our family minhag is to have the girls light menorah. my sister is almost 5 and is starting this year. this year as chanukah came near, i had/have a funny feeling. i don't feel like i want to physically light the menorah. i don't know why or where this came from but my heart is not feeling the urge to light like it has in other years.
do i light because it is our minhag or can i say to my father, you know i think i am going to forgo lighting licht this year.
opinions, ideas, thoughts?
YWN Coffee Room » Yom Tov » Chanukah
girls lighting
(80 posts)-
Posted 5 months ago #
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The Mitzvah is equally as incumbent upon women as on men.
Posted 5 months ago # -
The Mishna Brura says that a woman is yotzai with the man of the house,but if she is by herself then she is mechuyav to light.He also says that if she wants to light then it is like any other mitzvas aseh sh'zman grama.See it here seif katan 9(http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14166&st=&pgnum=290&hilite=)
Posted 5 months ago # -
Sam: Women are generally motzei with their husband/father.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Passfan: A married couple are counted as one person for being yotzei Mehadrin Min Hamehadrin by lighting Channukah candles. That is strange enough in its own right. There is no reason whatsoever why a daughter who is a Bas Chiyuv should not light for herself. None. She has her own Mitzvah and if the family wants to actually do Mehadrin Min Hamehadrin then she has to light her own (or her father lights a whole extra Chanukiyah for her if you want to use the way some Rishonim bring down the Minhag).
Posted 5 months ago # -
sam4321 -
You seem to be misreading it. He does not say it is actually like a mitzvas asei shehazman grama, because in truth a woman has a real chiyuv. He is just making a conceptual comparison to allow her to make a bracha even when she is in fact being yotzei with her father/husband.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Yitay:I am sorry for not being clear, that's what I meant when I said if she is by herself she is mechuyav and with her father or husband like a zman grama.
Posted 5 months ago # -
I hear. Got it.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Sam2: it may seem strange to you, but it the accepted Halacha in Shulchan Aruch. Additionally, there is a clear Minhag for hundreds of years that single girls do not light. The Chasam Sofer addresses one possible reason.
Posted 5 months ago # -
It might be a "clear minhag" in some places that girls don't light. In my family the girls do light, my wife does because she grew up doing it too.
Posted 5 months ago # -
"do i light because it is our minhag"
To be safe, give a coin to your father so that you share in the mitzva.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Hello: I'm not saying that it isn't okay (there are plenty of strange things we do well within the framework of the Shulchan Aruch, the way we make Eruvim being a big one), I'm just saying that since it's against the Gemara with no real hint in the Gemara, it's enough that we stick just with Ishto K'gufo and not somehow apply that to daughters as well. And the only ones I know of who don't have girls light is Chabad. Who else doesn't?
Posted 5 months ago # -
I use to light until i felt like i shouldnt anymore and was yotzei with my father. Now, I am yotzei with my husband and my kdis are starting to light on their own! Its so exciting and bring backs such wonderful memories...
Posted 5 months ago # -
My daughters have always lit their own.
Posted 5 months ago # -
BS"D
Girls do not have to light.
Boys do not have to light.
The mitzva is ONE candle.
The house (husband OR wife) should light, and is Yotze the other via Ishto K'Gufo (for example, the wife should light if the husband will be home late). If a high school girl will be the only one home at the Z'man, she should really be the one who lights, and is Yotze everyone else who lives in the house, including her parents.
Mehadrin Min HaMihadrin is that (Al Pi the Rema) each member of the home lights (including girls). There is a valid minhag that all women of the home do not light (including girls over Bas Mitzva), but that is not like the Rema or the Mishna Berura (C"V that I am saying it is an issue, just the facts).
Furthermore, (from what I understand, but ask your LOR) one should have in mind NOT to be Yotze with the head of the household if they will light at a later time, so that they will have not already been yotze & be making a brocha Livatala.
Ask your LOR, & YMMV.
P.S. There is (IMHO) absolutly no reason for a Ben (or Bas) Bayis to be Mistatef B'Priti (give a coin).
PPS: Sam2, I believe it is a minhag Chassidus.
Posted 5 months ago # -
yenting: the best answer, is ask your father! maybe the minhag came about simply because you enjoyed doing it and isn't really a mesorah at all!
For all practical purposes, women/girls are generally yotzei with their father/husband. I think I remember lighting once - in Pre1A when we made a menorah in school. My daughters light their arts & craft ones. Once they stop those (1st grade I think) they stop lighting. My boys light.
As to the lighting at the z'man, even below bar mitzvah boys should light then even if the baal habayis is not home yet (yes, we asked our LOR).
Posted 5 months ago # -
GAW: Being Yotzei Mehadrin Min Hamehadrin could very well have the status of a Neder for most of K'lal Yisrael and you may need to be Mattir Neder if you want to be Yotzei just the basic Mitzvah.
Posted 5 months ago # -
GAW: Being Yotzei Mehadrin Min Hamehadrin could very well have the status of a Neder for most of K'lal Yisrael and you may need to be Mattir Neder if you want to be Yotzei just the basic Mitzvah.
Really! Source?
Posted 5 months ago # -
As to the lighting at the z'man, even below bar mitzvah boys should light then even if the baal habayis is not home yet (yes, we asked our LOR).
I hear. However, no one else is Yotze by that lighting, so that wasn't my point. It is a good point none the less.
Posted 5 months ago # -
GAW: I don't have one but it's very Mistaber. It's no less than a Minhag Tovah that you've done 3 times in a row or Devarim Hamutarim Sheacheirim Nahagu Bahem Issur.
Posted 5 months ago # -
GAW: I don't have one but it's very Mistaber. It's no less than a Minhag Tovah that you've done 3 times in a row or Devarim Hamutarim Sheacheirim Nahagu Bahem Issur.
OK. When you find a source, get back to me. Meantime, SA & MB say you are Yotze (not that it is "Mehadrin min HaMihadrin" or anything :-)
Posted 5 months ago # -
Some posters here (including the OP) have cited "something not feeling right" as their reason for not wanting to light chanukah licht. I'm kinda curious (and confused) - why exactly did you feel that way? I mean, I'm a girl who lights, and I can only imagine feeling weird NOT lighting (since my whole family does).
Posted 5 months ago # -
If their mesorah is that girls don't light, it is very understandable that a girl will feel something wrong by them lighting (and thus going against the mesorah).
Posted 5 months ago # -
oooookkkkk thanx e/o for the halacha class. not really what i had in mind.....
oneofmany, i can't really explain it. i kinda always had a part of me that didnt want to light cuz i was minority of minority in my class that lit. this year, i don't know. i feel like i would appreciate it more if i didn't light. (side point, my younger siblings make it a contest who can sing better so it got trivialized in my house)
i told my father i didn't want to light this year and he was fine w/ it.
Posted 5 months ago # -
passfan: I'm talking about someone whose mesorah is that they DO light.
yentingyenta: Still don't get it, but you're entitled to your feelings. :)
Posted 5 months ago # -
In addition to the reason of Ishto k’Gufo, which is only relevant to a married woman, the Mishna Berura quotes a second reason to exempt women in 675§9. He writes that women are Tafel to men. The motive is equally applicable to a single girl who lives in the same house as her father and brothers.
Additionally, the Olas Shmuel 105, Chasam Sofer Shabbos 21b and Mikraei Kodesh 14 all attest that the Minhag was for all girls, even single ones, to refrain from lighting. I would be suspicious that a new custom to light that originated in the past 50-100 years has its primary source in the women’s lib movement, and does not qualify as a Minhag. I could be wrong, if anyone has a source for girls lighting prior to that, I will gladly retract this assertion.
Regarding a lack of Mehadrin; the Meiri, Shiltei Giborim and Magen Avraham all write that it is only necessary for adult children to light and not minors. There is no need to indicate the total number of people in the house to fulfill Mehadrin, only those obligated. The Mikraei Kodesh quoted above suggests that the same exemption should apply to girls and women.Posted 5 months ago # -
sam2: I have to object to calling Halachos in the Gemara and Shulchan Aruch "strange"!!!
Posted 5 months ago # -
hello99: Do you use the bar illan cd to find sources, go by your own phenomimal memory, or have some other method of finding all the relevant sources? Thanks
Posted 5 months ago # -
Hello: By "strange" I meant Halachos in the Shulchan Aruch and later Poskim that are accepted yet don't quite seem to follow from the Gemara and/or Rishonim. I didn't mean strange is in illogical. And the Gemara says "Af Hein Hayu Be'oso Hanes". What better source do you need for women to light?
Posted 5 months ago # -
oneofmany, it would help if i myself understood my own feelings!
Posted 5 months ago # -
sam: I understand, but still feel it is disrespectful
Posted 5 months ago # -
passfan: I don't have Bar Ilan
Posted 5 months ago # -
Hello: That's okay. I've been told I speak disrespectfully in learning my whole life. I think I've only actually crossed a proper line of respect once.
Posted 5 months ago # -
I'm confused. Shouldn't the most important factor be whether or not her father is makpid? She did say the minhag of the family is to light. If her father is makpid it is a d'oyrassa of kibbud av.
Posted 5 months ago # -
when in my house my daughter always lit her own but after she was married her husband said his minhag is that the husband lights and it includes her so she should not light.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Yenta why do u think its this particular mitzvah that is giving you trouble? do u have a bad memory associated with chanukah?
If its just this mitzvah there must be a reason why and if its not just this mitzvah then maybe there is a deeper issue.Posted 5 months ago # -
goq, that's the problem! i don't know why i feel this way but i only feel like this towards this one mitzvah. B"H i have only happy memories of chanuka. i don't know why i'm having such ambivalent feelings about lighting this year. when i went to sem and was boarding, i don't think i lit bit when i went to my cousins in chicago for shabbos chanukah... oh great now i don't remember if i lit there or not. but i remember in sem like it wasnt chanuka cuz i didn't light. uuurrrrr now i feel like i'm going to start crying cuz i'm so frustrated!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted 5 months ago # -
GAW: I had someone ask Rav Schachter for me today. He said it's not a Neder because that's how the Mitzvah D'rabannan was framed. So I guess I'm outgunned on this.
Posted 5 months ago # -
I say light on the first night if that doesnt put you in proper mood let your father do it the rest of the nights. I hope you can rekindle your appreciation of this mitzvah.
Posted 5 months ago # -
hello99: How do you find all the sources for an issue?
Posted 5 months ago # -
im pretty sure that my rav paskened women are halachikly unable of holding anything related at all to a mitzvah. its a genetic thing
Posted 5 months ago # -
i'm not sure who your rav is, but he is wrong. are you conservative?
Posted 5 months ago # -
well. my family also had this minhag, and my 18 yr old sis would put up a fit, how it doesn't make sense and she's os embaressed about it... till my dear grandpa spoke to her and explained to her the shitah we hold and why this is what we do, and after she gets married iy"h she will not havta light cuz "ishto kegufo"
from that day on.... all was quietPosted 5 months ago # -
hello99: Doesn't change the Shulchan Aruch that says that girls should light for Mehadrin Min Hamehadrin (Minors would be Chinuch only, not a cheleck of the mitzva of the home). I'm not saying there is not a valid minhag for girls not to light, but "new custom"? Do you consider the SA "new"?
BTW, have you ever seen that Chasam Sofer inside? Interesting S'vara, no?
Sam2: Thanks for asking.
OneOfMany: I would think that we are talking about older (dating) girls, who feel bad that they are not part of "Ishto K'Gufo". That would certainly trump any reason to light.
Posted 5 months ago # -
BTW, have you ever seen that Chasam Sofer inside? Interesting S'vara, no?
I have seen it inside (not recently, though). IIRC, it wasn't a sevara, rather, a historical basis for the minhag.
Posted 5 months ago # -
I have seen it inside (not recently, though). IIRC, it wasn't a sevara, rather, a historical basis for the minhag.
Or post-facto justification. It wouldn't be the first time that an Achron justified a questionable minhag.
Posted 5 months ago # -
gavra: your lack of understanding a long established minhag in klal yisroel, doesn't make it a questionable minhag.
Posted 5 months ago # -
passfan: Of course not. None the less, it still has to be justified in Halacha. The Chasam Sofer sees the need to justify it, not me.
Perhaps it was a bad choice of words. Replace "questionable" with "incomprehensible, at first glance". Questionable infers that the Minhag is not valid, vs. not having any reasoning behind it.
Posted 5 months ago # -
The Chasam Sofer was probably providing a teshuva to a shaila presented to him asking if females should light on Chanuka. That isn't him "seeing a need to justify" the minhag, but rather him simply answering a shaila and explaining the teshuva.
Posted 5 months ago # -
The Chasam Sofer was probably providing a teshuva to a shaila presented to him asking if females should light on Chanuka.
Someone didn't read the Chasam Sofer. Read it and get back to me.
Posted 5 months ago #
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