December 13, 2012 at 3:04 am #607401
Did YOU light outside? If not, why not? (if it’s not dangerous in your neighborhood). The gemara, rif, rambam, rosh, shulchan aruch,etc. clearly say the mitzva is to light outside. So why did YOU not perform the mitzva of lighting neiros chanuka?
December 13, 2012 at 3:48 am #914761
*Ring Ring Ring*
(-.-)): Did YOU light outside? If not, why not? (if it’s not dangerous in your neighborhood). The gemara, rif, rambam, rosh, shulchan aruch,etc. clearly say the mitzva is to light outside. So why did YOU not perform the mitzva of lighting neiros chanuka?
(‘;’)): “G-d? Is that you!?!”
(-.-)): “No, it’s longarekel.”
December 13, 2012 at 4:40 am #914762
If I would light outside, there is a chashash that I would soon join those who do public menorah lighting. We must not do anything that resembles that new hanhoga (chodosh is ossur min hatorah), even if it means abrogating from our Rishonim and poskim.
Let them light in the town square on monstrous sized menorahs while we continue to light in the window as yidden always did. If you disagree, go to the town square for your hadlokah osa mitzvah.
Ashreinu mah tov chelkaynu, that we continue to keep our minhogim following the steps of previous doros – al titosh toras imecha.
December 13, 2012 at 4:09 pm #914763
Ayin Biur HaGr”a
December 13, 2012 at 4:25 pm #914764
Well said brony
December 13, 2012 at 4:29 pm #914765
lol @ Brony
December 14, 2012 at 12:14 pm #914766
actually, ayin the ittur and or zaruah.
December 14, 2012 at 2:35 pm #914767
That’s a far cry from saying you’re not yotzei. The Ittur and the Or Zarua are acknowledging that the minhag remained; the Or Zarua doesn’t know why, but doesn’t explcitly say to change, the Ittur says it’s preferable to light outside, but clearly you’re yotzei inside, and the Gaon is mashma that the minhag still remains.
I have no problem with someone lighting outside. I do have a problem with someone casting aspersions on those who light inside, which, at least in ch”l, is the predominant minhag and obviously has been since the sha’as sakana.
December 14, 2012 at 2:49 pm #914768
What do you mean by dangerous?
I know of someone that used to light outside, he once woke up to find out that his entire family’s menora’s were no longer there.
no longer does he light outside.
December 16, 2012 at 5:40 am #914769
Hello Brony, rabbi dr, and OneOfMany, this is longarekel calling with a friendly reminder to light chanuka lights outside as stated clearly in Halacha. Yes, it is my business because kol yisrael areivim. Please conform with Halacha before God Himself gives you a call or decides to pay you a visit. You don’t want that. WE don’t want that. Wishing you a lot of hatzlacha and bracha and may we always be zoche to fulfill God’s will in the proper fashion. Goodbye.
December 16, 2012 at 9:37 am #914770
longarekel -“fulfill God’s will in the proper fashion”. You do know that Neiros Chanuka is d’rabonon, right? (And please don’t get started on lo sosuru etc., you really don’t want to go there with me…)
December 16, 2012 at 4:45 pm #914771
Rabbenu Perachia (Shabbos 21b) cites R’ Hai Gaon as saying that if the candles will go out due to wind or rain it is no different than sha’as hasakanah. The Ritva says the same thing. I haven’t seen anyone who argues.
December 16, 2012 at 5:06 pm #914772
“You do know that Neiros Chanuka is d’rabonon, right”
It is still God’s will.
December 17, 2012 at 10:36 pm #914773
In have never lit a Menorah. Only thge Kohen at the Bais haMikdosh [or at the Mishkon] has ever lit a Menorah.
But I have lit a Chanukiyah 8 times each year.
December 18, 2012 at 12:49 am #914774
yitayningwut: I’m talking about when it will stay lit.
just my hapence: what kozov said.
147: Notice I never used the word menora. chanukiya is a modern fabrication.
December 18, 2012 at 1:48 am #914775
longarekel – You asked why I don’t light outside. Where I am located in the tri-state area, a candle lit outside will not remain lit for a long period of time. My answer is sufficient for the majority of CR members as well.
December 18, 2012 at 2:30 am #914776
I light outside in a box with glass walls, especially constructed for this purpose. I think you can get one at any good judaica store. In Eretz Yisrael it is very common. I actually got mine there.
December 18, 2012 at 3:35 am #914777
Why do you consider that lighting outside, any more than inside the house at the glass window? Also, more importantly, this is a new invention that didn’t exist in the times of Chazal (clear glass wasn’t really around until the last 200 years). Who says something they didn’t anticipate can turn the time from sha’as hasakana back to regular?
December 18, 2012 at 4:05 am #914778
You used the word menora in the title, which is fine. If the term is good enough for the Mishnah Berurah, it’s good enough for me.
December 18, 2012 at 6:02 am #914779
yitayningwut: The sources clearly say “at the doorway of the house, outside, within a tefach of the doorway”. There are reasons why davka there. Glass is mentioned in mishnayos (especially seder taharos) and I have no reason to assume it was colored. Anyway it can be quite windy in Eretz Yisrael, even more so than in the U.S. in some places (like Yerushalayim, on a hill, for example). I’m sure they figured out how to do it. (Agav, my shamash was outside the box and lit for six hours without a problem. Of course that may not work for everyone.)
DaasYochid: I agree with you. I tried to be careful with the wording
I guess I wasn’t thorough enough.
December 18, 2012 at 1:42 pm #914780
Glass is mentioned in mishnayos (especially seder taharos) and I have no reason to assume it was colored.
Ayin Google and Wikipedia. They had glass in the days of Chazal but it was opaque, not clear. Clear glass was developed in the 9th century and on, and even then it wasn’t the standard in windows until the last 200 years; really until 1902.
December 18, 2012 at 4:17 pm #914781
Longarekel, kozov – like I said, please don’t get me started on ‘lo sosur’.
December 18, 2012 at 5:39 pm #914782
the minhag is chutz la’aretz is to light indoors.
December 18, 2012 at 5:43 pm #914783
147: I said the same thing myself. No one has lit the Menorah in centuries, regrettably.
Mind you, that Menorah has been burning since the Churban HaBayit. It of course has been concealed from us.
We nowadays, as you correctly said light Chanukias, not Menorahs.
December 18, 2012 at 11:55 pm #914784
just my hapence – I’m not sure why you think anyone would care about your warning not to get you started on lo sasur.
December 19, 2012 at 3:26 am #914785
Thank you R.T. for 2nd motioning me.
December 19, 2012 at 3:41 am #914786
Thank you R.T. for 2nd motioning me.
In my humble opinion, the Mishna Berurah outweighs both of you together.
December 19, 2012 at 5:42 am #914787
longarekel This may be the biggest problem nowadays. People who don’t understand that mesorah and minhag is the yesod of Yiddishkeit.
December 19, 2012 at 8:15 am #914788
yitayningwut: The gemara discusses erva b’ashashis and tzoa b’ashashis, so we know they had a way of covering things and still being able to see them. The same would apply to chanuka lights.
R.T.: The menora has been burning since the churban habayis? Please provide a source for that.
December 19, 2012 at 11:17 am #914789
yitayningwut – It wasn’t a warning, simply an indication that I knew that at some point someone would mention it and that I really didn’t want to get involved in a lomdish discussion of what it means and what is and isn’t included as it’s a phenomenally complex and controversial inyan. The repetition was to point out to those who did mention that I had already indicated my reluctance to get involved in such a discussion.
December 19, 2012 at 1:12 pm #914790
longarekel – An ashashis is a screen made of material; it is not transparent.
just my hapence – I’m not sure why you think anyone would care about your indication of your reluctance to get started on lo sasur.
December 19, 2012 at 2:19 pm #914791
yitayningwut – They don’t have to care. Makes no difference to me. All I did was say that I was aware of the issue they would likely bring and my reluctance to discuss it to pre-empt their bringing it. They were oblivious to this in their single-mindedness and said it anyway, in a manner that indicated that they thought I was unaware of said inyan. I therefore repeated my original statement to the point that I had already indicated my awareness. Whether or not they care is their problem. Now, did you have anything else to say or are you just going to reply with another put-down? Coz franlky, I don’t care about your put-downs.
December 19, 2012 at 5:53 pm #914792
December 20, 2012 at 6:09 am #914793
yitayningwut: It is transparent. See Brachos 25b.
December 20, 2012 at 1:57 pm #914794
It’s translucent; not transparent.
December 20, 2012 at 4:23 pm #914795
I light behind an aspaklaria d’meira.
December 21, 2012 at 6:45 am #914796
yitay: whatever. You can see through it. okay?
December 21, 2012 at 7:57 am #914797
No, you cannot see clearly through it. Clear glass was an extreme rarity.
December 21, 2012 at 8:44 am #914798
A flame could be seen.
December 21, 2012 at 10:20 am #914799
dy- i know what they say, or i wouldnt have quoted. I was just saying not to get all high and mighty calling it a lichatchila that we’ve always done.
i punkt lit inside in yerushalyim this year, i dont have anything you can see from rishus harabim that would be called a chatzer. i think even acc. to R Elyashiv it was the onlt place.
December 21, 2012 at 4:48 pm #914800
What did I post that came across to you as high and mighty? “Ayin Biur HaGr”a”?
My point (as I already mentioned) wasn’t to tell anyone how to light, just to defend those who light inside against lr’s implication that they are not yotzei.
December 21, 2012 at 6:59 pm #914801
longarekel, not clearly. Surely not enough that the people walking the streets would be able to make out the mehadrin.
December 22, 2012 at 5:43 pm #914802
dy- i dont mean you. i mean whoever the op was that wrote that this is what we’ve always done vichulu.
December 23, 2012 at 12:40 am #914803
I’m not following how your posts were saying what you intended, but okay.
December 23, 2012 at 12:50 am #914804
jmh- If you weren’t unaware of said inyan, what was your point? You jumping to conclude I didn’t see the paranthesis is incorrect.
December 23, 2012 at 5:20 am #914805
DY- shmendrik said,”Ashreinu mah tov chelkaynu, that we continue to keep our minhogim following the steps of previous doros – al titosh toras imecha.”
To that post came my reply.
December 23, 2012 at 5:33 am #914806
Got it. Certain posters’ intentionally outrageous posts, though, in my opinion, are best ignored.
December 23, 2012 at 10:36 am #914807
I’m glad mine arent. what would be the fun in that.
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