Darkness of the Light

Home Coffeeroom Bais Medrash Minhagim Darkness of the Light

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  • #1465623

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    Is there a way to fight the darkness of this generation. What would you change in todays world and how would you go about doing it, both in a spiritual sense and physical. The mindset of the world is drifting into a place of no return. All the new “trends” that must be tolerated and even encouraged are geting out of hand. Is there anything to do or just have to survive through it? If modern technology including phones and computers make living so much easier, including frumkeit with so much Torah on the inernet and connecting with family and friends, why did it have to come with such a catch and is such a struggle to live with and accept in the frum world. If we talk about the world “has reached perfection” or neared it, has it really? Is this what perfection is, confusion?

    #1465903

    keith
    Participant

    I’m a BT and every day realize how ignorant I am. So take it with a grain of salt. I am pretty certain you know more about everything yiddishkeit than I do.
    It seems to me we need to bring Moshiach. He has not yet come not because someone ate treif or watched TV on Shabbos. Or davened or studied without enough kavanah. It seems to me the Temple was destroyed by us because of sinas chinam and so without ahavas chinam we cannot bring Moshiach. So for me personally, an ignorant Yid who yearns to do H-shem’s will and looks forward to Moshiach coming every day, I try to make as much chesed as I can . “Your gashmius is my ruchnius.” I try to daven with kavanah and try to study daily, but I am pretty sure that H-shem doesn’t think that is where I will make my name. I’m pretty sure my path at least is through Ahavas Chesed. This is coming from someone who is trying to learn, but who recognizes he (me) is ignorant, but striving to become better.

    What do you think? What is your plan to bring Moshiach?

    #1465906

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Part of the confusion of today’s world is caused by the fact that some like to pretend that this generation invented sin.

    #1465982

    keith
    Participant

    Reb yid What do you mean?

    #1466111

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    keith- dont worry im sure youre doing great judging by your modesty and humbleness. Hashem is the judge so lets leave it up to Him and not for us.

    Rebyid- Thats not the point every generation has its challenges. Its just that this generation happens to have many challenges and easy access to them all. In certain ways we’ve improved and in certain we lowered down. It just feels like why was such a gift given to this world with such bad side effects. I mean if we werent meant to use internet/smartphones, why is there such a good potential side to it as well spiritually? And I get the point of its not what it contains but how you use it. Ya but you pretty much cant even go on good sites without ads and things popping up in your face on the sides of the page or whatever. At this point probably most people are de-sensitized to it all.
    So if we are meant to use it, why all the controversy and struggle within Jewish Rabbonim and communities on what to do with it? Its not going away anywhere and people are much more dependent on and use this technology/internet whether business purposes/email or communication. But the negative side of it isnt going away either. And thats the catch. So whats the solution?

    #1466151

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    There are no bad side effects to smartphones. Everything that is called a bad side effect of smartphones is really a flaw in the smartphone holder that is conveniently blamed on the phone.

    #1466176

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    You missed the point again. I said that’s not a good excuse. Maybe for smartphones it is valid since it is mostly app based and not much going on in your face. But when you use a phone or moreso a computer to browse online, so many negative images pop up especially if it’s an unfamiliar site you are visiting whether while your doing research, looking something up or anything in that range. Or if you just click an unknown site by mistake or mistype an address it already leads you to things you didn’t want to see and I’m not even talking extreme I mean anything non Jewish.

    #1466207

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    It’s not an excuse, good or bad. And people shouldn’t have smartphones. Not because they’re bad, but because not everything belongs in your pocket. I like sofas and Monet paintings, but I never tried to miniaturize them into pocket versions to carry with me, because it makes no sense. And from a philosophical standpoint, we can’t carry anything with us, and we should be aware of that.

    #1466228

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    ” I like sofas and Monet paintings, but I never tried to miniaturize them into pocket versions to carry with me, because it makes no sense.”
    – exactly it makes no sense. I don’t even see the comparison here. Phones/internet are things we need/use daily.

    And from a philosophical standpoint, we can’t carry anything with us, and we should be aware of that.”
    – what does that have to do with anything

    #1466246

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    We live in one of the best times ever to live

    Would you rather live now or during the Black Death, The Crusades, the first half of the 20th Century (2 world Wars, Holocaust, Spanish Flu outbreak) or some other equally bad time

    #1466244

    laskern
    Participant

    If you see good in others, enjoy what you have and keep away from what the Torah forbids then you will see light and not darkness.

    #1466241

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    How come you are not railing against the Car, Telephone and Printing Press

    Cars allowed people to move away from the Makom Torah, Lots of Lashon harah is spoken on the phone and without the Printing Press, Kefirah really couldnt spread (Its hard to handprint lots of copies of anything)

    #1466238

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    I sit on a sofa almost every day. I’d look at a Monet painting every day too, but I’m not a millionaire.

    Smartphones are miniature computers that people carry in their pockets.

    #1466275

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    Zahavasdad- those things are much easier to be in control of. Noone is forcing you to print or read kefirah, talk loshon hara, or move away from makom Torah which that weak example really doesn’t make sense because if a person really wanted to move somewhere there are countless numbers of ways including horse carriage or even walking. It would just take a little longer so I’m not getting that example.
    On the other hand like I’ve said before, anytime you go online or use Google you are risking seeing or reading something that pops up in your face which you didn’t ask for. Especially if you have a Facebook account, talk about the untznius pictures that are constantly fed to you as recommendations of people’s profiles, not to mention peoples posts that manage to go through even when you try to block everything, particularly since Facebook changes your settings automatically anytime they feel like it when they”upgrade” something. And fb is an example of something that can be a great thing communication wise/advertising shiurim or events, and it has such a negative side to it. It’s a lot less easy to have any control over that.
    Even self control is hard for some people but that at least is up to you no matter how easily accessible something is. But when things are shoved in your face and links and sites lead to other links and sites, it’s a whole different type of wild.

    #1466281

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    It’s very hard to make a good case for internet due to all the negative side effects that come with it. For instance even television back in the day when many Rabbonim were also against( and probably still are just most people don’t use tv anymore) even that was so easy to manage you were usually able to block channels either from the provider or skip channels from the TV itself. I guess commercials and some content still problematic but kids channels usually were ok or maybe weather whatever. Internet is not limited to just 200 channels and you get more than what you pay for when comparing to tv you get only the package you pay for.

    #1466688

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    You sound like you’ve never even heard of an Internet filter.

    #1466691

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    They don’t always work well and can be quite an expense applying then to every device you own.

    #1466700

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    When you shecht beheimos, sometimes it doesn’t work. It’s also very expensive to shecht every beheima you eat.

    #1466704

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    But if you schecht a beheima and it “didn’t work” no damage done and noone forcing you to consume it. On the other hand if the filter failed, you already consumed.
    Besides if you ever have to use a computer with no filter or whatever, same issue.

    #1466705

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    Besides filters don’t really works for social media and everyone’s “tznius” pictures or ” people you may know” who you really don’t and wouldn’t want to.

    #1466795

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    I didn’t say filters are perfect, but you did mention the also imperfect equivalents for TV, so it’s not fair not to mention Internet filters also. Besides, you can set your browser not to show images.

    #1466813

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    But if you schecht a beheima and it “didn’t work” no damage done and noone forcing you to consume it. On the other hand if the filter failed, you already consumed.

    So don’t bother with a filter?

    #1466814

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Besides filters don’t really works for social media and everyone’s “tznius” pictures or ” people you may know” who you really don’t and wouldn’t want to.

    That depends on which filter you use and the settings applied.

    #1466820

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    Rebyid- Besides, you can set your browser not to show images”
    – that’s exactly the problem, then you are blocking everything else as well.
    Daas- “So don’t bother with a filter?”
    – great solution

    #1466822

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    When you block images, you’re still blocking less than when you don’t have Internet at all. Besides, you can still show images when you get to a page you trust.

    #1466927

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    Still sketchy. To be honest forget tv and internet. All technology can and is used for negative purposes. So what is the spiritual meaning behind it all. And you cant really compare it to a knife which can be used for good or bad. Technology is just so much easier to use and is more tempting than going on a stabbing spree. I mean say for instance if internet makes it so much easier for one to watch a shiur or listen, why is there such a risk of stumbling on something negative while searching for it? Even if you watch a shiur or clip on YouTube, you are bombarded by recommended videos with non tznius titles or thumbnails. I guess it is what it is.

    #1466933

    laskern
    Participant

    The Machtzis Hashekel was shown of fire teaching us that everything good like money is like fire which can be used for good or bad.

    #1467004

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    Wasn’t the menorah also shown of fire? Or was the gold just put in the fire?

    I guess some things are just easier to manage than others. You can do real harm with a hammer or you can fix with it. But again how many people are tempted to go smashing things with a hammer? It’s just not shoved in your face like things that pop up online even on normal sites. Even going to a bank website you will see untznius pictures of women. Now you might say when you go outside you might also. True that’s a good point but outside you likely won’t stare and are also in a different mindset. Apparently it’s just unavoidable online. You can try blocking as much you can, but you most likely will come across many images and words in order to know to block those things as well. So it’s like taking the hit in order to fix.and I’m not one who is against internet use I realize we need it and it’s part of daily life at this point, but it’s a real shame that there’s really no way to not see images or content you don’t want to.

    In a way it should be managed easier than tv since you choose what you want to see and what to search for, problem is even then things are always attached to everything like pests.

    #1467072

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    What about the streets of Manhattan? There’s no filter for that.

    #1467116

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    Many spots in manhattan are business and not as bad. Besides you can use shmiras einayim and look down at your dale amos. Its still not as much in your face as staring at a computer screen hoping things dont pop up.

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