I like when the argument gets to be about who is greater.
Well, welcome to Judaism, baby.
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Eruv in Brooklyn
(328 posts)-
Posted 4 years ago #
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So you are saying Rav Moshe was greater than Chazon Ish?
Posted 4 years ago # -
Posted 4 years ago #
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In Orchos Rabbeinu (vol. 1, p. 170) it is stated that the Chazon Ish did not even allow a child to utilize the eruv and carry in Bnei Brak on Shabbos.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Yes but I'm applying his general logic to brooklyn eruv. Also, what about a case where Rav Moshe allowed an old woman to use a walking stick in brooklyn?
Posted 4 years ago # -
"In Orchos Rabbeinu (vol. 1, p. 170) it is stated that the Chazon Ish did not even allow a child to utilize the eruv and carry in Bnei Brak on Shabbos."
Because the Chazon Ish considered the eruv in Bnei Brak be’chezkas pasul every Shabbos, since it was ripped or broken almost every week (Teshuvos V’Ksavim, siman 85).Posted 4 years ago # -
In terms of major poskim from the BY area, almost all of them agreed with R' Moshe about the eruv. Some were because they learned through the sugyah, and others just relied on R' Moshe's opinion.
R' Tuvia Goldstein zt"l, after learning through the sugyah, held that the eruv was kosher. However, out of respect for R' Moshe, he did not use it, and encouraged others not to rely on it either. The difference would be when there was a case where the circumstances dictated that you could rely on a heter which is not always relied on, but not be mechalel Shabbos outright. According to R' Moshe, you could not use the eruv. According to R' Tuvia, you could.
I heard this from a talmud muvhak of R' Tuvia zt"l.
Posted 4 years ago # -
“Rav Moshe and Rav Belsky both paskened that the eruv in brooklyn is assur. What else is thier to talk about”.
Your argument might have some credibility if you held like Rav Moshe and and Rav Belsky in all cases; even when they are meikel.
“The ones who assur it are far greater than the ones who allow it”
Again, this argument might have some credibility if you followed majority rulings in all cases.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Feif Un - “In terms of major poskim from the BY area, almost all of them agreed with R' Moshe about the eruv. Some were because they learned through the sugyah, and others just relied on R' Moshe's opinion.”
Absolutely incorrect. Many rabbanim did not agree with Rav Moshe zt”l. Rav Moshe himself said that his reason is a chiddush. Some rabbanim maintain that Rav vMoshe would agree to the current Brooklyn eruvin.
“R' Tuvia Goldstein zt"l, after learning through the sugyah, held that the eruv was kosher. However, out of respect for R' Moshe, he did not use it, and encouraged others not to rely on it either. The difference would be when there was a case where the circumstances dictated that you could rely on a heter which is not always relied on, but not be mechalel Shabbos outright. According to R' Moshe, you could not use the eruv. According to R' Tuvia, you could.I heard this from a talmud muvhak of R' Tuvia zt"l.”
This is simple hearsay. I spoke to Rav Tuvia zt”l many times regarding eruvin. Rav Tuvia allowed people to carry l’chatchila. Ask any of his talmidim.
Posted 4 years ago # -
If you don't hold for the eruv and you davin in a Shul where people who hold for the eruv bring in additional food for the kiddish can you eat of that food?
Posted 4 years ago # -
No. You can't eat it even if you do hold of the eruv.
I would say it has the din of meizid.Posted 4 years ago # -
If you don't hold from the eruv and you daven in a Shul where people who hold from the eruv bring in additional food for the kiddish can you eat of that food?
If they are ready to lain the Torah and it is found to be posul, and they bring in a Torah from another Shul, can I be yotzay the laining from that Torah?
Posted 4 years ago # -
"If you don't hold from the eruv and you daven in a Shul where people who hold from the eruv bring in additional food for the kiddish can you eat of that food?"
popa_bar_abba - "No...I would say it has the din of meizid."
popa_bar_abba - And will you drink wine that eruv carriers m'chalalei shabbos touch, and will you eat from their shchita or their cholent, can they lead the davening for you, and will you learn Torah from them or will you throw their s'farim into the trash?
Posted 4 years ago # -
And will you drink wine that eruv carriers m'chalalei shabbos touch, and will you eat from their shchita or their cholent, can they lead the davening for you, and will you learn Torah from them or will you throw their s'farim into the trash?
I don't know the halachos for all of those.
Seems like shechita is a problem. YD 2:5Posted 4 years ago # -
Well, I guess you can throw me in the trash. I don't use the eruv, but I don't have a problem with those that do either.
The Wolf
Posted 4 years ago # -
popa_bar_abba
"I don't know the halachos for all of those.
Seems like shechita is a problem. YD 2:5"Posted 4 years ago # -
tumill
Member
popa_bar_abba
"I don't know the halachos for all of those.
Seems like shechita is a problem. YD 2:5"See the hakdama(intruction) to the Mishnah BERURAH hilchos S
Posted 4 years ago # -
Member
tumill
Member
popa_bar_abba
"I don't know the halachos for all of those.
Seems like shechita is a problem. YD 2:5"See the hakdama(introduction) to the Mishnah BERURAH hilchos Shabbos "if he peforms shechitah ,even if another Jew stands beside him supervising that the shechitah be done according to law,his shechitah nevertheless renders the animal a full-fledged neveylah.The reason is that he is not considered to be "one who has been commanded in the mitzvah of slaughtering etc.
I don't know if this applies today, because now days we usually don't know who the Shochet is and they have their Rabonim who are telling them that it is OK to carry.
Posted 4 years ago # -
I assume the kashrus agencies look into the acceptability of the shochtim. I don't pretend to know all the details that go into this.
Generally, there is a חזקת כשרות that we all have. We can probably rely on chazaka that they don't use it.
Besides, the shochtim don't usually live in Brooklyn. They live in places like Iowa.
Posted 4 years ago # -
popa_bar_abba
"Besides, the shochtim don't usually live in Brooklyn. They live in places like Iowa."Yes, but when he comes back home to Brooklyn he carries in the eruv.
Posted 4 years ago # -
There are many shoctim living in Boro Park who carry on Shabbos in opposition to Rav Moshe's shita and I am not aware of any ban on their sh'chita.
Posted 4 years ago # -
This discussion is absurd. Everyone should follow their rav. No one has a right to passul a shochet who follows a rav who allows the use of an eruv. Rav Moshe zt”l writes in a teshuvah (Igros Moshe, O.C. 1:186) that when one follows one’s rav on any issue, even on issurei chilul Shabbos, albeit the halachah is not like their rav’s interpretation, no aveirah is transgressed. Consequentially, since those utilizing the eruvin in Brooklyn are just following their rav’s opinion that the eruv is kosher, no issur was transgressed. Moreover, there are many more reasons to allow an eruv in Brooklyn than not, and rabbanim do not have to follow Rav Moshe’s chiddushim in eruvin.
Posted 4 years ago # -
i want a new eruv in brooklyn new york
Posted 4 years ago # -
why man woman carry on a non kosher boropark eruv
Posted 4 years ago # -
HERSHY57712011 -
The eruv is kosher, so there is no need for a new one.Posted 4 years ago # -
lol
thanks popa!Posted 4 years ago # -
I guess the censoring is starting. Its comical when people have nothing to answer they start complaining.
Posted 4 years ago # -
david1999 - censoring is right. I responded to achosid's post, which did get past the mod's in the other post, but that was not to be seen. This post will probably go the same way.
Posted 4 years ago #
Topic Closed
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