Banning All Missionary Activity Inside Israel

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Viewing 16 posts - 1 through 16 (of 16 total)
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  • #1505461

    Kosher Korean
    Participant

    Why doesn’t the state of Israel ban any and all foreign and domestic X missionary groups that are operating inside the state of Israel. That way it will prevent hilonim from falling the missionary groups traps.

    #1505509

    DovidBT
    Participant

    prevent hilonim from falling the missionary groups traps.

    The best protection against that is Torah education and observance.

    #1505515

    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    Um, they are banned.
    The problem in this country isn’t the laws.
    it’s the fact no one over enforces anything.

    #1505518

    Toi
    Participant

    That’s an extremely complicated issue, with ramifications you probably didn’t fully think through.

    #1505561

    takahmamash
    Participant

    Um, they are banned.

    Incorrect.
    The law is that it’s illegal to missionize children and it’s illegal to missionize and offer money to people.
    That’s it.
    It’s not illegal for missionaries to operate in Israel among adults, as long as no money changes hands.

    #1505567

    akuperma
    Participant

    Because such a ban would also prohibit all forms of “Kiruv”, which, as seen by the hiloni ruling class, involves socially undesirable Orthodox Jews conducting missionary activities aimed at non-religious Israelis. To most secular Israelis (who are atheists, and very committed to that belief), the Christian missionaries are non-threatening and more amusing and deluded than anything else whereas the frum “missionaries” have a serious record of causing many Jewish youth to go off the zionist derekh and embrace the “yoke of Torah and Mitsvos” (the “yoke” which the zionist anthem sings about being free of). We should remember that to frum Jews, who accept the existence of a creator, the Christians are at least “serious”, but to most secular Jews anyone supporting the idea of a “creator” or “ruler” of the universe is totally off his rocker.

    #1505569

    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    Well I guess not.
    For starters they don’t just do chilonim. I live in a heavily chareidi area and on my block there’s some very religious Jews for J, missionized from being Chareidi, in Israel.

    #1505580

    Midwest2
    Participant

    There seems to be a belief that all non-frum Jews in Israel are atheists. But from my experience and from the number of Israelis who observe some mitzvos, that isn’t the case. For instance, the majority of Jews in Israel fast on Yom Kippur (see the YWN article on this last fall). The militant atheists are a small fraction of hilonim. Most fall into the “spiritual but not religious” classification, i.e. they believe in a Deity, in right and wrong, the existence of a soul, etc. but don’t affiliate with any established religion. In Israel, most identify as Jews and keep many traditional practices, but don’t care to join up to a fully-observant lifestyle. Take a look at how successful kiruv efforts have been, and how many children of non-chareidi parents are going to religious schools.

    In fact, one could think that the strident, in-your-face attitude and political involvement of the most visible Hareidi groups might have some off-putting influence on Israelis, who for very good reasons are skeptical of politics in general. And looking down on them because “they’re all atheists” isn’t going to be much of a draw either.

    #1505583

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    prevent hilonim from falling the missionary groups traps.

    The best protection against that is Torah education and observance.

    There are R’L plenty of people for whom that doesnt work

    #1505584

    Midwest2
    Participant

    And akuperman – the “yoke” in HaTikvah” isn’t the yoke of Torah, it’s the yoke of non-Jewish political domination and persecution. Get acquainted with modern Jewish history so you know what you’re being leitz about.

    #1505587

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Because such a ban would also prohibit all forms of “Kiruv”, which, as seen by the hiloni ruling class, involves socially undesirable Orthodox Jews conducting missionary activities aimed at non-religious Israelis. To most secular Israelis (who are atheists, and very committed to that belief), the Christian missionaries are non-threatening and more amusing and deluded than anything else whereas the frum “missionaries” have a serious record of causing many Jewish youth to go off the zionist derekh and embrace the “yoke of Torah and Mitsvos” (the “yoke” which the zionist anthem sings about being free of). We should remember that to frum Jews, who accept the existence of a creator, the Christians are at least “serious”, but to most secular Jews anyone supporting the idea of a “creator” or “ruler” of the universe is totally off his rocker.

    Most secular are not Atheist, but rather NON-RELIGIOUS as opposed to Anti-Religious meaning they arent against reglion in general, jsut that they dont want to be religious

    #1505730

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    The most narrow question here is how does a democratic state which guarantees freedom of thought and expression implement a broad prohibition on what is “protected free speech”. To whom does it apply, under what circumstances, what is considered “missionary activity” versus simply expressing a view regarding religious beliefs? Not sure it is remotely feasible absent narrow cases of individuals needing protection (aka children, developmentally disabled etc.) who cannot decide for themselves.

    #1505743

    akuperma
    Participant

    Midwest2: Did you ever read what your rebbe, the founder of zionism, Theodore Herzl wrote. Yes, they wanted to stop getting shot at by the goyim, but they could accomplish that in a variety of ways. Escaping from the restrictions of having to follow halacha was the major attraction of zionism. Israelis are infamous for their secularity. One can’t even discuss on YWN the ways in which Tel Aviv and Eliat have become world famous (we would say “infamous”).

    #1505868

    Midwest2
    Participant

    Gadolhadorah – that is exactly the problem. How, in a democracy, do you enact laws that limit religious freedom in general, or for certain specific groups? Most democracies currently regard religion as an area that is strictly “hands off” for government regulation. The supporters of the missionary groups would be very quick to take action. Remember that we’re a tiny minority in the US, so we couldn’t count on the US Congress to help us.

    And what about missionizing non-Jews? A Xtian missionizing a Muslim? Muslims missionizing Xtians? Either one trying to missionize a Druze? It gets very, very complicated.

    #1505888

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Escaping from the restrictions of having to follow halacha was the major attraction of zionism.

    You dont have to be a zionist to do that, Many went to the United States or went to Big European Cities to do this

    #1505916

    Toi
    Participant

    zdad- Those Jews left practicing Judaism due to financial pressures, or a desire to join American/European culture, not an institutionalized antipathy for God and his Torah.

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