Chabad Shlichus – Risk of Sacrificing Own Family’s Ruchniyos?

Home Coffeeroom Family Matters Chabad Shlichus – Risk of Sacrificing Own Family’s Ruchniyos?

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  • #1460366

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Jeesh, I thought there was a word limit. Did he just suggest that every goyish holiday is anti-Semitic except for Christmas? Including, apparently, the whole season of Autumn.

    #1460431

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    hml-“They daven every day. Before bed, they daven, learn RamBam (I am talking about pre-bar/bat mitzvah) say Krias Shema etc. ”

    -Interesting, who knew chabad chinuch was so much better than everyone elses? Daven every day? I cant believe those Litvaks never thought to be mechaneh their kids to daven “every” single day! Thanks for that crazy suggestion maybe they should try it.
    Oh they learn Rambam? Dont Litvish kids learn Seforim of Gedoilim? Btw was the Rambam the only Lubavitcher sage of the past? Couldve fooled me since it seems you only learn Rambam while the rest of the world learn not ONLY Rambam, but also GR”A, Chofetz Chaim, Chasam Sofer and so on. But I guess its better to limit yourself to one book.
    Krias Shema? Who does that anymore? Isnt that out of style? Why would anyone want to teach their kids to say krias Shema unless they are chabad?

    “They are all tzanua, no matter the temperature.”
    -Ill assume your only referring to bochurim, then shkoyach for being “tzanua” in hot temperatures since litvishe bochurim usually just slap on a tank top and shorts in the summer without tzitzis as they sit and learn in Yeshiva right?

    “They are just as happy with clothes from Target as many kids are from the fanciest stores in Boro Park or Monsey…or Lakewood.”
    -lol

    I mean “thats the difference between us and them” right? Isnt that your favorite line?

    #1460441

    hml
    Participant

    Dear Chabad Shlucha,

    If you are OK with Joseph making sweet comments like

    “What’s this business about you speaking to the Rebbe, writing to the Rebbe, and the Rebbe giving you answers and advice? Do you go to his Ohel for these speaking/writing and find a note from him written upstairs in Shamayim and sent downstairs to you in your mailbox?”

    Then good luck to you. Because I find such comments….harsh (your word). Not to mention sarcastic & disrespectful. But if he is stranded near my kids in the middle of Europe where they don’t speak English, Yiddish, or Hebrew (as my children & grandchildren do) he’ll be very happy to be helped by them until he can get back to his little narrow-minded enclave.

    #1460576

    5ish
    Participant

    Refuah Shelaima Litvosherchossid

    #1460585

    Geordie613
    Participant

    @cs, Thanks for your reply about Gateshead/Newcastle above.

    @joseph, Chinuch Shlichus, is where the shluchim live ‘In town’ but teach in the mosdos hachinuch. (Am I right?) Ohr LaGolah also has this type of graduates.

    @joseph, “Geordie613+1 = Geordie614”
    Incorrect. Firstly, Geordie(613+1) = Geordie614. Secondly, 614 is NOT a thing.

    #1460609

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    When something is easy it becomes roate and ordinary. Does someone get a bigger Schar for keeping Shabbos in Borough park or hickstown USA where there is barely a minyan and you really have to struggle to keep shabbos.

    Do you get a bigger Schar for eating on 13th Ave in Borough Park or because of Lack of any kosher restaurants you can never eat out especially Chinese or Pizza

    #1460614

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Hml. I do think it could have been worded better, but I can understand where he is coming from because since I was born the year of gimmel tammuz, if you’re not lubavitch, it is not your typical thing if you get what I mean. And if that gets you frustrated, probably better not to comment on here at all because there definitely is a wariness of this kind of stuff here even if you being all the sources! For example, my comment responding to that one that I can’t answer unless I’m able to answer fully, took forever to come through.

    Is that harsh? Possibly or it is just fear of the unknown. I don’t know. But if that bothers you, then it’s not just Joseph and I welcome the questions as a chance to explain. (If I am allowed).

    #1460615

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Geordie613 yes you are right except that technically only if you move out of the center, Crown heights, to devote yourself to chinuch, is it chinuch shlichus.

    #1460786

    Sechel HaYashar
    Participant

    @LitvisheMisnaged,
    Wow you’re back with all the hate! You are such a troll, it’s incredible.
    “-Ill assume your only referring to bochurim, then shkoyach for being “tzanua” in hot temperatures since litvishe bochurim usually just slap on a tank top and shorts in the summer without tzitzis as they sit and learn in Yeshiva right?”

    I spent time in Miami, and I noticed many Litvishe bochurim who normally sit and learn in Lakewood with a white shirt and black pants, stroll around in T Shirts and shorts. So for you it is a big deal to be outside of the community and still dress properly.

    #1460799

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    Sechel haakum- and I’m the one spreading hate! Haha. You know how many lubavitchers I observed sitting in yeshiva with shorts! I was surprised when I for the first time saw a lubavitcher wearing a black hat and jacket I didn’t know it was customary by their bochurim.
    Hml was smart bringing up the bochurim being tznius since if he brought up the women the argument would have ended right then and there.

    #1460804

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    Enough of bashing all the other Yidden outside chabad. I wonder what mod is sitting in letting comments through making it sound that all is true since some hateful people comment on their “observations” of litvishe bochurim.
    I wonder how many faults there are in chabad that none of these zealots will ever mention, only point fingers at everyone else. Take these previous comments for example, when a lubavitcher has what to say about everyone else it’s ok but when someone answers back and puts them in their place then they are hateful.
    But because some nobody claims what they want, then noone is allowed to answer back! That’s not how it works.

    #1460806

    out of town yid
    Participant

    A while ago, I attempted to try to buy a white shirt, and a decent pair of black dress pants here where I am…I went to quite a few stores, nothing to be found. I was told that nobody uses such clothes anymore, especially here. I am too formal in dress. And what they did have I would not be caught in at all. I was told that there was no market for what I wanted to buy. Only for the trash they were selling.

    #1460849

    Sechel HaYashar
    Participant

    @LitvisheMisnaged,
    “You know how many lubavitchers I observed sitting in yeshiva with shorts! ”
    Zero.

    #1460853

    Sechel HaYashar
    Participant

    @OOTY,
    Why don’t you try Walmart? I’ve been to hick towns all over, the nearest Walmart (not always so near) will always carry white shirts and black dress pants, although, if you’re near homeless, you don’t need to be spending your money on Yeshivish clothes.

    #1460860

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Hml was smart bringing up the bochurim being tznius since if he brought up the women the argument would have ended right then and there.

    This is unfortunately true, and I once discussed this with an old time Lubavicher who was very disturbed by it.

    I think it’s hard not to attribute it to Chabad’s willingness to be so exposed to the outside world.

    #1460902

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    You can buy whatever clothes you want on Amazon, no need to buy locally if they dont have it

    #1460869

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Na is just that allot more people call themselves lubavitch. Just had this discussion with some beis Yaakov teachers – they said they also have their graduates who aren’t so tzanua unfortunately. I guess they just don’t get called BY if they dress like that? But the lubavitch graduates who dress that way still call themselves lubavitch. So what’s the difference?

    #1460888

    Toi
    Participant

    @chabadshlucha I think we’ll all welcome the explanation of how it’s muttar to daven to a mimutzah, unless the Rebbe is Atzmuso Yisborach, like it says in his sicha, in which case we’ve got a much bigger problem.

    #1460911

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    So what’s the difference?

    The difference is that the lack of tznius is worse in Chabad than any other group which considers itself chareidi, and certainly any group which calls itself chassidish.

    #1460915

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    Lol, always an excuse for everything.

    #1460949

    Phil
    Participant

    “The difference is that the lack of tznius is worse in Chabad than any other group which considers itself chareidi, and certainly any group which calls itself chassidish.”

    Not true. There are too many Chabad women, even in shlichus, who don’t dress as they should. Someone in the know once characterized their clothing choices as “trendy, tight and tiger-print”. However, there are certain neighborhoods in New York, near a number of leading yeshivos, where the men dress like they just left the Beis Medrash while their wives and daughters dress like they just left a Vogue shoot.

    #1460968

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    DY if you’re talking about schools/ communities that don’t accept children to school and cut off contact with adults who don’t keep to their standards then you may be right. Although technically not fair comparison because those families and adults that were turned away make a certain percentage that we do take in.

    If you’re saying mosdos / communities that operate like it’s where we don’t deny a proper chinuch to a child because of his family background etc. then I think it’s the same. Our girls who are seriously into Yiddishkeit, lubavitch “chassidish” as it’s termed, are fully tznius. Those who don’t take things as seriously are no worse off than the same from beis Yaakov.

    We are sound more to strengthen tznius, in eretz Yisrael there have been tznius support and discussion groups called maagalim which has now spread worldwide and happy to hear of more ideas.

    My point is that it’s unfortunately a global issue because of today’s society which bombards us with everything opposite. Not just an issue in Chabad.

    #1460969

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Anyhow back to toi, you have a different question than Joseph : his is how today’s lubavitchers maintain hiskashrus, yours is about the role of tzaddikim in general.

    Just a note of caution: I don’t think it’s OK, smart or acceptable to talk about a Gadol BYisrael, Nassi hador whatever term your want to use, as if you’re greater than him when your are nowhere close. Kal vchomer to condescend. That’s in general. If you don’t understand something you can ask to clarify respectfully as we’re all meant to treat Daas Torah.

    Not to mention that in your post you are clueless, as the way you understand the Rebbe’s words is completely skewed. Similar maybe, to a goy who sees Jews call themselves the chosen nation, and therefore concludes we must want to treat all goyim like the Nazis did. Completely off. That’s fine because you haven’t learned pnimius HaTorah so it makes sense you can be clueless in those areas, and I’m happy to fill you in but your post was really phrased inappropriately.

    Anyhow, I’m happy to address as long as the mods don’t mind as stated. If they’d rather keep the topics to less deep and pareve stuff like the price of fruit on tu bshvat, doctor advice, and tourist destinations, that is their right, but it means I can’t answer on this forum.

    So if you are curious, I guess try opening a thread on the topic.

    #1460980

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    However, there are certain neighborhoods in New York, near a number of leading yeshivos, where the men dress like they just left the Beis Medrash while their wives and daughters dress like they just left a Vogue shoot.

    I’m not denying that. Tznius is lacking in many areas. Chabad is still worse, and I think that for various reasons, some correlated with their outreach, they have modernized themselves, and the lack in tznius, which is even worse than elsewhere, is a result.

    #1460983

    Toi
    Participant

    @chabadshlucha Joseph’s question and mine are the same for the purpose of this discussion.

    I reckon I have more experience in pnimiyus then you do, and thank G-d this forum is anonymous, or I might get thrown out of my (very litvishe) Kollel for saying so. Though truthfully, you may be right, I strongly suspect this is not the case. Before we even go there, let us please not confuse chassidus , specifically that of Chabad, with Kabbalah. They are not the same.

    I don’t know if the modding has gotten more strict, and derailing a thread gets your posts banned, in any case I’m glad to open a thread on the topic. I must admit, I’m encouraged the sinas chinam card wasn’t played off the bat, and perhaps we can have a discussion that will bear results. Please look out for my thread.

    #1460990

    5ish
    Participant

    Toi will you please pass me the ketchup?

    Whoops! Seems like I just davened to a mimutzah. Should have asked the Aibishter for the ketchup.

    #1461104

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Will do toi.

    #1461136

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    No 5ish nebach, you asked him to pass you the ketchup, you didn’t daven to him for it. There’s a difference. When it comes to davening, we daven direct to Hashem and noone else. Don’t know how it goes by you guys but our mindset is different.

    #1461152

    Toi
    Participant

    @5ish How very astute of you. My, I can’t even recall what all the fuss is about.

    #1461230

    5ish
    Participant

    ” you didn’t daven to him for it.” DUH. That is precisely what I am pointing out. Asking people to do things for you is not the same as Davening.

    #1461305

    Toi
    Participant

    @5ish What about asking dead people?

    #1461430

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    Interesting mashal, 5ish.
    So if you ask Hashem for rain, or a shidduch, or parnassa or a refua shleima, since you are asking Him to do things for you, it is not davening? What then is davening? Only the shevach part, not the bakasha? Or are you trying to say that it is who you are turning to that defines it as davening- if I ask Hashem to give me $2000 to pay my rent it is davening, but if I ask a person, it is not.
    If you asked someone to pass the ketchup and there is no ketchup in the house, or the person is miles away- meaning it is beyond the ability of that person to do what you asked, but you turn to him anyway assuming he has some super-natural ability to help you, is that ok?

    I’d like to remind everyone of an exchange between Rochel and Yaakov- Rochel demands of Yaakov: Hava li bonim- give me kids, or it’s if I am dead. Yaakov got angry at her and answers, Hatachas Elokim anochi- am I instead of G-d who has withheld kids from you? Yaakov felt it was inappropriate of Rochel to ask him to do something that only Hashem can do. Rochel’s answer was (see Rashi), your father davened for your mother…meaning, her intent was not that Yaakov should be the one bringing her kids, but he should daven to Hashem for her so that Hashem would give her kids, just like Yitzchak did for Rivka. He answers- but unlike Yitzchak, I have kids, it is you who needs to daven. Rochel answers- then daven like Avraham who did not have kids. Yaakov- but Sora gave Avraham her shifcha. So Rochel gives Yaakov her shifcha, and has surrogate kids through her, and eventually, her own children.
    A lot of important hashkafa here- the power of a tzaddik’s tefiilla vs the power of the tefilla of an individual with a need. The importance of hishtadlus- or some would call it a segula- to actualize a tefilla. And the fine line between believing that the tzaddik has G-d-like ability (which is what Yaakov was afraid Rochel was saying) vs the Tzaddik is intervening with Hashem (which is what Rochel meant).

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