I don't know about any of this stuff - but your buying or not buy a lotto ticket will not cause the ticket to be drawn or not. If you were to win, you would not receive the money on Shabbos. The truth is, your winning ticket might be considered as being a winner from the moment it was purchased, as that is your expectation and hope, and the only final component is for it to be drawn. Anyone ever ask a Shailah about this?
YWN Coffee Room » Computers / Electronics / Online
E-commerce on Shabbos
(22 posts)-
Posted 2 years ago #
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I am not an expert, but if you were to order something by mail from a traditional catalog there is some chance that some part of the transaction would happen on Shabbat. For example On Thursday I order a book from Amazon, they may put it in a box on Shabbat and mail it out, or they could do it on another day. And even if they ship it on Thursday it may be moved from here to there by the post office (Or fed ex) on Shabbat.
I would imagine if you are the seller you should try to make it so that auctions do not close on shabbat (In your time zone). But I would think that this is a place to ask a rabbi. Of course Friday noon here in Israel may already be Shabbat In Australia
Posted 2 years ago # -
For what it's worth. I have viewed the B&H website when it was still Shabbos in NY. The site allows you to browse, but checkout is disabled until after Shabbos.
Just thought some of you might find that interesting.
Posted 2 years ago # -
not to be much help here, I know someone who has a store on ebay and closes it for shabbos... :)
Posted 2 years ago # -
if I remember correctly, B&H closes their website to orders on Chol HaMoed also.
Posted 2 years ago # -
maybe jax knows about the lottery thing... ;)
Posted 2 years ago # -
the minchas yitzchok has a tshuva about soda machines if can make money from it on shabbos and we can apply it to ebay and those things too
Posted 2 years ago # -
In terms of closing your e-store for shabbat, the thing to keep in mind is that of course shabbat goes in and out at various times depending on location. So Motzi Shabbat here in Israel I have looked at B&H's store and checkout is closed.
Also if I were to order from Amazon on a Friday it is possible that my card would be charged on Shabbat as they only charge your card when they ship the order.
As always CYLOR
Posted 2 years ago # -
an open book: i never saw the issue about it till now!!! yikes.....
Posted 2 years ago # -
ames: wow thanx so much for calling your posek!!!
Posted 2 years ago # -
Thanks Ames, what about the case of ordering from a web site. You may order during the week but if they don't ship until Shabbat for whatever reason that is when they will bill your credit card. (I am assuming a store like Amazon here)
Posted 2 years ago # -
ZachKessin:
One would think that if you placed the order and furnished your credit card information when it was not shabbos, and you have no control over when your card is actually charged, then the reverse of the auction "closing the deal" rule would apply. If it is as if a deal was closed when the auction ended on shabbos even though payment was not immediate, then why would it not be considered a closed deal when one places an order and gives credit card information during the week? I can see no distinction between the two cases.
Posted 2 years ago # -
What if there are multiple owners of the web site and they are in different time zones. For instance, what if one of the B & H owners (I'm assuming they have more than one) goes to Israel, do they have to change the site for that week so that it doesn't finish transactions on Shabbos in either time zone or is it OK since one of the owners is in a place where it is muttar?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Mod42: Wouldnt it depend on where the buyer is rather than the seller?
Posted 2 years ago # -
ames, not true. that's only if you drop it off a minute before shabbos and pick it up the second shabbos is over. if he had time to do it and chose to do it on shabbos, that's his prerogative.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Ames, it's a good point. When it comes to retailers like Amazon, they have plenty of time to do it before Shabbos, assuming you order before 10am or noon on Friday (I've had items ship less than 5 hours after ordering) -- but then again, who in their right mind is ordering things on Amazon so close to shabbos? Also, I'm not sure if they even ship on Saturdays, so the point could possibly be moot.
Posted 2 years ago # -
This is actually an old, pre-ebay issue. The question was can you bring in clothes to be dry cleaned ( or a car into a mechanic ) if they will do the work on Shabbos. The psak was that as long as you brought the clothes ( or car ) in with sufficient time to have the work done before Shabbos ( on Thursday for example ) it's not a problem if the goy decides to do the work on Shabbos.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Lesschumras:
Right, with the emphasis being on the fact that there is simply enough time for it to be done before shabbos, regardless of the likelihood, or their stated turnaround times. If you take clothes to the cleaners on Friday morning, technically they could do it before shabbos, but because you aren't expecting to pick up until Sunday, they probably will not. You would still be allowed to take them in.
Posted 2 years ago # -
To revive an old, interesting topic,
The whole thing must be put into context before asking all the possible questions. I mean, if I'm in Australia, my server is in Russia, the customer is in Eretz Yisroel and his account is in the US, well, on whose Shabbos is the buying being done?
Anyhow, lets not forgot that Issur of buying/selling is a Gezeira from Nechemia, since people where violating Shabbos by bringing their goods to Yerushalayim. Therefor, we must understand that the Issur is mainly the dealing. As far as a lottery goes, this is not any different than somebody promising on Shabbos to give you something. It has nothing to do with you. (Besides the fact that a lottery is not buying-selling.)
As for online purchases, it should really be an issue of Shevisas Keilim, which happens to be Muttar. You are allowed to have clothing soaking in dye over the whole Shabbos. But, you are not allowed to have a non-Jew running your business on Shabbos, even if he is a partner in the business. If you split the revenue of everyday, then you must not take your share of the Shabbos revenue.
It is possible that the Hetter of Shevisas Keilim wouldn't apply to buying and selling, since it is a Takana and nt a Melacha. I didn't see the Michas Yitzchok. Also, we find that a big issue is the scene. On Chol Hamoed a non-Jew can build a house for you only out of town, when he is hired by the job. It shouldn't be seen as you doing a Melacha. On Shabbos too, if it is known that the business is yours, you cannot let a non-Jew operate it.
It would seem from this, that as long as the site is closed a whole Shabbos that shoul be enough. Didn't anybody aska rov, though?Posted 2 years ago # -
On a related question, when talking about the internet (or even telephones) an action here can have a result half a world away. I am in Israel but the YWN web server is somewhere on the net. (I have no idea where, but I would guess USA) So when I click on the Send button a message goes from my computer to the server which then does stuff such as putting the post into the database etc. So if it is Shabbat (or yom tov) there but not here which time is the important one. I would assume its the time where I am, as my reading a web page does not cause any person to do anything, just computers which are on 24/7 and only attended from time to time.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I would have to double check since it has been a while, but I remember hearing that that an e-commerce website that does not capture the credit card at the time of the sale transaction would not pose a problem on Shabbos. Site admins can control whether they would like the card to be "swiped" at the time of the sale or during order processing.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I did not make it clear enough: I am obviously talking from the Jewish e-site owner's perspective, and not from the goyishe owner...
Posted 2 years ago #
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