I am often shterred by tzedaka collectors coming to me in middle of davening. I'm not talking about during the hoiecha shmona esra, but rather every other part of davening from piseukei dizimra right through oleinu. The only exception is during the shtille shemone esra.
Am I wrong for being bothered by this? How best to handle? Is it a machlokes poskim whether it is permitted to collect during the entire tefila (as clearly the Rov in many shul's allow it)?
Best idea is to "daven" in Yehudah Levin's "shul"
Here comes HaLeiVi...
My shule has a rule - no collecting during davening. The collector can wait until davening is finished and give his spiel then.
In the old days I went to a shule where people would wander around collecting all thru the davening. I refused to give during that time. I wouldn't interrupt someone else's davening, and I expected that mine would be uninterrupted as well.
If I don't have change, just asking for change it middle of davening is a whole shter on my davening.
What I don't understand is how they make appeals during Aleinu and recite Kaddish right afterwards. Mima Nafshach, one of them wasn't done: either the appeal was a waste of energy or Aleinu was not said. If the latter is the case, why would you say Kaddish after an appeal?
As for the main point being discussed, some things are not polarizable. It is a problem that they Shter and it is a problem to send away Aniyim.
My Shul rules: No collecting from Barchu till after Chazaras Hashatz and not during Leining and no appeal till after total Davening; strictly enforced.
I nearly cracked up recently; the collector was going around collecting with a portable credit card machine!
I've seen some of them using portable credit card machines for a couple of years already. (Usually the ones that give a klap on bima towards the end of davening for an organizational appeal.)
tbt:
'Here comes HaLeiVi'
Is HE a collector?!?
It is wrong to interrupt someone from their kavanah and davening for your own agenda. That is disrespectful and totally inconsiderate. If you want the mispallelim to be considerate of your situation then you have to have respect for them and be patient.
Cherry, I am pretty sure I know WHERE you daven, I used to daven there (or at least a place that has the same exact rule). Which minyan do you go to?
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I dont know if they are doing the right thing but as far as you are concerned, think of this...
When Avrohom Aveinu was talking with Hashem he noticed 3 men, he interrupted his conversation and ran to them, and after they left he went back to talking with Hashem.
2qwerty: HE ran to them. They didn't approach him. In fact that turned away from him. What you are saying is more akin to a couple of shuls I am familiar with where there are a bunch of pushkas on a table toward the front. People walk over to the table and distribute as they wish.
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Mayan_Dvash - name of street where shul is on?
Ave L.
The analogy to Avraham Avinu is flawed in several ways.
As has been pointed out, Avraham ran to the orchim, they did not approach Avraham. Moreover, Avraham did not come to hashem to ask for his daily needs. Hashem came to visit Avraham. Do you feel it is appropriate to approach a king or even a local politician and petition him for your needs and then run off to give tzedaka to someone? would Avraham have run over to the Orchim had he approached hashem? You may certainly speculate that he would have, but you just dont know. The analogy is faulty.
I dont know what the halacha is. I try to follow the guidelines as set down by the shul I am davening in. In my neighborhood there is a shul that has a posted policy that asks all collectors to refrain from collecting from yishtabach until after shmone esrei. Another that has a posted notice asking all to refrain from collecting in the shul the entire davening and others with no request at all. I assume, rightly or wrongly that the Rav of the shul has done his homework before posting the request.
I remember an incident that occurred in the shul that instituted the "no collecting during davening", shortly after the policy went into effect. Someone related the following story to the Rav of the shul. 250 years ago, the leaders of the city of Vilna (parnassei hair?) wanted to enact a takanah that nobody be allowed to collect tzedaka in the streets, and instead should go to the gabbai. They felt that it would improve the decorum in the streets. They wanted the Haskamah of the Gra before enacting this takanah. He replied, why come to me, this was already approved by the Vaad Arbah Aratzos. They came back later and said to the Gra, we checked through the seforim of the Vaad and we can not find such a takanah. He replied, you misunderstoood, the Arbah Aratzos I was talking about are Sedom etc.. (yes, some were taken aback at the brashness of this fellow and the implicaiton of the story). The Rav told him, i am aware of the story, and your analogy of the shul policy to that story is flawed. I am wiling to discuss it with you in my office after davening. What happened during the discussion, I dont know, but the policy is still in effect.
Are you saying it is more reasonable to run out from the the presence of king when he came to visit you than if it was for your benefit?
You say that he ran towards them and they didn't run towards him. Now, had they run toward him, would he have ignored them or sent them to the Gabbai?
I'm saying the analogy is not all that clear. I'm not saying what you should or should not do, that's your Ravs job.
Mayan_Dvash, it's not the one. For some reason my earlier post to you with more of a message did not show or was deleted.
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