Eruv in Brooklyn

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  • #761354

    Jax
    Member

    Yes i hold of it, inorder to carry my Streimel on shobbos! (you know that thing can get very heavy when wearing it for a while! & lets not even talk about the sweat involved in this one!)

    #761355

    mazal77
    Participant

    Mybat, we are Sephardic and our rabbi holds that we can not use the eruv in Flatbush. There are SOME Sephardim that will use use it all yedei goy. You must ask your Rav.

    #761356

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    I AM SAYING THIS B’RABIM BECAUSE I KNOW IT IS TRUE.

    AND BECAUSE I’M TYPING IT IN CAPITAL LETTERS IT’S EVEN TRUER!

    Seriously, however, if you hold Rav Belsky to be the Gadol Hador, and his opinion is not to use the eruv, then by all means don’t use it. But not everyone holds that Rav Belsky is the gadol hador and not everyone uses Rav Belsky as their personal rav. For all his greatness, he is NOT Moshe Rabbeinu (i.e. the undisputed leader of the entire generation) — despite your insistence that he is.

    Stop playing the “my gadol is bigger than your gadol” game.

    The Wolf

    #761357

    smartcookie
    Member

    HIE- I follow one of the huge gedolim of our generation in eretz yisroel and he did not appt rav belsky as godol hador in US. MY rav says we can use it and well continue using it. Although I do believe in rav belskys greatness, I still do not follow his shitah.

    Please stop with this childish behavior.

    If I hold of the eruv, I am NOT being mechalel shbbos BEC I LISTENED TO MY RAV.

    Hashem wants us to follow our rav even if he paskens with an error.

    Maybe ur the one who was yelling after me last shbbs in BP when I was pushing a carriage.someone was hollering SSSSHHHHAAAABBBBBOOOOOOSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!

    It was a sight.

    #761358

    mdlevine
    Member

    Hashem Is Everywhere

    Member

    …I didn’t appoint Rav Belsky Gadol Hador. The Tzibbur did and 99.99% of the rabbanim in america DON”T know as much halacha as Rav Belsky. (and btw, rav Belsky usually goes lekula, and some are machmir, but when Rav Belsky says no YOU are playing with ISSUREI D”OIRAISA!!.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    HiE

    so, what does Rav Belsky say about using the internet for other than business puposes?

    #761359

    HIE
    Participant

    mdlevine, i didn’t hear his shitah on that.

    and even if you don’t hold of the eruv, do YOU know the halachos, did you look into hilchos eruv, well I DID, and since Boro Park is well connected to OCEAN PARKWAY, YOU are playing with ISSUREI D”AIRAISA. This is not a matter of who is better rav. this is a matter of being mechallel the day of rest. Why does everyone have to look for loopholes to be able to carry everywhere, WHY? one of the 39 melachos is that your not allowed to carry, so WHY DO YOU CARRY? WHy don’t we make an eruv around the world???????

    #761360

    mdlevine
    Member

    HiE – then call him and ask him about the internet. I find it hard to believe that you have no clue what Rav Belsky feels about the internet. so do you only selectively follow him?

    #761361

    cantoresq
    Member

    HIE: people want eruvin in order to enable families with young children who do not walk to go out on Shabbat as a family. Do you think that’s an unreasonable desire? Granted it is not a justification for chilul Shabbat, but it ought to justify the use of certain kulot, no?

    #761362

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    This is not a matter of who is better rav.

    And yet, your argument boils down to “Rav Belsky is the gadol hador and no one has any right to rule contrary to him.”

    The Wolf

    #761363

    HIE
    Participant

    Shabbos is Shabbos, and it is unadvisable to play with shabbos

    #761364

    HIE
    Participant

    well, that is n’t the point, but you obviously don’t know the halachos, so i advise you go learn them

    #761365

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    HIE,

    If it’s so clear-cut that Ocean Parkway is a Rishus HaRabim (and therefore unable to be enclosed by an eruv), then why do think there are people (by which I mean rabbis, who, presumably know this fact which most high school yeshiva bochrim know) who hold by the eruv? Do you think that they are all ignoramuses? Or perhaps… just perhaps… it’s not as clear-cut as you make it out to be and that while Rav Belsky and others may, indeed hold that way, there are others who have diligently looked into the matter and came to a different conclusion?

    Or do you think it’s all just one giant conspiracy to enable people to push strollers on Shabbos?

    The Wolf

    #761366

    Jothar
    Member

    You can always move to a different city where there is no shailos with the eruv.

    #761367

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    HIE,

    It would be useful, when you respond to people, to either address them or quote from the post you are responding to. I don’t know if your line of:

    well, that is n’t the point, but you obviously don’t know the halachos, so i advise you go learn them

    is in response to something I said or to someone else.

    The Wolf

    #761368

    HIE
    Participant

    it’s not only strollers, I have seen people playing ball in the street and i’m not evening talking about the fact that your not suppose to play ball on shabbos but….

    #761369

    HIE
    Participant

    to YOU and others. Sorry, i will address you in the future

    #761370

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    it’s not only strollers, I have seen people playing ball in the street and i’m not evening talking about the fact that your not suppose to play ball on shabbos but…

    If there’s a problem with playing ball on Shabbos, then educate people on that aspect of it — don’t conflate it with carrying.

    In any event, I agree with you that there are people who might abuse the rules regarding carrying on Shabbos with an eruv — but that doesn’t detract from the validity of the eruv itself. If it’s valid, then it’s valid regardless of the fact that some people may choose to abuse it.

    The Wolf

    #761371

    mdlevine
    Member

    and at times there are differences of opinion regarding halacha in general and eruvim in particular and although all will not dispute that Rav Belsky is a great Rav – not everybody needs to hold according to how you do and others have Rabbonim to rely upon and do not need your approval. enough said.

    #761373

    smartcookie
    Member

    HIE- now ur talking….

    Ur finally starting to address the eruv rather than who’s the biggest godol.

    Ur right about the eruv being a big conflict. Everyones aware of the shailos there. But if some rabbis found a heter, then his followers may use this heter.

    Again, hashem wants us to follow a rav, EVERY PSAK OF HIS, and not to pasken on our own.

    #761374

    HIE
    Participant

    no wolf, that invalidates it.

    #761375

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    no wolf, that invalidates it.

    No it doesn’t. What next? Tell people they can’t cook on Yom Tov because some might choose to abuse it and cook from one day to the next?

    If the eruv is valid, then it’s valid for those who use it for valid purposes.

    The Wolf

    #761376

    HIE
    Participant

    well your wrong look in sefer shomrei mitzvos

    #761377

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    HIE,

    Since I don’t have a sefer Shomrei HaMitzvos handy, how about telling me what it says.

    Specifically, does it really say that an otherwise valid eruv is invalidated because some people may do unrelated things that are forbidden within?

    The Wolf

    #761378

    Jax
    Member

    Hashem Is Everywhere: can you please refrain from mentioning names of Rabbanim & Gedolim in your posts?! as you see it leads to no good!

    Thank you very much in advance!

    Have a great Yom Tov!

    #761379

    goody613
    Member

    i carry in boro park but not in flatbush, i remember seeing a teshuvah on flatbush eruv not on boro park. in boro park e/o listens to there rebbe.

    #761381

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    HIE,

    I’m still waiting for you to show me how abuse of an otherwise kosher eruv by some invalidates it for all. Please respond.

    The Wolf

    #761382

    bein_hasdorim
    Participant

    NEIN!!! NO-WAY! Loy mit an Aleph! Zeh Lo Bah B’cheshbon!

    I’m NOT going to go as far as to call all those who use the Eiruv,

    M’chalelei Shabbos.

    (of course I mean those, who their Moirah Horah, & Posek, the one

    they actually go to, for their real Sheilos in Halacha, Holds of the Eiruv.

    All the other people, who have multiple poskim

    (whom they have never even seen or heard of) neverthless they have crowned

    them as their posek based on every Kuloh /leniency under the sun & moon

    that this posek has to offer them…….No Comment!!!

    #761383

    cherrybim
    Participant

    bein_hasdorim: Just curious…I agree that “everyone must have their own Rav”; it’s one of my mantras; but if someone does not have a personal Rav but has other erlich das torah (who is not a das yochid) whom to be someich on, than why go l’chumra rather than l’kula?

    #761384

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    HIE,

    I’m still waiting for you to either back up your statement or gracefully retract.

    The Wolf

    #761385

    HIE
    Participant

    wolfish (i addressed you),i don’t either have the sefer handy but someone of authority told this, and YOU don’t have the right to challenge authority.

    bein hasidorim- when people are playing with issurim d’airaisa, then i would call them mechalel shabbos because even if it was mutar to rely on this eruv, do you think it was made one of the 39 melachos (CARRYING) for no reason? it was done with a cheshbon, and now you are going and making it (supposedly) mutar to carry?? Shabbos was made as a day of rest? hetairim can be found for EVERY ONE of the 39 melachos, but l’maisa it is a day of rest??? WHY DO WE LOOK FOR LEEWAYS? (I’m not sure if my point was brought out but i have to go so, this is it for now)

    #761386

    NY Mom
    Member

    HIE: do you think it was made one of the 39 melachos (CARRYING) for no reason? it was done with a cheshbon, and now you are going and making it (supposedly) mutar to carry em>

    Are you saying that we should never make an eruv? Isn’t there a whole masechta called Eiruvin? You know better than the gemora?

    #761387

    HIE
    Participant

    YES< i know eiruvin, and i have no problem with a private eruv, but an eruv for a city??? The gemara (if i recall corectly does’NT talk about it, and it shouldn’t be done. MOM, you learned Eruvin?? since when do they teach gemara in BY?

    so… now you claim to be the worlds foremost authority on eruvin? What about all the Rabbonim in cities around the world that have approved of their respective eruv… If only they knew enough to consult with you first… go figure. YW Moderator-72

    #761388

    NY Mom
    Member

    HIE: Please re-read my post. Where did I say that I learned Eiruvin?

    But I know that I don’t know everything and I don’t pretend to know everything…

    Are you saying the eruv in Monsey is no good? Passaic? Yerushalyim?

    How do you have the chutzpah to be cholek with the Rabbanim who set up those eruvim and are almost universally accepted?

    Think about it.

    #761389

    truthsharer
    Member

    WADR, HIE sounds like a 19 year old who just learned his first blatt of Eruvin. He has yet to see all the SHUT that discusses making eruvin in cities.

    #761390

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    wolfish (i addressed you),i don’t either have the sefer handy but someone of authority told this, and YOU don’t have the right to challenge authority.

    HIE,

    Ah, so I have to bend my will to some unsourced statement in an unnamed sefer written by an undisclosed rav whom YOU hold to be authoritative???

    Sorry… if you can’t produce the source, I don’t have to take it on your say-so. In that respect, I DO have the right to challange YOU — since, until you can tell me otherwise, YOU are the source of your statement.

    The Wolf

    #761391

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Ah, so I have to bend my will to some unsourced statement in an unnamed sefer written by an undisclosed rav whom YOU hold to be authoritative???

    My apologies — you did name the sefer earlier.

    Nonetheless, I don’t have the sefer handy either — and until you can tell me what it says, specifically, I don’t have to follow it. How do I know that you are quoting it accurately?

    Answer me this — does it specifically say that if some people misuse an eruv that it invalidates the eruv for all?

    The Wolf

    #761392

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    HIE,

    I’ll try to find it myself. Please forgive my ignorance and tell me who the author of sefer shomrei mitzvos is and if I can find it in a standard beis midrash or seforim store.

    The Wolf

    #761393

    smartcookie
    Member

    ATT MOD 72:

    Donno if I’m allowed to moderate your posts, but in post #82 you wrote NEW and I think you meant to write KNEW.

    thank you! YW Moderator-72

    #761394

    koma
    Member

    I will try not to blow my cover by being vague, say, I was intensely involved, checking and fixing an eruv somewhere in NY for a very long time. From my experience in my own eruv, and also of other local eruvim, today I am noheg not to rely on ANYBODY’S eruv. Now, less than a garlic peel that I am, I believe the current issue is the definition of Reshus Harabim. From my little learning, I remember that the concept of 600k which is the foundation of most eruvin in flat places, and the issue of Ocean Pkwy, is a daas yachid, (Rashi). Every other shita says 16 amos. Amos are somewhat unclear, because the tefach is unclear as follows: A mishna in Eruvin says the public is oser on the roof of a homeowner where the roof pitches down to 9 tefachim adjacent to reshus harabim, because 9 tefachim is shoulder height and the public will rest loads on the roof. It would appear that the physique of the average person of the Mishna was a short person with big hands. If however we accept the psak of R’ Moshe Ztzgl, of an amah of 18 to 24 inches, the reshus harabim of most de’os would be 32 feet. If you have a size 11 shoe, pace accross any big street in your area. If you get 32 shoe lengths, it is all over for the eruv.

    #761395

    HIE
    Participant

    I don’t posul any eruv besides the ones in Brooklyn which is a MAJOR CITY and HAS MAJOR AVenues. OCEAN PARKWAY IS A RESHUS HARABIM.

    wolFISH, I’M not sure who the author is.

    TRUTHSHARER, you are actually a FALSESHARER because i was by 19 a long time ago, before you were probably born.

    NYMOM, the way you said it, it seemed like you learned eiruvin, sorry for the assumption, mochel?

    #761398

    Feif Un
    Participant

    Here’s another question: in order to carry between one reshus hayachid and another, don’t you need an eruv chatzeiros?

    In a city/town where there’s an eruv, it’s assumed that the people all agree to the eruv, and are represented by the Rav in charge, who makes that eruv, and therefore everyone can use the eruv. Even for those who don’t use the eruv, they don’t hold it’s assur, they simply are machmir, but still participate in the communal eruv chatzeiros. At least, that’s how it was explained to me.

    Now, in Brooklyn, where many people hold the eruv is not a good eruv, and causes chillul Shabbos, how can you make a communal eruv chatzeiros? You might not be over on carrying 4 amos, but you can’t transfer things from your house to outside. Any ideas?

    #761399

    NY Mom
    Member

    HIE: You need not ask mechila, but to put your mind at rest, mochel loch. (Or is it l’cha for a guy?)

    #761400

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    Feif, when I lived in Brooklyn we had an eruv chatzeiros in our apartment building. I never lived in a house there though…

    HIE, its interesting that you posul the eruv. I think the Rav I used in Brooklyn who allowed the eruv is a better source for me…

    #761401

    cherrybim
    Participant

    Let’s also congratulate the Brooklyn frum community for its accomplishments in terms of sinas chinam and mentchlichkeit.

    When the Flatbush eruv was first erected, it wasn’t usable because the eruv would be torn down every week by the detractors who sincerely believed it was a mitzva to do so.

    In addition, there was a civil war in effect in the community: families were split apart; friends became enemies; people who used the eruv were not allowed to eat in the same home as those who didn’t; shidduchim were broken; Rabbonim were abused; mothers with babies were harrassed. Boruch Hashem this is all past us.

    #761402

    sammygol
    Member

    About two years ago, at a Chasunah that I attended, the Mesader Kiddushin pointedly asked the potential witnesses if they use the Boro Park Eruv. When one replied that he does, he was promptly disqualified. When he protested in idignation that he relies on his Ruv who holds that it is perfectly acceptible, and, raising his voice, asked the Mesader – “Are you calling me a Mechalel Shabbos?”, the reply he received was – “I am not calling you anything of the kind. What I AM saying is that since Chupah veKidushin are Deoraiso, one needs impeccable witnesses, whose Shabbos observance is unquestionable, whereas yours certainly ISN’T”.

    #761404

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Sammygol,

    What a horrible story!

    Aside from the fact that the Rav (despite his statement to the contrary) DID, in essence, call thousands of Jews who follow their rav m’challelei shabbos, he also chose to publicly humiliate this potential witness. Even if the Rav truly had a legitimate problem with the potential witness, this is the type of thing that you take care of in private, not in the presence of others*.

    The Wolf

    * As proven by the fact that sammygol was there. The only reason for the rav to do this to someone else in front of sammygol is if he was the chosson, kallah, one of the parents or the other potential witness — which, from his description, does not seem to be the case.

    #761405

    sammygol
    Member

    Actually the Mesader made his disqualification absolutely inaudible to anyone standing near, ans the witness had the option of quietly sitting down, making up any excuse, such as being distantly related. It was HE, by asking most loudly “are you calling me a Mechalel Shabbos”, who let everyone know what the issue was, and who caused his own embarrassment. The Rov, actually, according to the family, DID insist before the wedding that those who utilize the Boro Park Eruv NOT be given the eidus under the chuppah. What should he have done, if he considers the witness totally unacceptible?

    #761406

    truthsharer
    Member

    If you eat indoors on Shmini Atzeres, are you passul aidus since it’s a halacha befeirush in the Shulchan Aruch, and eating indoors is a Chillul Hashem bifarheisiah.

    The Rov is saying that you can only rely on him, shivim panim out the window.

    #761407

    sammygol
    Member

    Truth, the one main criteria of defining a kosher witness is Shmiras Shabbos, especially Befarhesia. Eating in the Sukkah on Sh”A, or observing a different Z’man for Krias Sh’ma is not in the same category, by any stretch. And, since the Rav explicitly stated his condition for eidim before the Chasunah, it should have been honored, or the Rav replaced. There are Chassidisher Rebbes who will not be Mesader Kiddushin if the woman will not shave her head, and Roshey Yeshiva who refuse to officiate if videos are taken. While they readily acknowledge that there are other opinions or minhagim, their stance is to be respected, and one cannot ask them to bend their p’sak to accomodate everyone. Now, if we accept a refusal to be Mesader Kiddushin if the Kallah won’t shave, which is merely a custom in certain circles, how much so we must respect a Rov who considers using Boro Park Eiruv as bonafife Chillul Shabbos Befarhesia? Are we also going to force him to eat at the wedding from a shechita that he doesn’t consider kosher, just to make the mechutanim feel good?

    #761408

    HIE
    Participant

    let’s not go off topic. why do FRUM YIDDEN have to do questionable things that may be ASSUR M”DAIRAISA??

Viewing 50 posts - 51 through 100 (of 328 total)
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