I know this is popa's field of questions but I was at a minyan today where the father said "baruch shepatrani m'onesh shelazeh" and I was wondering why do we give a bracha to hashem for taking us out of a situation that he put us into (I guess the same thing applies to birchas hagomel)
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Baruch ShePatrani
(15 posts)-
Posted 3 months ago #
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We never should say Baruch Shepatrani (Vehamaivin Yavin).
Posted 3 months ago # -
What, no story about flying 3 headed minyan that is half conservative and half egalitarian, with a mohel on camelback?
Posted 3 months ago # -
a katan, as far as i know, has no yetzer tov. the function of yetzer tov and that responsibility falls on his parents, and they are therefore responsible for his action. when a kid turns 13, becoming a gadol, he receives an internal yetzer tov and is therefore responsible for his own actions. so i suppose it could be cause for both celebration and relief...that a mans son is now a proper person AND that he no longer has to burn for his son's misdeeds :D
dont ask me where i got all this from...i have no idea.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Pet Peeve Alert: The word is sheptarani, not shepatrani. Shvu under the Pey, Kumetz under the Tes, not vice versa.
Posted 3 months ago # -
The reason is because a father is responsible for the sins of his child until the child reaches the age of thirteen, as he should have taught him to refrain from sin. From the age of thirteen he is less responsible. Although, the Chofetz Chaim makes a point of mentioning the dictum of Chazal that one who does not rebuke an older child is considered responsible for his sins, and one who does not rebuke members of a community will be held responsible for their sins as well. Obviously a Halachic authority should be consulted how this should be done.
The Levush brings the exact opposite reasoning for this Bracha. Until a child is thirteen, he is punished on account of the father’s shortcomings. From the age of thirteen, the child does not directly suffer from his father’s inequities.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Yungerman,
Sorry no pets allowed in the cr
Posted 3 months ago # -
everyone else (except popa that is),
Hashem is the one that made you mechuyev in your kids action so why do we say that he exempted us, its like telling the cop that put you in jail "thanks for freeing me" after he takes you out
Posted 3 months ago # -
kingdavid hi and welcome. I dont remember speaking with you before. Very interesting. Do you know why according to the levush is it the father making that brocha when it would seem more appropriate for the son to be making it if it is him not being punished any more for his father's aveiros?
yungerman1 the word isnt sheptarani either. Its she-pi-torani (sheva na, not sheva nach).
Posted 3 months ago # -
You are thanking Hashem that he gave you a job with a 13 year limit, and you successfully completed the responsibility.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Wouldn't it be better with no responsibility at all, why am I happy that I'm forced to have a job?
Posted 3 months ago # -
Shticky Guy- True true, but those who pronounce it shepatrani are probaly not familiar with shva na and shva nach.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Haqer,
Whose comment specifically,
Yunger,
Actually I'm very familliar with it
Posted 3 months ago # -
Yunger true true!
Posted 3 months ago #
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