“Britain has a problem with British Pakistani men…”

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  • #1340946

    gavriel613
    Participant

    – quote attributed to the UK Labour shadow minister Sarah Champion. Censored to leave out the me’anes bit.

    She also wrote: “These people are predators, and the common denominator is their ethnic heritage.”

    And now she’s had to resign.

    Let the comments begin…

    #1341220

    yekke2
    Participant

    Britain has a problem with black haired people exploiting white children. Let’s face the facts, its true!! Most of the convicted abusers have had black hair, not brown, blonde or any other color. This is an issue, and we must deal with it. What? It doesn’t make any sense that a hair color can play a role in defining abusers? Well, those are the facts.

    There.

    I said it.

    [#CRDSYAG]

    #1341377

    Joseph
    Participant

    Yekke,

    if most terrorists are Muslim, is their being Muslim irrelevant to the issue of terrorism (i.e. in regards to prevention)?

    If most crime is committed by men, is that fact irrelevant to the issue of crime (i.e. in regards to prevention)?

    #1341433

    yekke2
    Participant

    If the motive for the crime is religious based, then the crime is connected to the religion; the religion calls for them to commit this crime. And if the motive for the crime is because of biological differences between man and woman, then obviously this is relevant to prevention.

    A basic common denominator does not show causality. And if there is no reason to say that people of one ethnic minority should have more taivah, less control, more opportunity or more motive to commit the crime, then the observation means nothing.

    [#CRDSYAG]

    #1341494

    gavriel613
    Participant

    “if there is no reason to say that people of one ethnic minority should have more taivah”

    See Rambam Teshuva 8:6:

    הלכות תשובה – פרק שמיני
    ו שמא תקל בעיניך טובה זו ותדמה שאין שכר המצות והיות האדם שלם בדרכי האמת אלא להיותו אוכל ושותה מאכלות טובות ובועל צורות נאות ולובש בגדי שש ורקמה ושוכן באהלי שן ומשתמש בכלי כסף וזהב ודברים הדומים לאלו כמו שמדמין אלו הערביים הטפשים האוילים השטופים בזמה.

    #1341670

    yekke2
    Participant

    Gavriel613 – For that price, you could have quoted Kiddushin 49b.

    #1341810

    gavriel613
    Participant

    yes but one must never underestimate the Rambam clout

    #1342679

    🐈 Rand0m3x 🐈
    Participant

    The Rambam can be interpreted as referring to their actual state at that time, not to an innate tendency.
    (And I assume no one’s going to argue that they’re all tipshim.)

    #1342687

    🐈 Rand0m3x 🐈
    Participant

    Similarly, an existing criminal behavior among people of a certain ethnicity is not a racist idea.
    (Also my opinion about the hotel sign, by the way – yes, it shouldn’t have said “Jewish,” but
    if the problem was in fact only with Jews, it doesn’t mean the sign-poster is an anti-Semite.)

    #1343158

    KnPanel
    Participant

    I live in England, and personally have Pakistani friends that told me that the accusations against the Pakistani community is unfounded, and that it was made up by the rascist English Defense League to demonize the Pakstani community.

    #1343159

    Joseph
    Participant

    Didn’t we learn the ingrained habits of each nationality when they rejected the Torah? Edom (descending from Eisev) murders; the nations from Yishmael steal, etcetera.

    #1343166

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    We’ve got our own.

    #1343181

    yekke2
    Participant

    Accusations from the English Defence League? Perhaps take a look at the news. Take a look at the mugshots of the convicted abusers, and see if you can come up with your own conclusion.

    #1343182

    KnPanel
    Participant

    I was taught by my rebbe z’l, that a Jew has no right to judge another person’s belief system.

    #1343192

    🐈 Rand0m3x 🐈
    Participant

    I was taught by my rebbe z’l, that a Jew has no right to judge another person’s belief system.

    The Rambam seems to have disagreed – see the quote above.

    #1343193

    🐈 Rand0m3x 🐈
    Participant

    (Also, what did that have to do with anything?)

    #1343190

    Yisroelbtachbashem
    Participant

    There are two basic issues here:
    (1) a huge amount of Muslims were allowed into continental Europe. According to reports, 75% were young males.
    (2) Islam looks at a non Islamic woman as “permissible.” V’dai la’maivin. This is based on the original “perfect” man, Mohammed, who took advantage of 9 year old old Aisha, a Jewish girl whose father, etc. was beheaded.
    As I’ve said before, even if an earlier generation will become part of the dominant culture, a later generation may become “super religious.”
    In Jusaism, a ba’al Teshuva may become super-religious by following Moshe Rabbeinu’s Derech and sitting and learning all day. He may not have parnassah and may need to collect Tzedakah.
    A born again Xtian may follow J’s Derech and turn the other cheek. He may end up in the hospital!
    A jihadi who becomes super religious may follow Mohammed’s example and become a terrorist and ravage and savage any non-islamic person, etc.

    #1343274

    KnPanel
    Participant

    Stop having hate in your heart for Pakistanis and start loving your fellow neighbor as yourself and that’s the whole Torah and the rest is commentary- Rabbi Hillel
    Also all religions have bad apples, if you went back in time to medieval Christian Europe they were slaghtering Jews practically every single day and you’d for sure think that Christianity is a blood thirsty religion based on your eyewitness experience of the day.

    #1343275

    yekke2
    Participant

    @knpanel: I was taught by my rebbe z’l, that a Jew has no right to judge another person’s belief system.

    (a) If you mean “judge” in terms of blame, or holding accountable, you are correct. But as far as tolerance and acceptance is concerned, “live and let live” is by no means a Jewish policy.

    (b) Supposedly, the correlation of Pakistani men involved in this crime is nothing to do with their belief system, but more of a cultural issue. Terrorism can be rooted to religion, and then you could [incorrectly] say that we have no right to judge their belief system. Abusing children has no source in religion [other than the fact that Muslim religious leaders from day one were pedophiles].

    #1343304

    on the ball
    Participant

    To Gavriel613 who quoted the Rambam in Hilchos Teshuva:

    Pakistanis are not Arabs

    #1343431

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Pakistanis are not a religion.

    #1343514

    KnPanel
    Participant

    What if it was Yemenite Jews accused of abusing white British girls would your tone suddenly change or would you still be just as critical if not more so with the Yemenites accused as you are with the Pakistanis accused?

    #1343553

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    There is nothing wrong with being loyal to one’s own people.

    If a stranger was accused of stealing people’s cats and barbecuing them alive, how would you react? Would you react differently if the person accused was your mother?

    #1343684

    NeutiquamErro
    Participant

    It’s not chiefly an issue of race, it’s an issue of culture. Men from certain cultures, in particular particular south Asian communities, feel that young white females are inferior, and as such they can treat them awfully despite what scruples they may feel as human beings. It isn’t really a matter for debate. That’s not to say don’t debate it, it’s just there’s pretty conclusive evidence. It’s a clear pattern across different towns and cities in the UK, that organised groups of men from particular cultures carry out a pattern of abuse against vulnerable white girls. The reluctance to accept that the culture these men originate from plays a part led to a failure to track down and prosecute these gangs.

    #1344462

    KnPanel
    Participant

    What your saying against all South Asians is out and out bigotry against an entire group of people and is entirely unjust and baseless. It would be like if I said all white people everywhere are affiliated with the Ku Klux Klan and are also affiliated Skinheads and neo-Nazis and White Supremacists period.

    #1345343

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Whites are not a nationality.

    #1345616

    KnPanel
    Participant

    It has been proven by a British nationally survey company that South Asians are me highly educated then their native white British conterpart also it has been proven by a British nationally survey company that South Asians have better on average paying jobs (i.e. doctor, lawyer, etc) and in general make more money compared to their native white British counterpart.

    #1345725

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    That is not helpful.

    #1346070

    MDG
    Participant

    “It has been proven by a British nationally survey company that South Asians are me highly educated then their native white British conterpart ”

    Those surveys include Chinese and Indian who are very educated. BUT Pakis are less educated than whites.

    #1346408

    yehudayona
    Participant

    If abuse of young white women by Pakistani men is a cultural thing, then why haven’t I heard of incidents like this in Brooklyn, which has a large Pakistani community? It seems that in the U.S., in violence involving South Asians and whites, the whites are almost always the perpetrators.

    MDG, Chinese are not South Asians. And abuse (even to the point of murder) of young Indian women by Indian men in India is a significant problem. I don’t know whether the perpetrators are highly educated.

    #1346511

    MDG
    Participant

    I got my info from. The Telegraph and The Guardian. They seemed to limp them together. Maybe It’s a Brit thing. Maybe I misunderstood. In any event, the pakis are less educated.

    #1346554

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    The Indian men who hurt Indian women hurt Indian women more than other women because Indian women are in India.

    #1346576

    🐈 Rand0m3x 🐈
    Participant

    And Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.

    #1346824

    KnPanel
    Participant

    My boss is a Pakstani and he is the nicest person you will ever meet. The problem in the UK stems from the far right UKIP leader Nigel Farage who loves bashing all immigrants in the UK but especially Pakistanis in particular then you have Tommy Robinson of The English Defense League who also hates Pakistanis too then you have any Anne Marie Waters, Tom Holland, and Katie Hopkins who have a deep seated hatred of all immigrants but especially of Pakistanis in particular as well period.

    #1346840

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    So your token Pakistani boss means cultural differences don’t exist?

    #1346886

    Health
    Participant

    YY -“If abuse of young white women by Pakistani men is a cultural thing, then why haven’t I heard of incidents like this in Brooklyn, which has a large Pakistani community”

    it’s a Muslim thing! That’s why ISIS does what it does, to women & children that aren’t Sunnis!
    In the US, it would be a crime, that would be prosecuted.

    #1346911

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Britain also has laws.

    #1348085

    KnPanel
    Participant

    My Pakistani friend and the Pakistani community in Britian donates more money to charity overall then the whole entire native white British population does as a whole period.

    #1348538

    yehudayona
    Participant

    KnPanel, I find that hard to believe. Pakistanis are less than 2% of the population of the UK. While Muslims are required to give charity (2.5% of assets annually according to one web page I found), the relatively small number of Pakistanis in the UK makes the veracity of your claim suspect. I found an estimate of the total charitable giving of the British to be close to 10 billion pounds. If every Pakistani man, woman, and child gave 1,000 pounds, that would only be slightly over 1 billion pounds. Also, I suspect that Muslims donate almost entirely to Muslim causes (just as frum Jews donate almost entirely to Jewish causes), so the impact of their giving on non-Muslims is minimal.

    #1348555

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Did KnPanel deny the original claim? Because otherwise it seems like he’s suggesting that it’s okay to assault people if you earn a high income and give a lot to charity.

    #1349186

    KnPanel
    Participant

    The Pakistani community in Britian has established more soup kitchens to feed the poor and the needy in Britain then all the white native British population and all the other whites in all of Britain combined.

    #1349194

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    You’re still doing it. You’re sounding really misogynistic right now.

    #1349720

    KnPanel
    Participant

    The Pakistani community is the most accepting and open and embracing community in all of Britian period.

    #1349722

    KnPanel
    Participant

    The Pakistani community is the most open and tolerant and embracing and welcoming in all of Britian.

    #1349733

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    If you were defending someone in an assault trial, would you rely on evidence that shows that the defendant is highly educated, earns a high income, gives a lot to charity, and established a larger than average number of soup kitchens, or would you actually address the accusation?

    #1350215

    KnPanel
    Participant

    My Pakistani friend and his family and the whole entire Pakistani as a whole is more patriotic of being British then the whole entire white native British population is and the whole entire Pakistani community is more patriotic of being British then the whole entire foreign white population in Britian is period.

    #1350216

    MDG
    Participant

    “What your saying against all South Asians is out and out bigotry against an entire group of people and is entirely unjust and baseless.”

    Actually, their behavior is based on their belief system, Islam.
    They are being judged based on their actions and belief system that justifies the rape of nonmoslem females.

    Yes they can be nice, but can you really trust them?
    Their religion tells them to lie and backstab.
    Taqiyya – lying to non-believers to advance the cause of Islam – in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.  Quran (3:28) is one source for that treachery.

    #1350262

    KnPanel
    Participant

    You just got your bigoted information from a xenophobic website run by probably David Wood or Robert Spencer or Pamela Geller, etc, who’s whole aim is to hate on and smear an entire community based on ungrounded and libelous charges period.

    #1350395

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    KnPanel, Pakistan and its neighboring countries have a problem in this area. Women in those countries are harmed by men all the time. Why expect those men to change their behavior when they leave to a different country?

    #1350362

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Believing that it British Pakistani men are more likely to commit certain crimes is not the same as hating South Asians.

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