Are you sure you lit the menora?

Home Coffeeroom Yom Tov Chanukah Are you sure you lit the menora?

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  • #607401

    longarekel
    Member

    Did YOU light outside? If not, why not? (if it’s not dangerous in your neighborhood). The gemara, rif, rambam, rosh, shulchan aruch,etc. clearly say the mitzva is to light outside. So why did YOU not perform the mitzva of lighting neiros chanuka?

    #914761

    Brony
    Participant

    *Ring Ring Ring*

    (‘;’)): “Hello?”

    (-.-)): Did YOU light outside? If not, why not? (if it’s not dangerous in your neighborhood). The gemara, rif, rambam, rosh, shulchan aruch,etc. clearly say the mitzva is to light outside. So why did YOU not perform the mitzva of lighting neiros chanuka?

    (‘;’)): “G-d? Is that you!?!”

    (-.-)): “No, it’s longarekel.”

    (‘;’)) …

    #914762

    shmendrick
    Member

    If I would light outside, there is a chashash that I would soon join those who do public menorah lighting. We must not do anything that resembles that new hanhoga (chodosh is ossur min hatorah), even if it means abrogating from our Rishonim and poskim.

    Let them light in the town square on monstrous sized menorahs while we continue to light in the window as yidden always did. If you disagree, go to the town square for your hadlokah osa mitzvah.

    Ashreinu mah tov chelkaynu, that we continue to keep our minhogim following the steps of previous doros – al titosh toras imecha.

    #914763

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Ayin Biur HaGr”a

    #914764

    rabbi_dr
    Member

    Well said brony

    #914765

    OneOfMany
    Member

    lol @ Brony

    #914766

    Toi
    Participant

    actually, ayin the ittur and or zaruah.

    #914767

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Toi,

    That’s a far cry from saying you’re not yotzei. The Ittur and the Or Zarua are acknowledging that the minhag remained; the Or Zarua doesn’t know why, but doesn’t explcitly say to change, the Ittur says it’s preferable to light outside, but clearly you’re yotzei inside, and the Gaon is mashma that the minhag still remains.

    I have no problem with someone lighting outside. I do have a problem with someone casting aspersions on those who light inside, which, at least in ch”l, is the predominant minhag and obviously has been since the sha’as sakana.

    #914768

    2scents
    Participant

    What do you mean by dangerous?

    I know of someone that used to light outside, he once woke up to find out that his entire family’s menora’s were no longer there.

    no longer does he light outside.

    #914769

    longarekel
    Member

    Hello Brony, rabbi dr, and OneOfMany, this is longarekel calling with a friendly reminder to light chanuka lights outside as stated clearly in Halacha. Yes, it is my business because kol yisrael areivim. Please conform with Halacha before God Himself gives you a call or decides to pay you a visit. You don’t want that. WE don’t want that. Wishing you a lot of hatzlacha and bracha and may we always be zoche to fulfill God’s will in the proper fashion. Goodbye.

    #914770

    longarekel -“fulfill God’s will in the proper fashion”. You do know that Neiros Chanuka is d’rabonon, right? (And please don’t get started on lo sosuru etc., you really don’t want to go there with me…)

    #914771

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    Rabbenu Perachia (Shabbos 21b) cites R’ Hai Gaon as saying that if the candles will go out due to wind or rain it is no different than sha’as hasakanah. The Ritva says the same thing. I haven’t seen anyone who argues.

    #914772

    Kozov
    Member

    “You do know that Neiros Chanuka is d’rabonon, right”

    It is still God’s will.

    #914773

    147
    Participant

    In have never lit a Menorah. Only thge Kohen at the Bais haMikdosh [or at the Mishkon] has ever lit a Menorah.

    But I have lit a Chanukiyah 8 times each year.

    #914774

    longarekel
    Member

    yitayningwut: I’m talking about when it will stay lit.

    just my hapence: what kozov said.

    147: Notice I never used the word menora. chanukiya is a modern fabrication.

    #914775

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    longarekel – You asked why I don’t light outside. Where I am located in the tri-state area, a candle lit outside will not remain lit for a long period of time. My answer is sufficient for the majority of CR members as well.

    #914776

    longarekel
    Member

    I light outside in a box with glass walls, especially constructed for this purpose. I think you can get one at any good judaica store. In Eretz Yisrael it is very common. I actually got mine there.

    #914777

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    Why do you consider that lighting outside, any more than inside the house at the glass window? Also, more importantly, this is a new invention that didn’t exist in the times of Chazal (clear glass wasn’t really around until the last 200 years). Who says something they didn’t anticipate can turn the time from sha’as hasakana back to regular?

    #914778

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Longarekel,

    You used the word menora in the title, which is fine. If the term is good enough for the Mishnah Berurah, it’s good enough for me.

    #914779

    longarekel
    Member

    yitayningwut: The sources clearly say “at the doorway of the house, outside, within a tefach of the doorway”. There are reasons why davka there. Glass is mentioned in mishnayos (especially seder taharos) and I have no reason to assume it was colored. Anyway it can be quite windy in Eretz Yisrael, even more so than in the U.S. in some places (like Yerushalayim, on a hill, for example). I’m sure they figured out how to do it. (Agav, my shamash was outside the box and lit for six hours without a problem. Of course that may not work for everyone.)

    DaasYochid: I agree with you. I tried to be careful with the wording

    EDITED

    I guess I wasn’t thorough enough.

    #914780

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    Glass is mentioned in mishnayos (especially seder taharos) and I have no reason to assume it was colored.

    Ayin Google and Wikipedia. They had glass in the days of Chazal but it was opaque, not clear. Clear glass was developed in the 9th century and on, and even then it wasn’t the standard in windows until the last 200 years; really until 1902.

    #914781

    Longarekel, kozov – like I said, please don’t get me started on ‘lo sosur’.

    #914782

    mik5
    Participant

    the minhag is chutz la’aretz is to light indoors.

    #914783

    R.T.
    Member

    147: I said the same thing myself. No one has lit the Menorah in centuries, regrettably.

    Mind you, that Menorah has been burning since the Churban HaBayit. It of course has been concealed from us.

    We nowadays, as you correctly said light Chanukias, not Menorahs.

    #914784

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    just my hapence – I’m not sure why you think anyone would care about your warning not to get you started on lo sasur.

    #914785

    147
    Participant

    Thank you R.T. for 2nd motioning me.

    #914786

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Thank you R.T. for 2nd motioning me.

    In my humble opinion, the Mishna Berurah outweighs both of you together.

    #914787

    longarekel This may be the biggest problem nowadays. People who don’t understand that mesorah and minhag is the yesod of Yiddishkeit.

    #914788

    longarekel
    Member

    yitayningwut: The gemara discusses erva b’ashashis and tzoa b’ashashis, so we know they had a way of covering things and still being able to see them. The same would apply to chanuka lights.

    R.T.: The menora has been burning since the churban habayis? Please provide a source for that.

    #914789

    yitayningwut – It wasn’t a warning, simply an indication that I knew that at some point someone would mention it and that I really didn’t want to get involved in a lomdish discussion of what it means and what is and isn’t included as it’s a phenomenally complex and controversial inyan. The repetition was to point out to those who did mention that I had already indicated my reluctance to get involved in such a discussion.

    #914790

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    longarekel – An ashashis is a screen made of material; it is not transparent.

    just my hapence – I’m not sure why you think anyone would care about your indication of your reluctance to get started on lo sasur.

    #914791

    yitayningwut – They don’t have to care. Makes no difference to me. All I did was say that I was aware of the issue they would likely bring and my reluctance to discuss it to pre-empt their bringing it. They were oblivious to this in their single-mindedness and said it anyway, in a manner that indicated that they thought I was unaware of said inyan. I therefore repeated my original statement to the point that I had already indicated my awareness. Whether or not they care is their problem. Now, did you have anything else to say or are you just going to reply with another put-down? Coz franlky, I don’t care about your put-downs.

    #914792

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    Whatever, man.

    #914793

    longarekel
    Member

    yitayningwut: It is transparent. See Brachos 25b.

    #914794

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    It’s translucent; not transparent.

    #914795

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I light behind an aspaklaria d’meira.

    #914796

    longarekel
    Member

    yitay: whatever. You can see through it. okay?

    #914797

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    No, you cannot see clearly through it. Clear glass was an extreme rarity.

    #914798

    longarekel
    Member

    A flame could be seen.

    #914799

    Toi
    Participant

    dy- i know what they say, or i wouldnt have quoted. I was just saying not to get all high and mighty calling it a lichatchila that we’ve always done.

    i punkt lit inside in yerushalyim this year, i dont have anything you can see from rishus harabim that would be called a chatzer. i think even acc. to R Elyashiv it was the onlt place.

    #914800

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Toi,

    What did I post that came across to you as high and mighty? “Ayin Biur HaGr”a”?

    My point (as I already mentioned) wasn’t to tell anyone how to light, just to defend those who light inside against lr’s implication that they are not yotzei.

    #914801

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    longarekel, not clearly. Surely not enough that the people walking the streets would be able to make out the mehadrin.

    #914802

    Toi
    Participant

    dy- i dont mean you. i mean whoever the op was that wrote that this is what we’ve always done vichulu.

    #914803

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Toi,

    I’m not following how your posts were saying what you intended, but okay.

    #914804

    Kozov
    Member

    jmh- If you weren’t unaware of said inyan, what was your point? You jumping to conclude I didn’t see the paranthesis is incorrect.

    #914805

    Toi
    Participant

    DY- shmendrik said,”Ashreinu mah tov chelkaynu, that we continue to keep our minhogim following the steps of previous doros – al titosh toras imecha.”

    To that post came my reply.

    #914806

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Toi,

    Got it. Certain posters’ intentionally outrageous posts, though, in my opinion, are best ignored.

    #914807

    Toi
    Participant

    I’m glad mine arent. what would be the fun in that.

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