Has photography become too much of an obsession by simchas?

Home Coffeeroom Simchas Has photography become too much of an obsession by simchas?

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  • #618991

    Joseph
    Participant

    Amulege tzeiten there were no pictures. Now it is an obsession. So many hours at simchas, especially at chasunas, are wasted taking pictures. At a five hour chasuna people could waste two hours, or about 40% of the time of the simcha, standing like golems and forcing everyone to smile at precisely the moment the photographer decrees so, to pose for pictures.

    #1208866

    TheGoq
    Participant

    and because of photography at weddings the amount of makeup being worn is obscene, why would you want to look at a picture of your sisters wedding in 20 years and think why do i look like a clown?

    #1208867

    Meno
    Participant

    Well if there’s no picture then it didn’t happen

    #1208868

    flatbusher
    Member

    Maybe you’re going to the wrong weddings. I do not recall any family simcha where pictures took two hours. I am not a professional photographer but I do take pictures at weddings and the baalei simcha always appreciate them. It’s a historical record of a major life event and reminiscing about a time when there were no pictures is like those who are nostaligic for a time before electricity or the telephone.

    #1208869

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    I recently made two chasunahs. All family pictures (chosson and kallah families) were taken within 2 hours of the Kabbolos Panim which was scheduled for 6:30 PM. The after chupa pictures took 30 minutes.

    #1208870

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Those few hours will be remembered by one’s children and grandchildren in those photographs that they’ll cherish for generations.

    In some families, it doesn’t happen very often that family from around the country, world, community comes together in their finest clothing to celebrate a day when photographs can be taken.

    NonJews may be able to take photos whenever. They can have family reunions and before anyone eats and looks tired, they can snap photographs. OTOH, for frum Jews, many of these family reunions happen on Yom Tovim and Shabbat.

    Recently I went to a family member’s home and saw pictures of my grandparents that I have never seen before. I took pictures of the pictures. Seeing family that I have never met is seeing a part of myself for the first time.

    Photographs are very special.

    #1208871

    DaasYochid
    Participant

    Mazel tov!

    #1208872

    Joseph
    Participant

    flatbusher, see iac’s comment following yours. Two hours before kabolos ponim plus another half an hour after the chupa. I’ve frequently seen after the chupa the choson/kallah and family taking notably longer than half an hour. But even iac was 2.5 hours.

    No one’s saying no photography. Even if having family/friends take all the pictures is not enough for you, so get a professional photographer. But not a team of five photographers costing about $10,000 or more.

    #1208873

    golfer
    Participant

    I hear you Joseph. I really do.

    But I read lightbrite’s post and I couldn’t help agreeing with every word.

    Think how precious some of those photographs might be to some future descendants you’re not even dreaming of yet who will see a picture of a great-grandparent they only heard stories about but never saw!

    Maybe the photography at our weddings is a little overdone and over the top. But so are so many other things at our weddings.

    I second DY in wishing you a Hartzlichen Mazel Tov!

    And hire the best photographer you can afford.

    #1208874

    Meno
    Participant

    “But not a team of five photographers costing about $10,000 or more.”

    So what’s the issue now? The time or the money?

    Because more photographers generally means less time

    #1208875

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    I have a Rav who said that he didn’t have a photographer at his chasuna. The reason he gave is that the photographer is the most important person at the wedding because a wedding is two pictures marrying each other.

    #1208876

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    Joseph: If you include our before wedding time, (4:30 PM – 6:30 PM) we were in the wedding hall for close to eight hours. We limited the pictures after the chupa to just the parents and Chosson V’kallah and using Photoshop for others. The caterer wanted the Chosson and Kalla to enter the reception at 9:30 (just after serving the soup).

    #1208877

    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    There was a videographer who advertised that ” Selecting the right videographer is as important as selecting the right wife”

    #1208878

    Meno
    Participant

    They should just take a few pictures and Photoshop all the combinations later. The whole thing could take 30 minutes.

    #1208879

    Joseph
    Participant

    Isn’t it sad that the simcha’s schedule and course of events is dictated and run by the caterer and photographer and their wims on what needs to be done when and how?

    Again, the suggestion isn’t to have no photos taken. It is the overdoing it with the photography being a huge amount of time and expense that eats up the limited time and resources of the simcha.

    #1208880

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    We married off a daughter last spring.

    One photographer.

    40 minutes after the Chuppah for family pictures. No pictures of each table, only candids. He was told to use only natural light and be unobtrusive.

    NO video

    and none of this was about cost. we ordered only what we wanted.

    #1208881

    Meno
    Participant

    “The caterer wanted the Chosson and Kalla to enter the reception at 9:30 (just after serving the soup)”

    I hope they gave people time to finish their soup first.

    #1208882

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    Joseph: Who else should coordinate the timing of the wedding but the caterer? You are in his/her establishment. All of the help including the cooks, waiters, diswashers etc. are his/her employees and only he/she knows their schedules. I have made chasunahs and bar mitzvos and the caterer is ALWAYS the one in charge.

    Meno: Yes.

    #1208883

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    iacisrmma…………..

    sorry, I was in the kosher catering business (decades ago). The caterer is not in charge. It is the caterer’s job to cater to the wishes and desires of the paying customer. The bride, her family or their paid wedding planner/coordinator goes through a schedule in advance with the caterer and sets time and events. No caterer has any business telling a chosson and kallah what time they MUST make their entrance.

    My only take on this is that some people who purchase a ‘Wedding Package’ at a supposedly reduced price are told there are no variations accepted…you are contracting for the package as it exists…you get what you pay for.

    #1208884

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    CTLAWYER: I humbly disagree. Myself and all my friends are in middle of making chasunahs (whether packages or not) and once the chasunah starts the caterer handles the schedule. You may sit down before to discuss the schedule.

    #1208885

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    iacisrmma……….

    We married off a daughter just before Pesach. We set all these details down ion the contract with the caterer including the fact that he’d take direction from our wedding coordinator. We would not allow the caterer to be in a position to dictate to us on the day opf the simcha. You can be sure that if the caterer violated the terms of the contrat drawn up by this attorney he would not have rec’d a check at the end of the evening, but an invitation to a beis din.

    Discussing in advance is nice, but you need to get it reduced to writing in the actual contract.

    #1208886

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    CTLAWYER: Unfortunately, my friends and I are not in your financial position and do not have the ability to hire Wedding coordinators. So far, my wife and our machetenesta’s were the coordinators. From my point of view, the weddings went off well considering that at each of the chasunahs the mesader kiddushin was late (either weather related or due to illness).

    #1208887

    Meno
    Participant

    “They should just take a few pictures and Photoshop all the combinations later. The whole thing could take 30 minutes.”

    I just thought of an even better idea. On the response card, they should write something like “If you can’t/don’t want to come, please enclose a recent picture of yourself, preferably smiling” and then just Photoshop everything. That way you can save time and save money on the number of guests also!

    #1208888

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    iacismma…….

    The Wedding Coordinator was our eldest daughter in law. She was the authorized person from whom the caterer, photographer, florist and other vendors had to take instructions.

    This didn’t cost money, it required a competent and dedicated person willing to make sure that our wishes were followed.

    For example, the centerpieces on the tables were supposed to have equal numbers of red and white roses (equal to the total number of seats at each table). DIL found the florist simply placed centerpieces with 8 roses on each table. This was not as contracted and the florist had to return to his shop and come back with the correct additional flowers and fix the centerpieces before guests arrived. She also noticed that the caterer did not have the specific brand of Canadian Whiskey we ordered at the bars. The caterer was reminded of the contract obligation and sent to the warehouse for the correct items.

    These were important enough items to be noted in contracts, but not important enough for Mrs. CTL or new in-law to deal with during a chasanah..that’s why we designated a wedding coordinator.

    #1208889

    tantali
    Member

    If you are laying out money it takes months if not years to earn to spend on only a few hours, you want to make sure you at least have what to show from it later on.

    #1208890

    flatbusher
    Member

    CT Lawyer wrote: For example, the centerpieces on the tables were supposed to have equal numbers of red and white roses (equal to the total number of seats at each table). DIL found the florist simply placed centerpieces with 8 roses on each table. This was not as contracted and the florist had to return to his shop and come back with the correct additional flowers and fix the centerpieces before guests arrived. She also noticed that the caterer did not have the specific brand of Canadian Whiskey we ordered at the bars. The caterer was reminded of the contract obligation and sent to the warehouse for the correct items.

    These were important enough items to be noted in contracts, but not important enough for Mrs. CTL or new in-law to deal with during a chasanah..that’s why we designated a wedding coordinator.

    May I ask why these issues were important? I understand they may be what you wanted but in the scheme of things, how important are they and for whom? You think the guests care?

    #1208892

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    flatbusher: I understand that the parents of the chosson and kallah (generally the one’s footing the bill) want things to go as smoothly as possible. I personally think it is wonderful that CTLAWYER’s DIL took on that responsibility as the coordinator. I do wonder who was the coordinator for his first child’s chasunah but in truth it is none of my business.

    I made chasunahs for my two oldest children and I did not have anyone old enough or experienced to handle the coordination.

    As for the type of flowers and liquor; as a guest I personally wouldn’t care. However, if I paid for a certain flower arrangement and it wasn’t delivered I too would be upset. I had a friend of mine who had to have all the “bentchers” redone as the monogram was not centered properly.

    tantali: There are numerous reasons to have pictures and videos of the occasion. However, R’ Pam had a different thought. He stated that when a couple has issues during the marriage, they will look back at the pictures and see how happy they were that day and hopefully, help them overcome whatever issue they are facing.

    #1208893

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    Flatbusher…

    It wasn’t about the guests caring.

    Re: Flowers

    The colors for the wedding were Red and White. A specific dance had been arranged where female guests would take the flower that matched the color of their napkin and shower the Kallah with the flowers while waving the napkins. If there were 10 seats at a table and the florist only placed 8 flowers some guests could not participate.

    As for the Canadian Whiskey…it was about me. The men in my family have been Canadian Club drinkers since the 1930s. We drink our whiskey straight up. I personally detest the taste of VO. I was paying for the chasanah and should be entitled to drink the whiskey of my choice (as was specified in the contract).

    When I got married some 45 years ago the contract specifically called for Diet Coke to be available at the bar, as my BIL had diabetes and this was his drink of choice. During the schmorg we found there was no Diet Coke. The caterer was made to send someone to the store to buy a case. BTW, my BIL, the Rav was the Mesader Kedushin and deserved to have what he could drink.

    #1208894

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    CTLAWYER: I didn’t realize you were a “Brisker”

    #1208895

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    iacisrmma…………..

    we are an old time Litvak Misnagid family who arrived here in 1868 from Sapotskin (now in Belarus). Merchants in Europe, merchants and professionals in the USA. We have attended and supported a good number of Yeshivos, but are very comfortable with the Brisk traditions.

    #1208896

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    CTLawyer – your family came in 1868 and stayed Frum all these years?? If so, that is incredible!!!

    #1208897

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    lilmod…………

    Our direct line, yes. I can’t say the same for all the assorted relations, many did, but others practice American forms of ‘Judaism’ as well.

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