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  • #1441727

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Alright Joseph I concede to your good point that just because a certain desired result doesn’t occur, it doesn’t mean that Hashem didn’t do it for that purpose.

    The fact that the holocaust didn’t occur because of aveiros though, is true not just my shita

    #1441738

    Joseph
    Participant

    Many Gedolim have given specific reasons why the Holocaust occurred. Including due to aveiros. Search the old threads here.

    #1441748

    doer
    Participant

    Shlucha,
    “The holocaust didn’t result in much teshuva in fact many people went off.”
    Do you know what the state of yiddishkeit was before the war??

    “Ours is a very weak generation and we need positive reinforcement”
    We are only as weak as we convince (/make) ourselves…

    “He must have had His reasons for the holocaust, but I was just saying that it wasn’t to cause us to do teshuva”
    Really??!? There are hundreds if not thousands of Rabbanim and Gedolim that would beg to differ…

    I guess in today’s day and age where everyone is “weak” for some reason they are entitled to their “own” opinion more than ever before…(chazal say that there will be more chutzpa than imaginable before mashiach..we’re definitely well on our way…)

    #1441791

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    It is hard to deny that a greater teshuva movement was spurned as a result of the 6 day war comapred to the Holocaust.

    IT isnt just our Generation Fire and brimstone is not always the best way to get Yidden to do teshuva see Malbim Melachim aleph 19:11 ואחרי האש ראה קול דממה דקה שהוא הנוגה הדקה ומתוכה כעין החשמל, חש ממלל, הדובר בלחש, שהוא הקול והדממה, ור”ל קול ודממה החשמל, ודקה שהוא הנוגה, אולם כפי הנגלה הראה לו כי במחנה רוח ורעש ואש אין ה’ בם רק בקול דממה, וממנו ילמדו שלוחיו ונביאיו בל יסערו סער בל ירעשו רעש ובל יבעירו אש, כמו שעשה אליהו בקנאתו לה’ צבאות שעצר את השמים ושחט את נביאי הבעל, כי ה’ ישלח את נביאיו שיבואו אליהם בקול דממה, וימשכו את העם בעבותות אהבה ובדברים רכים :

    #1441680

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    @shlucha- as I said before I certainly do not take issue with chabad minhagim and definitely not with the Rebbe. Quite the contrary. I dont care if you quote chassidus and I understand that you want others to believe your ways. One of the issues when you or any other lubavitcher tries to “teach” someone chabad torah, they do it in such a way as to belittle everyone else and to persuade you and “prove” to you, why their Torah way is the correct one. Thats why it bothers me. And no, it wasnt just some lubavitcher that “offended” me, it is the general nowadays lubavitch mindset. Just check any chabad website, and I can give you links for any of this to back it up, just yesterday I saw various articles on various chabad sites, and such vile hatred in the articles and comments. You know what, dont expect me to learn from a lubavitcher, when they freely refer to the GR”A as “eliyahu from vilna”! Or put yimach sh’mo for Rav shach and say that he has “faded away”, or laugh at the Chazon Ish comparing him to a little lubavitch kid learning Tanya that they are on the same level! Or an article on Maran Shteinman Zt”l writing that he was old and the mind wasnt right? And writing thats the difference between a Rav and a Rebbe.
    The list goes on and on how regular low lives think they can mock and say whatever they want on litvishe Gedolim and other Chassidishe Rebbeim, This is what the problem is. Check any chabad site and look at comments which will speak for themselves. And when almost all the comments are similar, you cannot give the excuse that its only individuals. The fact that the sites even publish those articles and approve those comments is disgusting. This is also daily talk in crown heights, farbrengen, shabbos table, etc.
    And I ask you to show me just ONE other group that acts the same way. There are none. Even Satmar which is very extreme is closer to Litvishers and everyone else than chabad is. Why all the hate? Enough already.
    And I am not hateful for pointing these things out. And I am not saying its “every” lubavitchers mindset, but yes, most. It made me sick to my stomach seeing those comments and articles which I only gave a mere few examples of.

    #1441987

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    I actually read a really nice article on R’ Shteinman Ztz”l on collive! Although in general I’m not fond of their coverage as they tend to push more liberal things and not allow opinions contrary to their agenda to be published.

    But it seems like we know two different Lubavitchs. Reminds me of a story of one of the Rebbeim that saw two chassidim from the same city in yechidus.

    the Rebbe asked the first one how things are going in the city. The chossid enthusiastically told the Rebbe how many yungeleit come to Chassidus shiurim and all the amazing things in town. The Rebbe was very happy and gave him a Brocha.

    The second one was asked the same question. He thought he shouldn’t lie to the Rebbe so he told him how things are really bad, no one davens or learns properly etc etc. The Rebbe was displeased.

    The chossid asked why the Rebbe is upset with him when he’s simply telling the truth.

    The Rebbe answered, I know what’s going on in that city. That’s not why I’m asking you. I’m asking you to see what activities and people you associate yourself with…

    #1442161

    Put down the gun
    Participant

    I got 20 people to keep shabbos by threatening them about another Holocaust. NOT!

    #1442348

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Litvish: Did I say that meant nobody knew about them? It was you making the assertion that everyone knows about them. There are plenty of us here who really couldn’t care less what it says in Hayom yom and don’t consider any it “common knowledge.”

    “they do it in such a way as to belittle everyone else and to persuade you and “prove” to you, why their Torah way is the correct one. Thats why it bothers me. And no, it wasnt just some lubavitcher that “offended” me, it is the general nowadays lubavitch mindset.”

    What you describe might be a general problem common to Chabad, but Chabadshlucha has not been guilty of it here. Even if 99% of Lubavitchers were asinine (which I’m not saying is the case), it wouldn’t make it right for you to jump all over one of them in the 1% who’s actually making an honest effort to be respectful.

    To bring her point home, this is a thread about Gog and Magog. It became another Chabad fight thread. There’s a clear trend of that happening with every thread with which you’re involved. If you were wondering why you feel like you’re on thin ice with the mods, that’s probably why.

    #1442491

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    “We are only as weak as we convince (/make) ourselves”

    Have you ever heard the term ikvasa dimeshicha? Or heard of yeridas hadoros?

    “chazal say that there will be more chutzpa than imaginable before mashiach..we’re definitely well on our way…)”

    Yeah no doubt about it look at the world! Even in our world, I wasn’t surprised that lubavitcher kids had chutzpah, because the Frierdiker Rebbe wrote a letter to the first lubavitcher girls learning club that said to be careful because it’s great they’re learning Chassidus, but it gives self confidence and just make sure it doesn’t turn into chutzpah against
    teachers…

    So when I walked into fifth grade classroom, I got this attitude from the kids like, im a special neshama who’s gonna change the world and bring moshiach. Who are you?

    But I was surprised when I found my beis Yaakov students exhibiting less than respectful behaviour. It really must be the generation of moshiach.

    #1442494

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    spurned is the opposite of what I intended. I’m sorry about that. I guess autocorrect “fixed it”

    I meant to write:
    It is hard to deny that a greater teshuva movement was sprung as a result of the 6 day war compared to the Holocaust.

    #1442651

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    Neville, please. Do me a favor and worry about your own “contributions” to threads. And no, no, I do not worry for being on “thin ice” with the mods. In fact you can see that my many comments get published. Nice try though I will give you credit for that. You attack me to make yourself look good, yet you still take a shot at chabad in your response. Well played.

    #1442794

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “You attack me to make yourself look good, yet you still take a shot at chabad in your response. Well played.”

    Where did I look good or attack Chabad? How many posters and mods have to directly criticize your rhetoric before you get it? This isn’t some giant conspiracy against you like you seem to be thinking.

    You don’t deny the fact that Chabadshlucha was not being elitist here, because you can’t. You don’t deny the fact that every thread on which you post becomes a Chabad fight, because you can’t. This isn’t even entirely about Chabad; this is every bit as much about you derailing every other thread. It’s just getting annoying.

    About “many” of your comments not getting modded out. I notice it took a very long time for that last comment to get out of “awaiting moderation.” Going to guess it took at least an edit or two to get through. Am I wrong?

    #1442937

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Thank you neville and you’re the best person to call out lc for derailing things because you clearly have no compunctions criticising lubavitch when you have a problem with something we say or do. So lc it’s even a bit much for neville…

    On this topic, I know there’s supposed to be a slaughter happening in botzra around this time period. Where is that today? Let’s give everyone a travel alert😉

    #1443042

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    Yes Neville you are wrong. There was no editing. I also noticed shluchas comments sitting there for longer than mine. There are different mods on the forum and so far yes all my comments have gone through.
    Neville just because I don’t answer all your questions doesn’t mean I can’t, I just choose not to waste too much time on hypocrites.
    Shlucha- sorry if the truth hurts. How about you look at some chabad sites, not only col, check the ugly biased articles and hateful comments and then you will understand. And ya the only reason certain litvishe rabbis make it to col is if chabad claims them as “friends of lubavitch”. But on the other hand if you’ll check previous articles, you will see them writing articles about the Gedoilim saying they are very old and their mind isn’t right so you cannot believe what they say, or refer to a Gadol as “that guy” who didn’t reply good shabbos to her son while he was on mivtzoim. And there are many other made up scenarios to incite hate and forward the agenda.
    At this point it doesn’t matter, I’m sure you’ve exposed more of what you wanted regarding your mentality on the previous threads and everyone caught on to it including the mods.
    The other reason I stand out is because I speak from experience and point things out which are very true. If you ever want, I can send you links to all these articles and comments. And yes they do speak for most lubavitchers, since this rhetoric is used outside of websites as well. But hey, I’m not here to convince you, you know it better than I.

    #1443058

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    “What you describe might be a general problem common to Chabad”
    -so Neville was that not a jab at chabad or was that just you being friendly?

    #1443070

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    One more thing shlucha I actually hate machlokes and division. That is why even more so I feel the need to point these things out since there is a certain group which is a barrier to achdus more than anyone else. It’s funny though how everyone else does get along. I just wish “everyone” got along not just “everyone else”. But with certain mindsets regarding others, and close minded mentality it is just impossible.

    #1443270

    Bitul
    Participant

    @litvishemisnaged

    You are so stuck  in your own bubble, that you take the greatest offense at the smallest stupid comment written by some bored Lubavitcher. Get out there and educate yourself instead instead of sitting by your device, shooting out venemous comments about Chabad.

    Out of 20+ comments regarding the recent departure of harav shteinman zt”l, there was not one negative comment. All of them were all praising him for his great attributes and improvements that he made in this world. So stop accusing us of disrespecting your gedolim,

     

    @neville Chaim Berlin

    Thank you for standing up for the truth and counter attacking

    edited instead of deleted

    Attacking someone for attacking someone is not a strategy

    #1443578

    litvishechossid
    Participant

    Actually all of them started off with “not only did he not hate chabad…”

    #1443604

    Git Meshige
    Participant

    If Yakov Avinu requested to know when the geulah will be and it was not made known to him, who are we to try and figure it out?

    #1443652

    Bitul
    Participant

    Litvishe misnaged,
    It’s incredible though, how successful you are at stirring up arguments on every thread that chabadshlucha starts or participates in. Can’t you just leave us lubavitchers alone?

    #1443654

    Bitul
    Participant

    @doer
    As Lubavitcher chassidim we follow our rebbe’s directives and teachings; he told us that the holocaust was not a punishment or some way to tell the yidden that we need to do teshuvah.

    #1443732

    Bitul
    Participant

    @litvishemisnaged

    What do you expect us to do? Extol and sing praise to your gedolim with every fiber of our being?

    Yes, we begin our comments with “not only did he not hate chabad” because most gedolim and even other Rebbeim opposed Chabad, so the fact that he did not hate chabad is something worthy of mention. You are seriously looking for things to pick on by surfing the web for some nasty comment against litvishers.
    Wouldn’t be surprised if you google “Rav Shach ym”s and “chabad is the best” or something like that so you could use it as proof that chabad puts down others in order to make themselves look superior. Stop looking for things to fuss over…

    #1443751

    Put down the gun
    Participant

    Maybe I should start a new thread on whether attacking someone for attacking someone is a viable strategy or not. On the one hand we see that Moshe Rabeinu killed the mitzri attacker and he also reproached the Jew the Jew merely lifted his hand. On the other hand there is a sevara to say that the coffee room rules get to be set by the mods….

    Maybe you have too much time on your hands 😊

    #1444383

    Sechel HaYashar
    Participant

    @litvishechossid,
    (I think I’ve mentioned the irony in that name before)
    Why do you keep insisting that Collive is representative of Chabad Lubavitch? Maybe speak to a real live Lubavitcher and ask them what they think about that.

    Also, your attacks on ChabadShlucha are quite disgusting, you have a serious chip on your shoulder about Chabad. Can you please tell us which Lubavitcher did what to you to cause this attitude?

    I’m not going to respond to everything else on this thread, I just thought I’d comment about the fact that almost every thread began by ChabadShlucha becomes a bashing Chabad thread.

    #1444693

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Welcome back sechel hayashar. I’ve missed your help with providing sources. Do you know the source of the fact that in the past, teaching women could have confused them, as what if they would get the question but not the answer, and then be left with questions on Yiddishkeit?

    (And since there was this danger, and girls anyway have a strong emuna and no mitzvah to learn, they werent taught gemara?)

    I know the source of the Ma sheein kein nowadays because we’re taught to question by chol subjects etc.

    #1444696

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Anyhow getting back to gog umagog, anyone know where botzra is located?

    #1444697

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    If Yakov Avinu requested to know when the geulah will be and it was not made known to him, who are we to try and figure it out?

    Already in the time of the gemara it was kalu kol hakitzin… Np to see signs of Geula in the world now when we know this is the generation that will see it, as told to us by the Rebbe and many other gedolim too

    Btw Yaakov Avinu did know the ketz, he just wasn’t allowed to tell his kids so they wouldn’t be discouraged by how far away it was.

    #1444706

    Joseph
    Participant

    “Do you know the source of the fact that in the past, teaching women could have confused them”

    The Gemorah, Rashi, Rambam, Shulchan Aruch, etc. pasken that teaching girls results in tiflus (immorality) on their parts, since their minds aren’t geared to Limud Torah and they’ll mess up any understanding of it.

    #1446098

    Sechel HaYashar
    Participant

    @chabadshlucha,
    Perhaps the discussion the Rebbe had with the Belzer Rebbe. If I remember correctly, they discussed this. You can find it in the book Shemen Sasson I think. Amongst other places.

    #1446472

    Chabadshlucha
    Participant

    Thanks sechel I looked up women’s learning in the introduction to the Sefer hamitzvos with the shiurim and posted some on the other thread. It’s amazing how clear it is!

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