Can an Ehrlicher Yid be a Foodie?

Home Coffeeroom Decaffeinated Coffee Controversial Topics Can an Ehrlicher Yid be a Foodie?

Viewing 50 posts - 1 through 50 (of 85 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1457442

    Haimy
    Participant

    On occasion, I read a frum weekly newspaper or magazine & cannot believe that a frum writer would describe themselves as a Foodie.( I don’t remember who the writer was or the publication)

    Let’s see Wikipedia’s definition of a foodie: “A foodie is a person who has an ardent or refined interest in food and alcoholic beverages.[1] A foodie seeks new food experiences as a hobby rather than simply eating out of convenience or hunger. The terms “gastronome”, “gourmand” and “epicure” define the same thing, i.e. a person who enjoys food for pleasure.”
    This definition sounds very close to what the Mussar seforim call a “Baal Taavah”. Food is not eaten for sustenance or wellbeing, it is just for the pursuit of pleasure alone.
    Can an Ehrlicher Yid be a Foodie?

    #1457475

    Definitely not.

    #1457474

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    No. If ehrlich means the same to all. If anyone disagrees, please define ehrlich.

    The main issue with such a person is not that he enjoys food.the problem is that he doesn’t enjoy Hashem and Yiddishkeit enough….

    #1457484

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Why not?

    There is nothing wrong with enjoying good kosher food.

    It is not a bigger Mitzvah to eat Kugel and Chulent than to eat at Izzy’s bbq. Its the same Mitzvah

    #1457486

    Joseph
    Participant

    Most of today’s so-called “frum” weekly magazines are anything but.

    #1457488

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Of course.

    You answer your own question by mentioning “baalei mussar”
    An erliche yid follows what shulchan aruch says.as long as he washes makes berachos and benches the foodie is erluch.
    Does a person who doesn’t look with ayin tov at his fellow yidden erlich?
    What about us spending time hocking about nonsense online relish? Baalei mussar might not be impressed but dont worry
    You can still be erlich

    #1457501

    jdb
    Participant

    Ehricher you is between that person and HKBH. Prishus is a complex sugya. Someone who enjoys exceptional food, and foes so through the lense of appreciation to HKBH and advocating and demonstrating that kosher food is not inherantly lesser is Ehrlich in my book.

    Let’s spend more time and energy focussing on personal growth and less time passing judgement.

    #1457505

    TheGoq
    Participant

    Can an ehrlicher yid be a car enthusiast? or a sports fan?

    #1457508

    Joseph
    Participant

    Ehrlich does not mean doing everything or anything that’s not technically assur.

    #1457509

    jakob
    Participant

    an erlicher yid eats for one reason only, he eats so that he/she can have strength to serve Hashem, which comes to mean that if you have reached this level & have removed these physical pleasures of eating all these fancy desired foods etc…. then there is really no difference between eating for dinner bread & water versus steak & soda, you have only one reason your eating so you can continue to have coach to serve Hashem & do mitzvos.

    if you go out to all these restaurant a lot (not just once a week) then you should not fool/corrupt yourself into thinking you are just going to eat to have strength but know the truth yourself that you are going to enjoy that specific restaurants pleasure food

    #1457536

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    True. I guess I should modify as I just learned about criticising myself and not others. Can a foodie be ehrlich? Guess so if in other areas he behaves as an ehrliche yid. It’s not an aveira.

    However I wouldn’t call eating food just for the taste of it ehrliche behaviour. Can we agree on that?

    #1457511

    Non Political
    Participant

    Consider the machlokis tanaโ€™im on the matter of why a Nazir brings a korbon for being choteh al ha-nefish. Is it because he withheld permissible pleasure from himself and it is sufficient what the Torah forbade? Is it because he is bringing himself from a higher level of kedusha to a lower level by ending his term of prishus? Is it both?

    Also, consider the Yerushalmi that a person will have to answer for what he had an opportunity to derive pleasure from and doesnโ€™t.

    Obviously, making pleasure seeking ones goal in life is contrary to Yidishkeit. Intent matters.But it cuts both ways. You can use the Yerushalmi to become a baal taiva and you can use prishus to become a baal gaiva.

    Also, maintaining awareness of our purpose for being in this world and working on our midos are not matters that are lefnai meshuras hadin left to chassidim and baalai musser. They are incumbent on every single yid.

    #1457563

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Can an ehrlicher yid be a car enthusiast? or a sports fan?

    One could say those things are Bittul Torah

    However it takes about the same amount of time to eat gefilte as it does a piece of Sushi

    #1457587

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “However I wouldnโ€™t call eating food just for the taste of it ehrliche behaviour. Can we agree on that?”

    I dont know what that means.
    See Non-political’s excellent examples

    Additionally
    When Hashem promised E”Y, it is reffered to as “Zavas chalav u’dvash” Obviously this can have a metaphorical meaning too. ein mikra Yotze midei peshuto. I doubt this was geared only towards the non-erliche yidden. Sure there is a level to not be excited by food. As is said regarding Moshe Rabbeinu who obviosuly didint long for E”Y because the food. HE longed for the mitzvos he can do there. Obviosuly some Coffee room posters are on that level, and obviously there is such an idea. but to say enjoying food and even eating not solely to serve Hashem is automatically not-Ehrlich is silly.
    In this weeks PArsha we read of the Mahn, chazal tell us the Mahn tasted like anything. Was this too just geared towards non-erliche yidden?

    My favorite comment is this one
    “if you go out to all these restaurant a lot (not just once a week) then you should not fool/corrupt yourself into thinking you are just going to eat to have strength but know the truth yourself that you are going to enjoy that specific restaurants pleasure food”
    As if going once a week to a restaurant (!!!) THAT is “so that he/she can have strength to serve Hashem,” only more than that is a problem
    By that benchmark. I am a big baal madreiga and very erlich indeed

    #1457697

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    JosephParticipant
    Ehrlich does not mean doing everything or anything thatโ€™s not technically assur.
    ——————————joseph
    ,So the fact that you troll the internet , does that make you not ehrlich even though trollibg is*not technically assur*?

    #1457702

    When people start defining themselves by their hobby, that’s a problem.
    There’s a difference between one who has a hobby with food, works in it, likes it, than one who defines his life and being as a “foodie”.

    #1457754

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    shopping613

    Just So i have this straight. Saying “I enjoy collecting stamps” is ok but saying “I’m a philatelist” is not?

    #1457685

    Non Political
    Participant

    @ Jakob

    โ€œan erlicher yid eats for one reason only, he eats so that he/she can have strength to serve Hashem.

    There are many ways one can eat Lshem Shamayim that donโ€™t involve fooling yourself.

    1) Eat food that is healthy and avoid impulsively eating foods in quantities that compromise your health and be mikayem the Mitza of guarding your health.

    2) Eat mindfully, actually appreciating the pleasure and nutrition that the food is bringing you. Express that appreciation to the One who provided the food by making the brachos with kavanah. You can also be mkayem the Mitzva of Ahavta Lโ€™Raecha Kmocha by intending that your bracha should increase the sheffa of bracha to all of Klal Yisroel (see Nefish HaChaim regarding meaning of the word baruch).

    3) Take your wife out to lunch or dinner. Take your kids (one at a time) out for ice cream. Making time for those close to us and shared PLEASURABLE experiences should be common and are an important ingredient in Shalom Bayis and effective Chinuch.

    4) Appriciating that for every food that Hashem assured there is a comparable food which is permissible. This is a Chazal.

    5) Put aside the best foods lkavod Shabbos, Vkarata Lshabbos Oneg.

    #1457706

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Non political gave excellent example and it’s not a contradiction. Here’s another two : eating delicious food as part of oneg shabbos.

    Rava drinking good wine and meat… To concentrate better on his learning. The key is the intent. Everything in this world is meant to be used for Hashem and thereby elevated which is why the nazir is not the ideal, and neither is living a celibate life for that matter.

    No one said we can’t enjoy good food. If I go to a restaurant with my husband to enjoy a night out together and enhance our sholom bayis, there’s nothing wrong with that. Again the key here is intent.

    Most self described foodies are not foodies by definition. Most are doing it for parnassa, teaching others how to prepare good food (it’s a talent) etc

    #1457875

    jakob
    Participant

    non political & Chabad

    i give you both A++++ on your examples but don’t fool yourselves. ask yourself are you looking forward to the weekly family restaurant date & each week count the days down towards it or is it a pleasure & mitzva to make your family happy? if your counting the days down then sure its a big mitzva but your not going for 100 percent spiritual mitzva reason there just is some ruchnius in it but your still counting down the days for that geshmacka steak or ice cream etc… & should not food yourself into thinking you went to make your family happy etc….

    EVERY PLEASURE theres a way to turn it from gashmius to ruchnius & become a mitzva even though you are still enjoying it. yes even a rich business meeting in a fancy restaurant (where both pleasures of the food & the business is for you) can be changed over to ruchnius (ex. perhaps i can get to know this reform jew & invite him for shabbos & do kiruv or if not jewish focus on your middos & making a kiddush hashem even if no success in meeting at the end)

    #1457881

    @ubiquitin It’s not necessarily the word that makes the difference. Lots of people have a hobby, and lots of people have hobbies that they love and could not live without. I love writing, and singing and many other things, and I call myself a writer.

    Food isn’t a hobby. Hashem created food for us to eat.
    This world is so upside down that we don’t even realize it.

    What if someone told you that he/she “seeks new experiences” and is obsessed over other taivos Hashem gave us? I don’t think I need to elaborate further, but we would send them to a therapist.

    #1457888

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “Food isnโ€™t a hobby. Hashem created food for us to eat.”

    Neither is writing, Hashem created writing for us to communicate ideas.
    Can an erliche yid be a writer ?

    you ask “What if someone told you that he/she โ€œseeks new experiencesโ€ and is obsessed over…”
    I dont really folow. If someone is “obsessed over.” somethign h needs a therapist not for the expperience but for the obsession.
    Again, Im not saying there is no such thing as taking things too far. There is an idea of not being a naval bershus haTorah. But this doesnt mean that anybody who enjoys food even “as a hobby” isnt erlich

    #1457893

    ๐Ÿ‘‘RebYidd23
    Participant

    Shopping613, if what they are doing is forbidden by the Torah, it’s a sin, and it’s completely different from being overly interested in something permissible.

    #1457895

    I believe that food is considered to be a taivah. If it’s not coming from a taivadik place, then it’s fine.
    Writing is not a taivah.

    #1457904

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    I believe that food is considered to be a taivah. If itโ€™s not coming from a taivadik place, then itโ€™s fine.
    Writing is not a taivah.

    Where did you get such an idea? You do not get “extra credit” for eating bread and water vs smoked brisket with a chardonay

    #1457983

    Lo Sasuru Achray Levavchem Viachray Eineychem…

    #1457987

    Haimy
    Participant

    I’m sure Rebetzin Kanievsky tried to cook the tastiest Kugel for Shabbos & it probably tasted delicious. That doesn’t make her into a foodie, her intention was oneg Shabbos. A foodie seeks the pleasure of food as a goal in itself, not as an act of service to Hashem. This is a secular hedonistic expression which contradicts the mitzva of Kedoshim T’hiyue.

    #1458004

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    @jakob

    “i give you both A++++ on your examples but donโ€™t fool yourselves. ask yourself are you looking forward to the weekly family restaurant date & each week count the days down towards it or is it a pleasure & mitzva to make your family happy?”

    You remind me of an important concept I have learned and the path I have taken to apply it.

    Basically there are two levels in Avodas Hashem :

    1)kol maasecha yiyu lshem shomayim
    2) bchol derachecha doeihu

    What’s the difference? By the former, you do everything with Hahem as your final intent. With the latter, everything you do is itself serving Hashem.

    Practically, take food as an example.

    The first step “lshem shomayim” is that every time you really want to eat yummy food, you make sure that is enjoyment will end up lshem shomayim.

    For example, when I used to want to eat Ice cream or anything else I enjoyed, I would use it as a reward for doing something good – usually learning something extra. Good food I would remind myself that I need the energy to serve Hashem. I can’t help enjoying it for itself, but I can channel that enjoyment to be lshem shomayim.

    That’s why it’s a mitzva to make delicious food for Shabbos, so that the body too will associate shabbos with pleasure and look forward to it, not only the neshama.

    The higher step is bchol derachecha doeihu. That everything Gashmius we do is itself to serve Hashem, just like shabbos food is itself a mitzvah.

    So after enough of the former, one can reach the level where the body is used to associating every Gashmius pleasure with Avodas Hashem, and therefore only wants it in that framework – like only wanting to have cake together with the people you’re hosting – to make them comfortable. Only wanting to go to a restaurant to enhance sholom bayis etc.

    And if the purpose isn’t there, the food itself isn’t pleasurable anymore.

    The body is an amazing tool. We need to work with it to refine it but it’s capable of amazing things and can even elevate our neshama to new heights once we’ve trained it in.

    #1458063

    Non Political
    Participant

    @ Jakob

    โ€œbut donโ€™t fool yourselves. ask yourself are you looking forward to the weekly family restaurant date & each week count the days down towards it or is it a pleasure & mitzva to make your family happy?โ€

    If I look forward to the dessert at my friends chassuna, for which I drove 3 hours so that I can be meshtatef in his simcha, surely you arenโ€™t saying that my intent for attending his simcha was the dessert!

    Iโ€™m sure you are also not saying that we are not meant to davka avoid deriving pleasure from from the very things we are created to experience pleasure from.

    #1458075

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    [being a Foodie]… is a secular hedonistic expression which contradicts the mitzva of Kedoshim Tโ€™hiyue.”

    As the resident expert in all forms of ” secular hedonistic expression” (at least from Joe’s perspective) I can assure you that we have had “foodies” among gadoylei yisroel for generations. We can even go back to the avos and remind ourselves that a certain “son” sought to gain favor with his father by exploiting his yearning for good food.

    #1458210

    ๐Ÿ‘‘RebYidd23
    Participant

    It takes a certain amount of wealth (macro) for foodie culture to be possible. It’s not just about good food, it’s about treating food as a hobby.

    #1458251

    Toi
    Participant

    Gadolhadorah- You’re not supposed to understand chumash at your age the way you understood it at three. A primitive understanding of the avos should not serve as your yardstick for life.

    I think there are two factors to consider here. The chovos halevavos writes that there is no such thing as a rishus- everything is either a mitzvah or aveirah, depending on intent and whether it’s the yetzer harah trying to pull down the long road to actually doing overt issurim. That said, everyone’s personal avodah depends on their level of bechira and their madreiga in closeness to Hashem. If R’ Chaim Kanievsky started experimenting with briskets, we’d all understand he had gone senile. Where he’s holding, being a foodie cannot be considered erlich. It suggests and indulgence of the senses, purely for pleasure, unbecoming of the Gadol Hador. For someone who regularly engages in issurim chamurim, diverting their taivos to food could be considered a mitzvah, taming more serious activities and perhaps weaning off them. At their level, being a foodie could be wonderful.

    Most of us are somewhere in the middle. (Wolf will undoubtedly chime in here that farbeit for him to be anywhere else than the bottom of the barrel, if I haven’t forgotten the CR entirely). Being in the middle means each of us needs to assess, honestly, whether we’re indulging purely for the sake of pleasure, or actually trying to appreciate Hashem’s creations. I personally have a very difficult time believing that a man who does things for the sake of Heaven would be caught dead ‘horeving’ over a slab of meat; maybe by a woman it’s different. If someone is genuinely trying to get closer to Hashem, being a foodie (focusing a great deal of energy and time on preparing and eating the most delicious food you can find) doesn not seem like a productive lifestyle, from a spiritual perspective, and probably can’t be considered erlich.

    #1458309

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Grills and BBQing is considering more of a male domain and those products are marketed towards men

    #1458401

    DaasYochid โ˜•
    Participant

    It seems there there are two questions here: is being a foodie being a naval birshus haTorah, and does being a naval birshus haTorah make one not ehrlich.

    #1458397

    GAON
    Participant

    All these are Dargos in erlichkeit’. As the Rambam says:

    ืฆืจื™ืš ื”ืื“ื ืฉื™ื›ื•ื•ืŸ ืœื‘ื• ื•ื›ืœ ืžืขืฉื™ื• ื›ื•ืœื ืœื™ื“ืข ืืช ื”ืฉื ื‘ืจื•ืš ื”ื•ื ื‘ืœื‘ื“. ื•ื™ื”ื™ื” ืฉื‘ืชื• ื•ืงื•ืžื• ื•ื“ื‘ื•ืจื• ื”ื›ืœ ืœืขื•ืžืช ื–ื” ื”ื“ื‘ืจ. ื›ื™ืฆื“ ื›ืฉื™ืฉื ื•ื™ืชืŸ ืื• ื™ืขืฉื” ืžืœืื›ื” ืœื™ื˜ื•ืœ ืฉื›ืจ. ืœื ื™ื”ื™ื” ื‘ืœื‘ื• ืœืงื‘ื•ืฅ ืžืžื•ืŸ ื‘ืœื‘ื“ ืืœื ื™ืขืฉื” ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ื”ืืœื• ื›ื“ื™ ืฉื™ืžืฆื ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ืฉื”ื’ื•ืฃ ืฆืจื™ืš ืœื”ื ืžืื›ื™ืœื” ื•ืฉืชื™ื” ื•ื™ืฉื™ื‘ืช ื‘ื™ืช ื•ื ืฉื™ืืช ืืฉื”. ื•ื›ืŸ ื›ืฉื™ืื›ืœ ื•ื™ืฉืชื” ื•ื™ื‘ืขื•ืœ ืœื ื™ืฉื™ื ื‘ืœื‘ื• ืœืขืฉื•ืช ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ื”ืืœื• ื›ื“ื™ ืœื™ื”ื ื•ืช ื‘ืœื‘ื“ ืขื“ ืฉื ืžืฆื ืฉืื™ื ื• ืื•ื›ืœ ื•ืฉื•ืชื” ืืœื ื”ืžืชื•ืง ืœื—ื™ืš ื•ื™ื‘ืขื•ืœ ื›ื“ื™ ืœื™ื”ื ื•ืช. ืืœื ื™ืฉื™ื ืขืœ ืœื‘ื• ืฉื™ืื›ืœ ื•ื™ืฉืชื” ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ื‘ืจื•ืช ื’ื•ืคื• ื•ืื™ื‘ืจื™ื• ื‘ืœื‘ื“. ืœืคื™ื›ืš ืœื ื™ืื›ืœ ื›ืœ ืฉื”ื—ื™ืš ืžืชืื•ื” ื›ื›ืœื‘ ื•ื—ืžื•ืจ ืืœื ื™ืื›ืœ ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ื”ืžื•ืขื™ืœื™ื ืœื’ื•ืฃ ืื ืžืจื™ื ืื ืžืชื•ืงื™ื. ื•ืœื ื™ืื›ืœ ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ื”ืจืขื™ื ืœื’ื•ืฃ ืืข”ืค ืฉื”ืŸ ืžืชื•ืงื™ื ืœื—ื™ืš. ื›ื™ืฆื“ ืžื™ ืฉื”ื™ื” ื‘ืฉืจื• ื—ื ืœื ื™ืื›ืœ ื‘ืฉืจ ื•ืœื ื“ื‘ืฉ ื•ืœื ื™ืฉืชื” ื™ื™ืŸ. ื›ืขื ื™ืŸ ืฉืืžืจ ืฉืœืžื” ื“ืจืš ืžืฉืœ ืื›ื•ืœ ื“ื‘ืฉ ื•ื’ื•’. ื•ืฉื•ืชื” ืžื™ ื”ืขื•ืœืฉื™ืŸ ืืข”ืค ืฉื”ื•ื ืžืจ ืฉื ืžืฆื ืฉื•ืชื” ื•ืื•ื›ืœ ื“ืจืš ืจืคื•ืื” ื‘ืœื‘ื“ ื›ื“ื™ ืฉื™ื‘ืจื™ื ื•ื™ืขืžื•ื“ ืฉืœื. ื”ื•ืื™ืœ ื•ืื™ ืืคืฉืจ ืœืื“ื ืœื—ื™ื•ืช ืืœื ื‘ืื›ื™ืœื” ื•ืฉืชื™ื”.
    The Kesef Mishnah comments:
    ืฆืจื™ืš ื”ืื“ื ืฉื™ื›ื•ื™ืŸ ืœื‘ื• ื•ืžืขืฉื™ื• ื›ื•ืœื ืœื™ื“ืข ืืช ื”ืฉื ื•ื›ื•’ ืขื“ ืกื•ืฃ ื”ืคืจืง.- ื›ืœืœ ื›ืœ ื–ื” ื‘ืื‘ื•ืช ื“ืจื‘ื™ ื ืชืŸ ื•ืื•ืžืจ ืฉื- ืฉื›ืœ ื”ืขื•ืฉื” ื›ืŸ ื ืงืจื ืงื“ื•ืฉ:

    http://www.hebrewbooks.org/rambam.aspx?mfid=81653&rid=104

    See Shmonah Prakim of the Rambam Ch 5 for more.

    Rabenu Yona says :
    ื•ืืœ ื™ืžืœื ื›ืœ ืชืื•ื•ืชื™ื• ืœื ื‘ืžืื›ืœ ื•ืœื ื‘ืžืฉืชื”. ื•ื›ืŸ ืืžืจ ื”ืจื‘ ืจื‘ื™ ืื‘ืจื”ื ื‘ืจ ื“ื•ื“, ืฉื”ื™ื” ืื—ื“ ืžื—ืกื™ื“ื™ ืขื•ืœื, ื”ื’ื“ืจ ื”ื’ื“ื•ืœ ื”ืžืขืœื” ื”ืžื•ืคืœื ืžื ื™ืขืช ื”ืžืื›ืœื•ืช. ื•ื›ืŸ ืคื™ืจืฉ ื“ื‘ืจื™ื•, ืืœ ื™ืขื–ื‘ ืœื’ืžืจื™ ืžืœืื›ื•ืœ ื‘ืฉืจ ื•ืœืฉื•ืชื•ืช ื™ื™ืŸ, ื›ื™ ื“ื™ื™ืš ืžื” ืฉืืกืจื” ืชื•ืจื”, ืืš ื‘ืขืช ืžืื›ืœื• ื•ืขื•ื“ื ื• ืชืื‘ ืœืื›ื•ืœ, ื™ื ื™ื— ืžืžื ื• ืœื›ื‘ื•ื“ ื”ื‘ื•ืจื ืžืชืื•ื•ืชื™ื• ื•ืืœ ื™ืื›ืœ ื›ืคื™ ืชืื•ืชื•, ื•ื“ืจืš ื–ื• ืชืžื ืขื ื• ืžื—ื˜ื•ื, ื•ืชื–ื›ื™ืจื ื• ืื”ื‘ืช ื”ื‘ื•ืจื ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžืชืขื ื™ืช ืื—ื“ ื‘ืฉื‘ื•ืข, ื›ื™ ื–ื” ื‘ื›ืœ ื™ื•ื ืชืžื™ื“, ืžื“ื™ ืื›ืœื• ื•ืžื“ื™ ืฉืชื•ืชื•, ื™ื ื™ื— ืžืชืื•ื•ืชื• ืœื›ื‘ื•ื“ ื”ื‘ื•ืจื.
    – ื™ืกื•ื“ ื”ืชืฉื•ื‘ื” –

    The Shlah ืฉืขืจ ื”ืื•ืชื™ื•ืช ืื•ืช ืง:

    ืกืขื™ืฃ ื‘’, ืฆืจื™ืš ื”ืื“ื ืœื”ืชืงื“ืฉ ืขืœ ืฉืœื—ื ื• ื‘ืกืขื•ื“ืชื•, ืืžืจื• ืจื–”ืœ ืงื“ื•ืฉื™ื ืชื”ื™ื• ืœื™ ืงื“ืฉ ืขืฆืžืš ื‘ืžื•ืชืจ ืœืš. ืขืœ ื›ืŸ ืœื ื™ื”ื™ื” ื’ืจื’ืจืŸ ื•ื‘ืœืขืŸ ืืœื ื›ืื•ื›ืœ ืœืคื ื™ ืžืœืš ื”ื›ื‘ื•ื“, ืžื™ ื–ื” ืžืœืš ื”ื›ื‘ื•ื“, ื”’ ืฆื‘-ืื•ืช ื”ื•ื ืžืœืš ื”ื›ื‘ื•ื“ ืกืœื”, ื•ืกื™ืžื ืš ื•ืื›ืœืช ืœืคื ื™ ื”’ ืืœืงื™ืš ืจื•ืฆื” ืœื•ืžืจ ืฉืชื—ืฉื•ื‘ ื‘ืฉืขืช ืื›ื™ืœืชืš ืฉืืชื” ืื•ื›ืœ ืœืคื ื™ ื”ืืœืงื™ื, ื•ืฉืื™ืŸ ืžื—ื™ืฆื” ืžืคืกืงืช ื‘ื™ื ืš ืœื‘ื™ืŸ ื™ืชื‘ืจืš, ื•ื‘ื•ื“ืื™ ืžื—ืฉื‘ื” ื›ื–ื• ืžื‘ื™ืื” ื”ืื“ื ืœื™ื“ื™ ืงื“ื•ืฉื” ื•ื˜ื”ืจื” ื•ืžืœื‘ืฉืชื• ืขื ื•ื” ื•ื™ืจืื”, ื•ื”ื™ื” ืžื•ืจื ืฉืžื™ื ืขืœื™ื• ื•ืœื ืชื”ื™ื” ืื– ืื›ื™ืœืชื• ืœืžืœื ืชืื•ืชื•, ืจืง ืืฉืจ ื™ืื›ืœ ืœื›ืœ ื ืคืฉ ื”ื•ื ืœื‘ื“ื• ื™ืขืฉื” ืœื• ื•ื”ื™ื•ืชืจ ื™ื—ืจื™ื… ื•ื”ื•ื ืฉื™ื›ื•ื™ืŸ ืืœ ื”ืžืฆื•ืช ื”ื ื•ื”ื’ื™ื ื‘ืกืขื•ื“ื” ื•ื‘ื–ื” ื”ื™ื ืžืงื•ื™ื™ืžืช ืืฆืœ ื”ื’ื•ืฃ, ื•ื‘ื›ืœ ืžื” ืฉื™ืื›ืœ ื•ื™ืฉืชื” ื‘ื•ืจืจ ืœื” ืžื ื” ื™ืคื” ืžื™ื•ื—ื“ืช ืœื”. ื›ื™ ืื ื”ื™ื ืกืขื•ื“ืช ืžืฆื•ื” ื”ืžืฆื•ื” ื”ื”ื™ื ืชื”ื™ื” ื—ืœืง ื”ื ืคืฉ ื•ื”ืžื ื” ืืฉืจ ื‘ื” ืชืชืงื™ื™ื, ืื• ืฉื™ื›ื•ื™ืŸ ืืœ ื”ืžืฆื•ืช ื”ืชืœื•ื™ื•ืช ื‘ืกืขื•ื“ื” ื”ื”ื™ื ืžื›ืฉืจื•ืช ื”ืžืื›ืœื™ื ื•ื”ืจื—ืงื•ืช ื”ืืกื•ืจื™ื ืœืคื™ ื“ืจื›ื™ ื”ืชื•ืจื”, ืื• ืฉื™ื›ื•ื™ืŸ ืืœ ื‘ืจื›ื•ืชื™ื”ื ืื• ืœื”ืกืขื™ื“ ื”ื’ื•ืฃ ื•ืœื”ื‘ืจื™ืื• ืœืขืžื•ื“ ืœืฉืจืช ืœืคื ื™ ืืœืงื™ื• ื‘ืชื•ืฉื™ื•ืช ื”ืชื•ืจื” ื•ื”ืขื‘ื•ื“ื” ื•ืœืฆืืช ื•ืœื‘ื ืžื›ืœ ื“ื‘ืจ ืฉื‘ืงื“ื•ืฉื”, ื›ื™ ื‘ืืžืช ื”ื›ื•ื•ื ื•ืช ื”ืืœื• ื”ื ื›ื‘ื“ื•ืช ื•ื”ืจื•ื—ื ื™ื•ืช ื™ืขืžื™ื“ื• ื”ื ืคืฉ ื”ื ื›ื‘ื“ืช ื•ื™ืงื™ื™ืžื• ืื•ืชื”, ื›ื™ ื”ื™ื ืงื•ื“ืฉ ื•ืžืŸ ื”ืงื“ืฉื™ื ืชืื›ืœ…

    One could argue that to official term yourself as a ‘Foodie’ goes against everything Avodas HaShem stands for. Yes, regular people are not on that level, i.e. that all we do, and especially eat are l’Shem Shomayim, BUT we should at least try to strive for it and not term yourself a Foodie. The sforim do say that it is much easier to fast many Tanesim l’shem shomayim than eat a single meal lshem Shomayim.

    On the other hand, we find many Halachos based on the fact that one should not “look’ like a Foodie i.e. ื’ืจื’ืจืŸ or ืจืขื‘ืชืŸ like in Meshechet Kalah:
    ืœื ื™ืื›ืœ ืื“ื ื‘ื›ืœ ืืฆื‘ืขื•ืชื™ื• ืžืคื ื™ ืฉื ืจืื” ื›ื’ืจื’ืจืŸ

    Similar in Shu”A OC 170:11
    ืœื ื™ืฉืชื” ืื“ื ืฉื ื™ ื›ื•ืกื•ืช ื‘ื‘ืช ืื—ืช ื‘ืชื•ืš ืกืขื•ื“ืชื• ื•ื™ื‘ืจืš ื‘ืจื›ืช ื”ืžื–ื•ืŸ- ืžืคื ื™ ืฉื ืจืื” ื›ื’ืจื’ืจืŸ.

    Hence, no need to say one should not call himself a ‘ื’ืจื’ืจืŸ’.

    #1458413

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Thanks gaon. That was well presented.

    #1458762

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    “Youโ€™re not supposed to understand chumash at your age the way you understood it at three. A primitive understanding of the avos should not serve as your yardstick for life…”
    Actually, I am a great believer in the admonition from chazal that “everything you need to know in life, you learned in kindergarden”…….it also lends credence to the commonly encountered phenomena that “Your Gashmiyus Is My Ruchniyus” whether on food or any other indulgence that doesn’t involve shteiging 24×7

    #1459038

    Toi
    Participant

    Gadolhadorah- Please rephrase your previous post in proper english. I don’t understand it.

    #1459196

    GAON said it better than I could have.
    Terming yourself a foodie is basically announcing to everyone that you indulge in the taivoh of food too often.
    Say you like food, say your a chef, a caterer, tell people that you’re good with food, it’s your hobby, or that your naturally inclined to be a food critic or something…

    #1460038

    GAON
    Participant

    “Your Gashmiyus Is My Ruchniyusโ€ whether on food or any other indulgence that doesnโ€™t involve shteiging 24ร—7”

    Gadol,

    You can not pasken from Chumash, we have the Talmud and a Shulchan Aruch. As I have posted earlier, we find many Halachos indicating that one should make all efforts not to “appear” as a “Foodie”, let alone officially calling yourself one. See Shulchan Aruch OC siman 170 .

    #1460208

    mitzvamobile
    Participant

    Sure the Mitzva is to Enjoy! Hence it is called ื‘ืจื›ื•ืช ื”ื ื”ื ื™ืŸ

    ื‘ืจื›ื•ืช ื”ื ื”ื ื™ืŸ ื ืืžืจื•ืช ื’ื ื‘ื”ื–ื“ืžื ื•ื™ื•ืช ืฉื•ื ื•ืช ื”ืงืฉื•ืจื•ืช ืœื—ื•ืฉื™ื ืื—ืจื™ื
    Bringing up Mussar Sforim that were written under the influence of the Monastics and Churchs is no argument, Chazal do talk about it but it is a view of people who hated life, and they served God by hating life, including not getting married or holding a child out of exclusive love for GOD

    It is very important that Rabonim point out these people who are masochists and sadists as not coming from Torah but suing it to Quote mine

    #1460248

    Mabe1497
    Participant

    Sorry to Wright this way but you are really stupid man/women there’s a Gamura that says that a woman gets her joy from new nice cloths and a man from wine & meat so obviously there is such a thing al pi Torah that a man can njoy his food and not only can he njoy but the gamura says ein Simcha eilu babusar and if a man is happy it helps to be a better jew

    #1460255

    Meno
    Participant

    Sorry to Wright this way

    You most certainly should be

    #1460284

    “Foodie” seems a bad translation of “garg’ron.”

    #1460333

    ๐Ÿ‘‘RebYidd23
    Participant

    Mabe, I have some insults for you if you are interested, but I don’t want to hurt your feelings. They are perfectly accurate, but I’ll only post them if you give me permission.

    #1460334

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    Just a reminder, the OP’s question was not about appreciating and deriving pleasure from Hashem’s world and enjoying the food that we eat, the question was about making such enjoyment a priority to the extent that it defines the person and his purpose in life.

    #1460357

    GAON
    Participant

    Random, please explain what the very issue is with appearing like a ืจืขื‘ืชืŸ . What is wrong with drinking two cups one after the other? Agreed it’s not the the literal translation, it’s in a way above, as Winnie (well said!) and others have pointed out.

    #1460358

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Wtp
    ” the question was about making such enjoyment a priority to the extent that it defines the person and his purpose in life”

    No it wasn’t. True that’s how some reinterpreted the question. As most realize the way the questuin was asked was a bit silly. But that is not what was asked.
    Here it is again: “Food is not eaten for sustenance or wellbeing, it is just for the pursuit of pleasure alone.
    Can an Ehrlicher Yid be a Foodie?”

    Scroll up for the full question

    #1460440

    GAON
    Participant

    Meno,
    Reminds me of the old saying : “Two wrongs don’t make a right. But two Wrights make a plane.” One writing wright can make someone _______

    #1460563

    GAON
    Participant

    Ubiq
    “Here it is again: โ€œFood is not eaten for sustenance or wellbeing, it is just for the pursuit of pleasure alone.”

    The OP just quoted a Wiki definition , but basically the issue was if one can declare himself a Ba’al Tavah. No one here eats ONLY for sustenance or wellbeing, we are not at that level yet…so obviously a Foodie is not that.

Viewing 50 posts - 1 through 50 (of 85 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.


Trending