How come more people don’t join areivim?

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  • #1280605
    shalomshore
    Keymaster

    I see ads all the time for all sorts of chesed campaigns on this site. And they get a lot of donations, mi k’amcho yisroel. but i wonder how come ventures like Areivim don’t get the same amount of publicity or response? I’ve seen their site advertised here as well, but not with the same intensity. Doesnt’ it make more sense to give to something that will prevent future problems, R”L?

    #1280617
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    People should purchase Life Insurance then there would be no need for charities like this.

    A term life insuurance for $250,000 costs about $150 a year and there is no way $250,000 could easily be collected

    #1280619
    shalomshore
    Keymaster

    here you’d get more bang for your buck. it depends on the amount of kids you have – but say you have 8 kids, they’d collect $800,000, and it would cost you max $330 a year. And you’d be able to pay for all of it with maaser which would also help other people every month.

    And they regularly collect $250,000 every month, after all, they have tens of thousands of members already – so $28 x 10,000. But I agree completely with you that people should be more pre-emptive and proactive in their attitudes.

    #1280625
    Meno
    Participant

    What if someone wants more than $100,000 per kid?

    #1280637
    Meno
    Participant

    Can a terminally ill person become a member?

    #1280661
    shalomshore
    Keymaster

    From what I’ve heard, you need to sign a decleration that you’re healthy. you can always contribute as a donor, but you won’t get coverage. and i think they standardized the $100,000 per kid thing on purpose to keep things simple and equal. I believe it’s not a substitute to insurance, but rather an additional precaution.

    #1280689
    Elchie
    Participant

    IMPORTANT NOTE REGARDING THE ORGANIZATION
    “AREIVIM”

    I was persuaded in becoming a member of this organization.

    In an age where transparency is of the order, I sent this organization a modest request
    That they disclose some basic information, as follows:

    “Thank you for providing this information (their brochure)
    However, there is some additional information that I seek”

    1. Names of the people on your Board of Directors, including the Chairman or CEO who makes the decision
    2. Names of Rabbonim on your rabbinical board
    3. Names of Gedollei HaRabonnim (here in America) who endorse your organization
    4. Names of at least 5 families (in the NY/NJ area) who were recently beneficiaries of Areivim USA
    5. Number of Current members
    6. The name of the “prominent” estate attorney mentioned in you brochure

    Thanking you in advance

    This request was made several times and went unanswered.

    While I do not wish to impugn or malign this organization (which, as they admit has nothing to do with the Israeli one bearing the same name), I STRONGLY
    SUGGEST that anyone wishing to join, pose these same questions to them.
    This is not top-secret information and should be readily available upon request.

    #1280712
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    A valid point is made, they cannot gurnatee that they will raise the $100,000 per kid. As stated if you have 8 Kids, they would need to pay out $800,000. Thats alot of money.

    They way you would run something like this , is that you have to collect the money for a rainy day, when you have to pay out and invest the money. That is what traditional insurance does

    #1280758
    Meno
    Participant

    So the way I see it there are two reasons someone would become a member/contribute:
    1) they can’t afford life insurance
    2) they are doing it for tzedakah

    Also I question whether this is an acceptable use of maaser money

    #1280777
    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    “Also I question whether this is an acceptable use of maaser money”‘

    Every has to ask their own sheilah, but from the times when I’ve asked sheilahs about maaser, there is a lot of leeway regarding what it can be used for. So I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s muttar although I don’t know.

    It also may depend how rich/poor you are. If you are poor enough, you are not obligated in maaser at all, although there is still an inyan to separate it out (even if you put it back in your own pocket). In that case, I would guess that this may be a better way to distribute the maaser rather than put it back in your own pocket. But again, everyone should ask his own sheilah and not make assumptions either way.

    #1280787
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    but i wonder how come ventures like Areivim don’t get the same amount of publicity or response?

    Who says they don’t?

    #1280791
    Joseph
    Participant

    Why do you doubt its acceptability for maaser?

    #1280793
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Can you take life insurance payments as ma’aser?

    #1280860
    Joseph
    Participant

    Are life insurance companies non-profits, with their clients the primary intended beneficiaries of their company?

    #1280855
    Joseph
    Participant

    Are payments to Areivim being made to goyim?

    #1280868
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Are payments to Areivim being made to goyim?

    Are purchases at a Jewish owned clothing store considered ma’aser?

    #1280869
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Are clothing stores?

    #1280905
    Joseph
    Participant

    Clothing stores are not non-profits, with their clients the primary intended beneficiaries of the income.

    #1280904
    Joseph
    Participant

    Are clothing stores non-profits, with their clients the primary intended beneficiaries of their company?

    #1280909
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Hatzalah help non-jews . If a non-jew calls and when they paramedics arrive and see a big cross, they will still help (Many non-jews calls them in NYC)

    In Amish communities, they dont have health insurance, when an Amish gets sick the community raises the money to pay the medical bills

    There is also christian Health Insurance, Meaning some christian organizations run a Health Insurance type plan. Meaning you pay money to help others and they will pay when you need it, However they wont pay for certain procedures they deem offensive (Like Abortions). They do accept jews if they want to participate as long as they follow their rules (Like no Abortions)

    I suppose Jewish organizations could run something similar, but I dont think the community is big enough to support such a thing. Medical bills could run in to the millions and you are on the hook for them if someone gets really sick

    #1280949
    Meno
    Participant

    So it’s only worth it if you have a bunch of kids (I’m not sure the exact number, but it’s some number above the average). Otherwise it’s cheaper to buy life insurance.

    But if all of the members have a bunch of kids, there wouldn’t be enough money in the pot.

    So the only way this works is through donations (or people being convinced that it makes sense to join).

    So basically it’s a tzedakah where the recipients contribute some and don’t feel like they’re receiving tzedakah (not that I have a problem with that, just trying to clarify what’s going on)

    #1280956
    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    “Are life insurance companies non-profits, with their clients the primary intended beneficiaries of their company?”

    They are if they are “MUTUAL” insurance companies which are owned by the policy holders.
    In Connecticut we also have Mutual Savings Banks, owned by the depositors.

    #1282586
    Meno
    Participant

    Does the term “non-profit” have any halachic significance?

    #1282593
    Joseph
    Participant

    If it is a for profit entity we can generally eliminate it being tzedaka eligible. If it is non profit there’s a much stronger likelihood of it being tzedaka eligible.

    #1282606
    Meno
    Participant

    As far as the members are concerned, it is for-profit, even if it is legally characterized as a non-profit. Otherwise why would anyone join?

    I don’t see how this is any different from buying an apple from a Jewish-owned grocery.

    I give a dollar, he gives me an apple.

    I give his orphans money when he dies, he gives my orphans money when I die.

    #1282613
    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    Areivim is not like giving a dollar for an apple, because you are not necessarily getting the apple. first, you only get the apple if you die with unmarried kids under a certain age (and technically you are not getting the apple, your kids are), and second, there have to be enough apples left to give out.
    A better mashal might be a Chinese Auction- you give money to the organization, that money will go to help others. There is some chance that you may gain something too, perhaps more than you gave. I think that it is muttar to give maaser to buy auction tickets (maybe because the chance of winning is low?)

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