. The place was very full. There was speeches from various rabbis for about 4.5 hours. More people were listening in via live steam. I do not know where it was available.

    #1293436

    apushatayid
    Participant

    “There was speeches from various rabbis for about 4.5 hours”

    So, what is the message of those 4.5 hours of speeches?

    #1293447

    Joseph
    Participant

    Rav Aharon Schechter shlita, the Satmar Rebbe shlita, Rav Yaakov Shapiro shlita and many other rabbonim spoke poignantly and very well.

    #1293480

    apushatayid
    Participant

    The question was not, how well did they speak. The question was, what was their message.

    #1293453

    Joseph
    Participant

    “So, what is the message of those 4.5 hours of speeches?”

    To resist the Zionist government secular indoctrination and military draft of even a single, even weak, frum Yid. (If you insist on the impossible, to summarize the message of over a dozen gedolei yisroel shlita [litvish, chasidish and sefardish] from America and Eretz Yisroel in a sentence.)

    #1293580

    Kotlorism
    Participant

    “Rav Aharon Schechter shlita, the Satmar Rebbe shlita, Rav Yaakov Shapiro shlita and many other rabbonim spoke poignantly and very well.”

    Typically, Joseph calls the leader of the violent terrorist organization Yaakov Shapiro a “Rav” and “shlita”. YouTube him and your stomach will turn.

    And sorry Joseph, but your Rosh yeshiva spoke horribly. Watch the video. if anyone can tell us what he said, we would be thrilled because thus far, no one was able to decipher his speech. it made absolutely no sense. All we heard was “NOBILITY!!!!!!!!!!!!” And the “Tz-uh-vuh”.

    Epic fail all around for this event. Was no different than any other Satmar anti-Israeli event in Manhattan or D.C. where they yell the “vai geshrai” Foueeeeeeyyyyyy! Foi! Foi! Foi!

    The worst was Hillel Weinberger was given a huge platform. this is the lowlife that publicaly defamed the gadol hador Maran Harav Shteinman in public, while not a word of protest was made. Rav Aron Schechter, And Rav Asher Kalmanowitz (the only two litvish Rosh yeshiva there) proudly shared a dayis with this vile rasha.

    Watch this video and your stomach will turn.

    #1293670

    mw13
    Participant

    If the speakers at this event included a Rabbi from NK and this individual who has no problem being mevazeh the Gadol HaDor R’ Shteinman, I’m quite glad that I didn’t go to this event.

    (Not that I support anything Kotlorism says – the issur of being mevazeh talmidai chachomim goes both ways.)

    #1293997

    Kotlorism
    Participant

    IN case you will deny that Weinberger spoke, I have attached a photo.

    An explanation and apology from the 2 Litvish Roshei yeshiva who attended why they shared a dayis with such an evil man is in order.

    #1294000

    Kotlorism
    Participant

    Watch the hateful speech from Shapiro, the leader of the terrorist organization Neturei karta speak in English. Your blood might boil.

    His speech starts at 1 hour and 10 minutes into the video:

    #1294205

    besimchah
    Participant

    Totally not shameful at all!!!!!
    Do you speak English????

    #1294214

    oyyoyyoy
    Participant

    mal’ig on big people guess the onesh???
    tzoeh rosachas! ding! ding! ding! you win!

    “An explanation and apology from the 2 Litvish Roshei yeshiva who attended why they shared a dayis with such an evil man is in order.”
    they decided this matter is of enough importance possibly? they put a lot of thought into whether they would go.

    I like how you double down on your shitah that heter meah rabbanim is a problem. Now everyone knows you dont care if your venomous words makes sense, as long as theres hate you’l say it. Ein shum yiush you can still do tshuvah.

    #1294236

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Joseph which Satmar Rebbe Spoke?

    It was boycotted by one of them. How are us such little people supposed to know which one of them is the Gadol and which one is the Apikoras?

    #1294242

    Joseph
    Participant

    The one that sat right next to Rav Aharon Schechter in the center of the dais.

    #1294251

    ZD
    Rabbi Zalmen Leib Teitelbaum aka Rav of Satmar Williamsburg spoke.

    #1294258

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    The Satmar Rebbe Rav Aharon Teitlebaum said it was assur to attend the asifa and boycotted it and forbid his followers from going

    #1294606

    apushatayid
    Participant

    If the gathering had a purpose, it is fair to assume that in the course of 4.5 hours the speakers would have clarified what it was. The takeway from the Asifa after 4.5 hours of speeches is….?

    #1294618

    Joseph
    Participant

    That we need to be prepared to go to jail and, if necessary, be physically beaten by the government authorities if that’s what it takes refusing to join their military and take us away from our Torah HaKedosha.

    And for those outside Eretz Yisroel, raise the alarm in the international community among our local legislative representatives and national leaders to the harm the Israeli government is inflicting upon religious Jewish residents of the Holy Land.

    And for everyone to daven and learn in the zchus that the gezeira ra is overturned. And be aware of what our brethren in Eretz HaKodesh are facing.

    #1294626

    zaltzvasser
    Participant

    I vote that this thread, which is full of lashon hara and bizayon to talmidei chachomim, be closed immediately. It is purposeless and damaging.

    #1294649

    Kotlorism
    Participant

    Joseph – you wrote this last week:

    I’ve already made extra contributions last week to Yeshiva Gedolah Zichron Moshe of South Fallsburg, Congregation Yetev Lev D’Satmar and Yeshiva Rabbeinu Chaim Berlin to support their efforts in organizing and bussing their talmidim and yungerleit to this Asifa.

    Once I find out the other sponsors and supporters I’ll make those additional contributions accordingly.

    Just wondering… besides Chain Berlin no one else attended. Not even Bochrim from Chaim Berlin…. who else did you write checks to? Did you cancel your check to Fallsburg Yeshiva?

    Where was the Gadol Hador Hagaon Harav Shmuel Kaminetzky? Hagaon Harav Dovid Feinstein? Rav Reuven Feinstein, Rav Yeruchim Olson, Rav Yisroel Neuman, Rav Dovid Schustal, Rav Shlomo Feivel Schustal, Rav Yudi Svei, Rav Kalman Epstein, Rav Elya Brudny, Rav Busel, Rav Eichenstein, ARav Aron Feldman, Rav Malkiel Kotler, Rav Meir Stern, Rav Yitzchok Sorotzkin, Rav Elya Sorotzkin, Torah Temima, Long Beach, Novaminsk, Riverdale, Patterson, Bayonne, Ner Yisroel, Chifetz Chaim, Yeshiva of Far Rockaway, Shor Yoshuv, Bais hatalmud, the more than 100 yeshivas in Lakewood etc etc etc etc?!?!?!?!

    Did you see the retraction letter from the Novaminsker Rebbe?

    #1294663

    Joseph
    Participant

    None of them, to my knowledge, opposed it. They all could be supportive even if they don’t attend. Just because you support a cause doesn’t necessarily mean you can physically come, as you might have other responsibilities at the time that you feel take precedence. Such as Limud HaTorah, for example.

    Otherwise, gedolei yisroel such as Rav Aharon felt it so important that not only do they support it morally they felt they had to close their Gemorah and actually come to make a statement. Not every godol necessarily agrees how to treat the same causes they support. Or the other Gedolim could easily have determined between themselves that Rav Aharon, could represent them all as he’s the senior godol on the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah and Rosh Yeshiva in America.

    And if you do find a godol or two who is officially on the record as having opposed the event? (I’m not sure any such exist, but maybe there’s a couple out there.) So what. Gedolim always have differences of opinion between themselves. Even when they might all oppose Zionism, they might have different approaches on how to fight it. Openly or quietly. Loudly or more tamed. Publicly or privately. Etc.

    But in this case while there are scores and scores of Gedolim who officially and on the record supported the actual protest, I don’t know of even a single one on the record as opposing it. (And I’m not referencing those that only issued a letter saying that a previous letter in their name was a forgery. That doesn’t indicate one way or another if they support or oppose the event. Nor does it indicate the forgery itself wasn’t made by lay opponents of the event to make supporters look bad when they “discovered” the forgery.) If you know any on the record as opposing it, share with us that official statement of theirs. But that doesn’t change anything I wrote.

    #1294668

    Joseph
    Participant

    What’s the deal with you one day severely impugning Rav Kotler shlita, and even using your nick to mock him, and today suddenly your using his name to ostensibly support your point?

    #1294662

    mms601
    Participant

    My yiddish is not good, but I can’t see how anyone could disagree with two English and Hebrew speeches which I was able to understand.

    #1294676

    golfer
    Participant

    So there was an asifa at Barclays center.
    Some people in the coffee room have taken note of that.
    What I’d like to know is-
    Why is there no mention of this gathering of a few thousand Jews in the heart of our biggest population center on the yeshivaworld main news page?
    Did I miss it?
    Are they ignoring it?
    Is there a reason?

    #1294682

    shuali
    Participant

    @mms601: Exactly. Very perceptive. This was NOT a political rally. The two “litvisheh” Roshei Yesivah who supported the rally are strongly aligned with, and supportive of, the ideals of Agudah, and certainly continue to respect the opinion of Rav Aharon Leib shlita, much like the Brisker Rav worked closely with Rav Shlomo Lorenz (MK), yet fought tirelessly against the drafting of women (men systematically were granted deferments as per the “status quo”). Now, however, as the current law stands, men will no longer be so easily patur.
    Deferments will be a thing of the past, and the Torah world as we know it in Eretz Yisroel will be changed forever, if it will even exist. Those G-d fearing individuals who have chosen to serve are finding themselves being stripped of their rights to observe the Torah and their traditions (beards, separate barracks, no kol isha, etc.) Soon – by 2020 as the law stands now – few, if anyone, will choose to serve, as they will be taken to serve even against their will and even if the numbers don’t really require it. That is what the rally was about. To make everyone aware of the danger. How to address the problem? That remains for each person in Eretz Yisroel to find out what their leader(s) say. We must simply be aware that our brothers (regardless of what kind of yarmulka we or they wear, and regardless what nusach they daven, what Yeshiva they attended, or what color their tzitzis are) are in mortal and spiritual danger.

    #1294684

    Kotlorism
    Participant

    Joseph and his lies…

    “Rav Aharon, could represent them all as he’s the senior godol on the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah and Rosh Yeshiva in America.”

    Rav Shmuel Kaminetzky is the senior Rosh Yeshiva in America (by about 8 years)..and the Novaminsker Rebbe is the Rosh Agudath Israel.

    And he represented himself and only himself. And you know that Joseph. Your just making a fool out of yourself after you said last week that the place would be packed with Bnei Torah. There were 7 Litvish bochrim there. Stop with your Neturei Karta pack of lies.

    This was an attempted lynching of the Gadol Hador which boruch hashem failed miserably.

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