Daas Torah for Goyim

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  • #1439285
    M
    Participant

    Question – for those people who believe gedolei torah should be consulted on all questions, even non-Torah ones, or who else believe that basically every question is a Torah question – in an ideal world, would non-Jews also ask the gedolim questions too? I was thinking about this after the recent ticketing near BMG. In an ideal world, would the LPD have consulted with the roshei yeshiva to ask them how to proceed? Or should they have asked them whether there parking in those areas should be altogether ok? On one hand maybe it’s a sakanah, on the other, perhaps outlawing parking causes more bitul torah?

    #1439295
    Joseph
    Participant

    The goyim are obligated in the Sheva Mitzvos. The Sheva Mitzvos have complexities. And who are the best experts on the Sheva Mitzvos? The goyim are also required to treat Yidden in accordance with Torah law.

    #1439305
    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    Joseph is drinking his coolaid again.

    #1439312
    M
    Participant

    I actually don’t understand what Joseph means. Joseph, are you saying they’re chayav in sheva mitzvose, and included in that is listening to daas torah? Or are you saying they’re only chayav in sheva, l’afukei daas torah? or do you mean something else?

    Also, what do you mean that goyim are required to treat Yidden in accordance with Torah law? Do you mean that goyim can’t write tickets? or they can write tickets? I actually don’t know what “Torah law” says about prohibiting parking in certain areas and writing tickets for people that do. Or, do you mean that of course this is included in dina d’malchua dina?

    #1439325
    Joseph
    Participant

    Daas Torah isn’t one of the seven Mitzvos. But Daas Torah are the biggest experts in interpreting the 7 Mitzvos and how they apply to any particular situation.

    Interactions between gentiles and Jews are governed by Halacha rather than the Sheva Mitzvos.

    #1439365
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    What is the Halacha if someone is late for Minyan and needs to park in front of a Hydrant in order to make the Minyan? Is he Chayiv a ticket or is he Patur because he is doing a Mitzvah

    #1439369
    M
    Participant

    Ok, great, so just to be clear, are you, Joseph, suggesting that the Lakewood PD, for example, is chayav to ask the gedolei hador about what traffic rules they can enact and enforce near BMG? And the explanation for this is that they are chayav in sheva mitzvose, and the gedolim are experts in that, and also because interactions between gentiles and Jews are governed by halacha, and the of course the gedolim are experts in that too.

    #1439580
    Lightbrite
    Participant

    ZD: I thought that going against the law and/or putting others lives in danger (by blocking emergency responders, including medics and firefighters, access to a building in G-d forbid an emergency) would negate any attempt at performing a mitzvah.

    Doesn’t this mitzvah committed in sin negate performing a real mitzvah?

    What if it’s one’s ego to be a minyan hero to your peers, but to Hashem making it to minyan wasn’t noble when it came at such an expense?

    #1439610
    Uber_Chacham
    Participant

    Josef just seems to be stating, quite rightly, that goyim should ask those who know the most about the dinnim which are shayich to them, such as the 7/11 mitzvos and how to deal with yiddin (which is talui on full dinei Torah, and thus very unlikely for them to know on their own. Stop trying to put controversial statements in Josef’s mouth, he does it well enough by himself (and sometimes gets people to actually think about things instead of going with their knee-jerk reaction…).

    In regards to parking tickets, which are by definition for illegal parking, why don’t we first talk about if there is a din of gezel to park illegally in the first place? After all, the street is land that belongs to the municipality (or state ect.), and they don’t let you park illegally. The police officer is not doing anything, he is just the chosen enforcer, and even if he was doing it of his own will, without any reason to do so whatsoever, would it be bittul Torah? After all, you can just pay the ticket and keep on learning. (I don’t nessecerally lean this way, I’m just trying to get this thread back on track (please, don’t have more reactionary, knee-jerk responses…)

    #1439612
    Uber_Chacham
    Participant

    Josef just seems to be stating, quite rightly, that goyim should ask those who know the most about the dinnim which are shayich to them, such as the 7/11 mitzvos and how to deal with yiddin (which is talui on full dinei Torah, and thus very unlikely for them to know on their own. The, daas Torah happens to be the best place for them to get a clea, accurate Psak. Stop trying to put controversial statements in Josef’s mouth, he does it well enough by himself (and sometimes gets people to actually think about things instead of going with their knee-jerk reaction…).

    In regards to parking tickets, which are by definition for illegal parking, why don’t we first talk about if there is a din of gezel to park illegally in the first place? After all, the street is land that belongs to the municipality (or state ect.), and they don’t let you park illegally. The police officer is not doing anything, he is just the chosen enforcer, and even if he was doing it of his own will, without any reason to do so whatsoever, would it be bittul Torah? After all, you can just pay the ticket and keep on learning. (I don’t nessecerally lean this way, I’m just trying to get this thread back on track (please, don’t have more reactionary, knee-jerk responses…)

    (Mods, some just got cut out the first time… thanks)

    #1439796
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    for those people who believe gedolei torah should be consulted on all questions, even non-Torah ones, or who else believe that basically every question is a Torah question

    Nobody believes this.

    The Wolf

    #1439941
    Shopping613 馃尃
    Participant

    The Wolf is right, if you are asking your Rabbi what type of food you should have for dinner tonight, you have a problem.

    #1440203
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Does anyone here on YWN frequently encounter goyim at work, school or in social settings who come up to you an say they live their lives in accodance with the Shevah Mitvos B’nai Noach an have a question as to how mitvah A or B might apply and whether they should consult a Rav or Posek?? I’m sure there are some but not in my experience.

    #1440216
    oyyoyyoy
    Participant

    friend of mine told me something that blew me away. He knows of a very choshuve posek that has a group of goyim that speak to him regarding their shailos regarding the 7 mitzvos.

    #1440409
    Shopping613 馃尃
    Participant

    I have met goyim who keep the motzvos before and 100 percent believe in the Torah.
    They say converting and being Jewish is really hard, and they prefer to serve God in the way he made them to.

    #1444364
    in galus
    Participant

    The second perek of Yeshaya seems relevant:

    讛讚讘专 讗砖专 讞讝讛 讬砖注讬讛讜 讘谉 讗诪讜抓 注诇 讬讛讜讚讛 讜讬专讜砖诇诐 讜讛讬讛 讘讗讞专讬转 讛讬诪讬诐 谞讻讜谉 讬讛讬讛 讛专 讘讬转 讬讛讜讛 讘专讗砖 讛讛专讬诐 讜谞砖讗 诪讙讘注讜转 讜谞讛专讜 讗诇讬讜 讻诇 讛讙讜讬诐 讜讛诇讻讜 注诪讬诐 专讘讬诐 讜讗诪专讜 诇讻讜 讜谞注诇讛 讗诇 讛专 讬讛讜讛 讗诇 讘讬转 讗诇讛讬 讬注拽讘 讜讬专谞讜 诪讚专讻讬讜 讜谞诇讻讛 讘讗专讞转讬讜 讻讬 诪爪讬讜谉 转爪讗 转讜专讛 讜讚讘专 讬讛讜讛 诪讬专讜砖诇诐 讜砖驻讟 讘讬谉 讛讙讜讬诐 讜讛讜讻讬讞 诇注诪讬诐 专讘讬诐 讜讻转转讜 讞专讘讜转诐 诇讗转讬诐 讜讞谞讬转讜转讬讛诐 诇诪讝诪专讜转 诇讗 讬砖讗 讙讜讬 讗诇 讙讜讬 讞专讘 讜诇讗 讬诇诪讚讜 注讜讚 诪诇讞诪讛

    The thing that he saw
    Yeshaya son of Amotz
    On Yehuda and Yerushalayim
    And it will be
    In the end of the days
    Set straight will be
    The mountain-house of Hashem
    In the head of the mountains
    And raised higher than hills
    And they will river-flow to him
    All the nations
    And they will go
    Many peoples
    And they will say
    Go
    And let us go up to the mountain of Hashem
    To the house of the God of Yaakov
    And he will direct us of his roads
    And we will go in his paths
    For from Tziyon goes out Torah and the word of Hashem from Yerushalayim
    And he will judge between the nations
    And give clarity to many peoples
    And they will cut up their swords into plows
    And their spears into pruning-hooks
    Nation will not raise up sword to nation
    And no longer will they learn war

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