my friend went out with a girl last night. and wants my opinion on her. Since my wife knows her, we invited her for a shabbas meal for this coming week, and she said she's already booked out.. I know she's not since my friend that dated her last night said she's available for next week shabbas day lunch.
should I give the benefit of the doubt or tell my friend she's an outright liar!
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Uh maybe she feels uncomfortable you should give people their space.
First of all, why does your friend need your opinion on the girl? If he's mature enough to get married- he should be mature enough to make his own decisions, & certainly not have his friends scootch her out...
Also, before calling her a liar, perhaps she made plans in the hours between the date and your wife calling her? Perhaps she's tired and doesn't want to eat out, perhaps she's uncomfortable?
Before you potentially ruin a shidduch, think a bit.
Maybe shes not interested in going away in mitten shidduch,sorta like the closed types.
NOMTW - I strongly disagree with your first premise. Getting a second opinion is very important, and does not show a lack of maturity. Farkert, it shows maturity in that you are willing to take into consideration the advice of others and that you don't arrogantly look at yourself as an expert on everything.
There is a Torah shmooze on Nadav & Avihu, the sons of Aaron, that states that if they had consulted with each other before bringing in the aish zara they wouldn't have went through with it, and their lives would have been spared. It's interesting because they both did the exact same action, and they did it together. You wouldn't think that simply speaking out what they were doing to one another would have made a difference, but chaz"al teach us that it would have made all the difference.
Curiosity: There is a big difference between discussing a shidduch with a Rav/parent/mentor figure and having your friends stage a rendezvous so they can give you a second opinion. I think that the latter is not a very good way of going about getting advice.
OneOfMany, I never said anything that disagreed with that. NOMTW came out against seeking advice in shidduchim, labeling it "immature". All I said is that second opinions in general are very important; I didn't discuss from whom.
Okay, but I think you are misinterpreting what NOMTW was trying to say. I think she was labeling getting a friend's opinion, and in that manner, as immature - not the idea of seeking advice b'chlal.
OOM, perhaps this friend is his "mentor figure".
Okay, so they're an immature mentor figure then...
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Is it appropriate for a young recently married guy to be checking out single girls for his friends? Doesnt sound all that kosher.
OOM. It could be that's what she meant, but that's not what she wrote.
Curiosity: It was implied. I'm sure NOMTW will tell us what she meant when she comes back.
perhaps once she found out you guys are friends with the guy she dated she does not want to come for a meal because she feels she will be put under a microscope.
my advice, BUTT OUT
Stay out of it, my friend. You have clearly already pre-judged the situation negatively by calling the girl a liar, when you know zero about her personal life. She could have already made plans for Friday night, or maybe when she goes out on Shabbos lunch, she doesn't like to plan also for the night before. Maybe she does not know you well enough (despite knowing your wife)to want to be a guest in your home after only beginning to date your friend. Don't be so quick to label her. You might be right, but more important, you are probably wrong and can mess this up for your friend.
It sounds like you didn't even attempt to give her the benefit of the doubt.
You're questioning her character, when part of having a sterling character means being Dan lekaf zchus.
Why does anyone take this OP seriously?
I know. Seriously.
Oom, this is a really silly thing to turn into a debate. If you need to be "right" so badly, I can pretend I agree and let you "win".
Why does anyone take this OP seriously?
I know, right? They're probably just another mod name, lol.
pardon my asking but what qualifies you as experts in determining this shiddich's validity or not.Our world is full of eitza gebbers, if there is a need for a professional, then consult one, you could do more harm than good, if a person is old enough to get married then they get to make the ultimate decisions as well. Daven to H-shem and be positive and things will crystallize for you very quickly. Old wives tale, if you you to convince yourself to like someone it is not for you, to explain why someone is for you is also not necessary. Hazlucha meruba. Simchas by alle Yidden
Curiosity: Whoa whoa - I wasn't trying to start any debate. I was just trying to clarify what NOMTW was trying to say. Nobody cares whether we agree or not. So no hard feelings, okay? :)
Absolutely no hard feelings. Misunderstood your tone, sorry :-)
Yes, you are totally misconstruing my words. I was referring to the explanation that OneOfMany is referring to.
Getting an opinion of a friend/rav on a particular issue is definitely advised! having a friend scooth out the girl after 1 date and then presuming to call her a liar when she rejects....that's a bit much.
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