November 20, 2012 at 7:28 pm #606240
This may be a tough one with an audience like YWN, but I need some advice and I don’t want to vent about this to people who know me and my family. I am not working right now, I am currently staying home with me new-ish baby and my husband works full time. BH he has a job and works very very hard, but the way the economy is and the fact that I am not working, money is very strained. We have never taken or asked for money from our parents. We were not supported at all ( our parents are very modern and believe that you shouldn’t get married If you cannot fully support yourself) I happen to agree with that but I don’t see anything wrong with helping out if your children needs it and if you can afford it. My parents don’t have that much money but bH wish they could help. My in-laws on the other hand… Make 3 or 4 times what my parents make. I know that it is their money, and they definitely don’t need to help us, but it would be nice. They help my husbands other un-married brother and sisters, but never us. They also know that we are really struggling right now to pay our bills but still they don’t offer. My husband does not like to talk about it but even as I am writing this I am brought to tears. Please don’t misunderstand and think that I am greedy. We have never asked for a thing in 3 years. I really want to be home with my child but I entertained the idea of going back to work, but with a nanny it just doesn’t even pay to do that. We are ok but I just wish they would offer since they have so much money and are not shy about that fact.
What I am really asking for here is help. Help to not hold a grudge against them. Help to not want to scream when I see the things that they buy for my siblings in law. Help not getting angry everytime my mother who has very little money brings groceries and presents for my child when she visits, and they don’t. I love my husband and he works so hard, he has also taken on the burden of my student lines along with everything else. Thanks for letting me vent.
November 21, 2012 at 12:24 am #908681
I’m sorry, that sounds very hard.
November 21, 2012 at 1:31 am #908682
Mazel Tov! I am thrilled to read that you have a baby! You are one of the lucky mommies who are spending quality time with her baby. Your child is one of those lucky babies who is getting to spend quality time with mom.
I don’t have a solution to your problem, but I am very impressed that you are venting here instead of at your husband. Best of luck!
November 21, 2012 at 1:37 am #908683
Your reaction is very human. It sounds, though, like you’re making judgements about them.
When i read shmiras halashon, a lesson a day, i found that i was less upset with the behaviors of others. Somehow, it helped me be dan lekaf zechus. Maybe that would help you, if your ultimate goal is to accept and move beyond this.
I think if you have no choice you can go in that direction. I’m not so sure you can’t work this through, though.
If you want to try to understand it, I would ask yourself these questions:
What’s your husband’s “take” on the situation (is he equally as upset? Why or why not?)
Why do you think they give to the other siblings and not you and your husband?
Have you ever asked them for money or help? Maybe the others do, which would explain why they have been helped and you have not.
It sounds like your effort to be self reliant is breeding resentment.
Do you think you might be expecting them to realize you’re struggling when they might be completely unaware?
November 21, 2012 at 2:17 am #908684
November 21, 2012 at 2:52 am #908685
Thank you everyone for your responses.funnybome, yes bH I am so blessed to be staying home ( living the dream in that sense). Mommamia, let me clarify a few things. Thank you for taking the time to answer. They know what our situation is, they know how much my husband makes and they frequently ask us how things are going financially. My father in law says ” everyone is off the payroll”, because my husbands siblings are spoiled and do ask for a lot, but he gives into them and helps pay for vacations, groceries etc. There were a few times over the years that we mentioned we could use a little help here and there and they not ony said no but made us feel guilty. My husband by the way is the only religious one of his siblings, but I would think that would make him prouder of my husband and want to help him but it does not. We have so many bills and it would be nice if they recognized us and just helped once in a while. My mother came to visit the other day with all of these clothes or my child and she wants to help SOmuch but she can’t really afford it. I just want to clarify.. We are not poor living on the streets.. It’s just a tough time since I am home and we are a 1 income family with a lot of bills ( car, car insurance, student loans, rent, 2 cell phones, baby expenses, gym). I quit the gym which stinks! But we are trying to limit our expenses, and my in laws are so open about the fact that they have money it frustrates me, especially when I don’t grocery shop all week because we can’t afford it, and they are paying for my sister in laws phone that she uses on shabbos. I know that’s not the point at and i love her very much, I am just venting.
November 21, 2012 at 3:35 am #908686
MorahRach, your latest post contains the answer: You are the only religious ones. That should give you perspective!
You don’t say if your in-laws are religious or not. If they are not, they very obviously aren’t “more proud” of your husband for being frum. They probably feel threatened by it, feel that their lifestyle was rejected, and that you think you are better than them. They probably reacted so strongly to a request for money because it fed into a deep-seated fear that maybe you look down on them and only appreciate their money. It also would fit very well into any stereotypes about religious Jews and money.
This is their way to express their disapproval, and YOUR chance to demonstrate that you love them for who they are, the way they are, and it has nothing to do with them financing your lifestyle (which they might respect on some level, but disapprove of on many more levels).
They probably feel like “he made his bed, let him sleep in it.”
May I suggest learning “Chovos Halevavos, Shaar Habitachon”? Trust that Hashem will give you whatever you need. If you respect the Lubavitcher Rebbe, this book will also be an eye-opener. Remember, your husband may have a rich father, but we ALL have a VERY rich Father.
November 21, 2012 at 4:13 am #908687
MorahRach, I’m sorry to hear about what you’re going through — may Hashem bless your (extended) family with peace and abundance.
Practically, I wonder if maybe your husband should ask again for money? Even a “loan”? (That’s how my dad would do it with his dad, who would say OK, it’s a loan but don’t be in a hurry to pay it back.) Maybe somehow they will say yes this time. As they say, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Spiritually, we are taught that our income is determined on Rosh HaShana/Yom Kippur. So there’s no reason to be angry at other people about their role in our income because it’s all up to Hashem, based on what he’s already decided. It may sound like unusual advice, but chassidic rabbi and bestselling author Shalom Arush would advise to spend several minutes every day in personal prayer in your own words, thanking Hashem for giving you this challenge, because like everything it must be for the very best, and asking Hashem to help you with it (to not be angry with your in-laws, to have more income, to be happy and thankful for what you have, etc.) In his book on the subject he gives numerous examples of miracles that have occurred after people resolved to start giving thanks for their troubles. It may sound weird but you can understand how it’s a way to build emunah/bitachon. It’s like King David said: “He who trusts in Hashem, kindness will surround him.” (Tehillim 32:10).
November 21, 2012 at 4:25 am #908688
left to writeMember
We are in a similar situation (frum & non-frum factions, vacations & stuff for ‘them’ & we are left to fend for ourselves, etc). I know _exactly_ how you feel. I console myself with 2 thoughts: Every time I suppress the feelings of ‘they have so much, if they gave me something, anything, they’d never miss it,etc’ I am m’kayim the mitzva of ‘lo sachmode’. Hashem tells me not to want anyone else’s possessions, including their money, even if they have a surplus. The second thought is: on Rosh Hashana, everything was decided; my income your income, their income. If they give me something, then I will lose that amount from somewhere else. And if they don’t help me at all, that will have no effect on Hashem’s cheshbon. I won’t end up with any more or any less than I was supposed to have. If you are able to make ends meet, even just-just, then you are doing fine. Spend conservatively, don’t waste the resources Hashem has given you. Relax a bit with knowledge that you are just like so many of us, & we’re all surviving. You will too.
November 21, 2012 at 4:44 am #908689
Left to write and others,
I dont see why money you would be given by your parents would be excluded from the cheshbon that Hashem made for you on Rosh Hashanah. Hashem decided you would get X amount of money this year and maybe part of that X is meant to come from your parents and or in laws (in a situation where it is normal to need to come on to them and they have the means to help you). If you know otherwise please cite a source.
November 21, 2012 at 5:50 am #908690
left to writeMember
when you go to work, your employer is obligated to give you your wages. That is a Torah law. Hashkafa-ly, Hashem gave him your money. The job is merely to save you from idle-atry & keep you out of trouble. The money your parents or in-laws have is not necessarily yours, & you have no claim to it, seeing as how you did not work to earn it (or earn the right to collect it). When you say “in a situation where it is *normal* to need to come on to them…”, if, for example they promised to support you for a particular amount or regular expense (i.e., they promised to pay your phone bill or health insurance, etc), then they DO have YOUR money & you have a right to collect it as per their promise. In our case, no such arrangement was made. Why would I assume that my parents’ money is in my cheshbon?
November 21, 2012 at 6:40 am #908691
How can anyone have an expectation that their in-laws should provide them with financial assistance?
November 21, 2012 at 10:31 am #908692
MR -The fact that they won’t help out is because they think a religious life is stupid.
Two suggestions that might sound harsh:
1. Go back to work and leave the kid by a babysitter, not a nanny (which is expensive), even if not ideal.
2. Minimize your Shaychus with them. You can get together for Yom Tovim and such, but avoid things like social visits and holidays that you might be invited for, eg. Thanksgiving.
They really don’t respect you or your way of life. You don’t have to seek revenge, but you don’t have to go out of your way to give them Kovod either.
November 21, 2012 at 12:01 pm #908693
I think the expectation is to be treated fairly and equally. Helping one child financially and not another appears like favoritism.
November 21, 2012 at 1:14 pm #908694
Re-read my original post. I do not have the expectation that they should help me. I even said I agree with the mentality of not getting married and being supported by your parents. My issue is that we are really struggling right now, really struggling, and they are very wealthy and don’t ever help us even in the slightest. I didn’t ask for ways to finagle them into helping either.. I asked for coping methods because I have pretty negative feelings towards them right now and I don’t want to feel that way Farrocks.
Thanks everyone for your input!
Thanks left to write, I will try to think on those terms more often. I am bH blesses with a wonderful marriage and healthy child, I am not taking that for granted. I just know now that I am a mother that if my child was finding it hard to pay his or her bills etc i would help them no questions asked. Not because it is expected but because I love them.
November 21, 2012 at 1:53 pm #908695
Advice to all;
If it’s not your money, it should not be in your thoughts. At all. Ever. Easier said than done, but true nonetheless.
November 21, 2012 at 2:57 pm #908696
MorahRach, you need to remember where the money comes from! The money doesn’t come from parents, it comes from Hashem. You will have whatever money you’re meant to have. If you’re meant to have what you have now, they could give you a million dollars tomorrow and it wouldn’t matter. All it would mean would be that more expenses would come up – which could chas v’shalom include some pretty bad things. Imagine if they gave you the money, and next week another storm came and destroyed your house. You’d say, “Wow, it’s good we got that million dollars!” What you don’t realize is that if they hadn’t given it to you, your home would be fine.
Hashem gives us what we need, and that’s all. Remember that, and trust in Him. I’ve lost count of how many times Hashem has helped my family when we thought we were completely broke. He always helps us.
November 21, 2012 at 3:08 pm #908697
Old man. You are correct! I guess I just find it hard that my husbands children are treated differently. My husband also happens to be the only respectful child to his parents, the ONLY one that checks on/speaks to his grandparents, the only one that ( and they know it) eventually when they are 120, who will take care of them or would even bother with it. You are right though I need to just stop thinking about it.
Health: interesting. I never really thought about it. My husband says that they refuse to believe that the other children are not religious though. They can literally whip out a cell phone on shabbos and his parents will pretend not to see. They are modern they keep shabbos, I wouldn’t necessarily think that is why they treat us differently. Maybe because we have a child and the other kids don’t? Who knows its just hard! Thank you all for your advice.
November 21, 2012 at 4:33 pm #908698
MorahRach- I wish you much nachas from your child(ren)!
Having a new baby is stressful in itself: hormonal changes, sleep deprivation, body changes, new demands on time and energy. Are you getting enough time to take care of yourself??? This will not improve your finances, but will help you feel more like a menschette. This pampering doesn’t have to be costly. You deserve it. It will put you more in the mind of being grateful and being able to speak to HaShem.
Some ideas you can do even if baby is awake:
-Plan a regular get together with a friend(s) who also has a new baby for coffee/tea and adult talk for an hour or two every week. Mommy Club?
-If you have a friend where you can leave the baby for an hour or two, take a nap. SLEEP has a way of changing our perspectives for the good!
-If they won’t help you financially, can you ask your MIL/FIL to come watch the baby so you can take a walk?
-Put on some of your favorite music and really listen for 5 minutes. Sing at the top of your voice.
-Exercise. Especially if you miss the gym. Use bags of rice for weights, or do jumping jacks.
-Do your nails (if you like that sort of thing).
-Visit a nursing home or bikur cholim with the baby. (It’ll cheer them up, too.)
-Get a massage.
-Make a “home date” with hubby. Cook something special and yummy but low budget (look for vegetarian recipes online – beans & rice are cheap), light a candle, put on some perfume, have a drink together, like when you were dating.
IMO, your husband needs to ask his parents for financial help, and you said in your OP that he doesn’t want to talk about it. (The suggestion to ask for a “loan” was brilliant.) This is something between them and goes back further than when you entered the picture. I can understand and feel your resentment. It hurts to be treated unequally, but he’s not the only sibling in the world experiencing this. If he asks the folks and they say no, that should be the end of it, and you and hubby should move on from that point.
As yytz suggested, a very good thing is to pray for the in-laws and the siblings receiving $$$. If you carry a resentment, it will only hurt you and drag down your spirit. Ask HaShem to grant them all you wish for yourself: good health, parnassah, shelter, food, luxuries, etc. You’ll find yourself open to receiving HaShem’s bounty without feeling as stressed as you are. I wish you luck… and this too shall pass.
November 21, 2012 at 5:25 pm #908699
“I just know now that I am a mother that if my child was finding it hard to pay his or her bills etc i would help them no questions asked. Not because it is expected but because I love them.”
That is exactly what I was thinking as I read your post. i feel the same way. However, remember that with some parents money translates into compliance… with their wishes, “advice”, etc.
Anyway, I really feel for you. But, like another poster said many of us are struggling financially … still at the end of the day we survive. I also stayed home with my child — he only went to playgroup at 3.2 … for his benefit, not for my convenience.
What you are doing for your child, no one will do. You will never regret staying home and bonding with your child because that bond will be for life. No Mexican nanny or irreligious… woman, or even the most choshev babysitter/daycare can give your baby what you, mommy, can. It is precious and worth all the financial sacrifices. Cut down on things, but stay home and mother your child all day every day and you will both grow:)
On a practical note… there are many types of businesses that allow you to be mom and bring in money at the same time because there are no set hours and work can be done at home (if you have the energy…). Perhaps your baby is just too little right now for starting something like that… but there are many options. We are a one income family because my husband learns, but B.H. I was able to make enough to stay afloat even when breastfeeding my baby. It was ok and Hashem gave me the koach every day. Believe me, if you want to do for Hashem, He will make it possible by giving you what you need to live…etc. Hatzlacha!
November 21, 2012 at 7:19 pm #908700
I think as Nudnikit said, you are probably part of a stereotype. Many times people react to situations in interesting ways because of connections in their mind to many other things. In their view, by giving you a $10 present they are giving in, they are surrendering. Here they believe you are supposed to be able to support yourself and now they should, with their own hands, contradict themselves? You are right that it is not a real argument, you actually agree to them and it is a new circumstance that came up. However, in their mind, it would mean bending, undermining their values, being taken advantage of, and who knows what else.
I once heard that Rav Pam z”l said a Mashal. If you are in bed and hear the sink drip you won’t be able to fall asleep, and will have to get up to close it. But, when you hear the rain drip, perhaps even louder than the sink, you have no problem falling asleep (it might even be considered a pleasant sound). The difference, he said, is that you can do something about the sink but not about the rain.
IT makes you upset to hear them talking about how they have money, and when you see them giving other siblings items of less importance. When you put it out of your mind, that it is not something that will be coming your way and that money has nothing to do with you, that should ease the feelings.
November 21, 2012 at 7:40 pm #908701
Old man is right. It hurts, it’s sad that you and your husband apparently are treated differently from the other siblings, especially in light of how you describe your kibud Av and even extended to grandparents (as it should be). But it is not your money, they can do what they want with it, no matter how frustrating this is. B”H you have parents of your own who want to help you where possible. It always seems to work out that the ones who have the least want to give the most. Hashem should bless them (and you) with the wherewithal to easily afford to help you when needed, and even more, to help you not to NEED help from anyone.
November 21, 2012 at 7:41 pm #908702
MR -“Health: interesting. I never really thought about it. My husband says that they refuse to believe that the other children are not religious though. They can literally whip out a cell phone on shabbos and his parents will pretend not to see. They are modern they keep shabbos, I wouldn’t necessarily think that is why they treat us differently. Maybe because we have a child and the other kids don’t? Who knows its just hard! Thank you all for your advice.”
I meant everything I posted with a full heart. Take my advice to heart. I was married to s/o who didn’t come from a religious background. I learnt the hard way how they perceive Frum Yeshivishe people. Not all are like this, but there are plenty.
Forewarned is forearmed.
November 21, 2012 at 7:50 pm #908703
Justhavingfun and yhm: thank you! I feel so much better after reading your posts. BH I wouldn’t trade staying home with my baby for anything. I don’t currently have any friends staying home with theirs but I am looking for some girls to maybe start a mommy and me type thing once or twice a week. I like all of your ideas, and yes I think besides the financial strain I am just drained due to lack of sleep and quiet etc.
When I said my husband doesn’t want to talk about it.. We end up talking about it all the time but he doesn’t not want to discuss it with them because they make him feel like garbage. There were some issues with Yeshiva in israel and in the US and basically he ended up paying for it himself because they were not on board ( after shana aleph though). He does not like asking them for things because I think then he thinks ( and I guess knows from his childhood) that it will be held over him and not in a gracious way. I guess everyone is right I need to just open my eyes and see the beautiful things Hashem has given me..and I do see them. This has helped though, having “strangers” to talk to and lend an ear. I don’t discuss financial issues with friends as I find it embarrassing, thanks for your time everyone.
November 21, 2012 at 8:28 pm #908704
What does your husband do professionally?
November 21, 2012 at 8:45 pm #908705
He has a degree in finance but is currently working in a different profession. After college the economy was and still is not what it should be and he has trouble finding good work in his field.
November 22, 2012 at 2:45 pm #908706
i totaly agree with the point of “Health” thats what poped into my head right away…. why cry about someone not giving you???? go out yourself and get a job…. ( and yes drop him/her off @ a baby sitter)and honestly with out my wife working as well i dont know how we would of survived…….
November 22, 2012 at 6:42 pm #908707
AbeF -“i totaly agree with the point of “Health” thats what poped into my head right away…. why cry about someone not giving you????”
It’s actually understandable if she lives in Lakewood like I do.
Most “Men of the House” who live here are supported by “Others”.
And many other Jewish communities the women don’t work out of the house, if at all. In certain communities this has become the “Norm”!
What happenned to the work ethic that we saw from the previous generations? I saw both my parents & both my grandparents working.
November 22, 2012 at 6:47 pm #908708
I’m not crying about it. I was just asking for some advice about improving my feeling towards my in laws. And with the cost of a sitter who is English speaking and qualified I would not be walking away with much. I will look into the advice about some part time work at home.
November 23, 2012 at 7:04 am #908709
MR – When you send the kid to a babysitter out of the home -it doesn’t take a big chunk out of your paycheck.
November 23, 2012 at 9:36 am #908710
Some schools have on site day care for their staff ( usually not free…). It’s not the same as having your kid with you full time but you do manage to “check in”, maybe share lunch etc. Although there probably aren’t any teaching openings this time of year, you can try to get the word out for “subbing”. If you live in a large jewish community it might be enough to cover your shortfall.
November 23, 2012 at 1:50 pm #908711
MR: While they don’t owe you anything, I think they are stingy and unkind. I would avoid as much as possible them for their horrible treatment of family. Is really everything about money in this world?
November 23, 2012 at 4:29 pm #908713
I’m sorry that you are being misunderstood by some.
Morah Rach is not saying she wants or expects it, but it hurts when someone around you has a lot and can flaunt it, but doesn’t see you are lacking. It’s hurtful.
Maybe in a few weeks once your baby is a bit bigger you can babysit for one other child. That won’t be so hard and would give you a little extra income and a boost. Also have you looked into any government assistance that you may be eligible for based on your income. (I know there are those who will disagree with this but it might help her.)
November 23, 2012 at 7:01 pm #908714
You can be a shadchan at home. All you need is a phone.
November 25, 2012 at 9:02 am #908715
Uneeq: Did you not contradict yourself? Also it seems the OP is looking to improve her relationship with her in-laws, not destroy it. We are here to build ahavas yisroel, not sinas yisroel.
MorahRach: It always helps me to recognize that everything is meant to be is a nisayon. Everything that happens in our lives is Hashem speaking to us and helping us build our characters. Hashem hides his nisyonos through nature, so although the other person may not be making the right choice, Hashem did allow you be the recipient of their unfairness, because for whatever reason He decided, YOU apparently need this test. If they didn’t have the money and if they didn’t give to the others, it wouldn’t be a test for you. It is especially at a time when someone else is ridiculously unfair to the extent that it isn’t sensible, that we realize that it HAS to be from Hashem.
This not to say that a person can use this argument to harm others ‘to help G-d’. Proof is ‘migalgilin zechus al yedai zakai vechova al yedai chayav’ (so with that argument that you are ‘helping G-d give out nisyonos’ that would make one chayav).
Remember that it is all a test of G-d seeing if this will help you come closer or further to Him and His commandments. I hope that helps.
November 25, 2012 at 11:53 am #908716
interjection; No I did not contradict myself, though I do see how you think that. I am was referring to the in-laws that love their money so much that they are willing to become unkind and stingy to their own family. While kids don’t deserve money, it shows you how nice the in laws are that they wouldn’t even give a cheap gift.
I understand your point of Ahavas Yisroel. Though I never said that she should hate her in laws. I think she shouldn’t hang around bad people. They should avoid them as much as possible if they would like to raise the kids with normal Jewish values of what family and kindness is.
There’s enough Jews in this world to spend our time loving without having to hate anyone else. You don’t have to spend that precious time loving Jews who will hurt you in return.
Also, in my mind, the farther the distance, the more likely there will be peace. I think that the anger growing inside will eventually erupt into a much greater fiasco if not dealt with right away.
November 25, 2012 at 5:08 pm #908717
Morah Rach- you should ask your husband why he doesn’t ask his parents for money. Maybe he’s too proud to ask for handouts and tries to work really hard so he doesn’t need to ask. Maybe he asked for too much as a kid and got everything but now his parents put their foot down. It doesn’t seem right that a parent wouldnt want to help their only married child with a child of their own. What would happen if your husband sat your parents down and had a serious conversation with them? Maybe his parents don’t think he needs help. Hatlzacha to you and your family Morah Rach
November 26, 2012 at 9:06 am #908718
Morah Rach: I am in a similar situation where my in laws give each of their married couples a certain stipend each month and we do not get, I think their reason is because they think my job provides enough and we do not need their help. I got married with a good job B”H and so they never started with us. Couples before and subsequent ones get a stipend from them every month.
My motto is “They owe me nothing” SOmetimes its hard, and sometimes it gets sticky but I keep thinking they are nice pple and they dont owe me anything. Here and there they buy gifts for the children.
I used to think maybe they don’t have enough to give, but the children is the family that got married after us get this stipend. It is only my husband and I that dont get. B”H I still have a great relationship with them.
November 26, 2012 at 5:35 pm #908719
Poster: What you are describing about yourself is almost the opposite of MorahRach’s situation. Morah is in dire financial circumstances and needs the financial assistance. And yet her in-laws are not only not helping, but they are helping the siblings who don’t need it. You, on the other hand, are in a good financial situation yourself and don’t need the financial assistance. So your in-laws are helping the siblings who need it more than you.
Quite different than Morah’s matzav.
November 26, 2012 at 7:51 pm #908720
MorahRach: I sympathize with your situation and i hope you find a solution soon!
As a mother of a few young children, i wish i could stay home! But on the other hand, i cant afford to stay home and for my sanity, i think its really good for me to get out, have a schedule, and some time for myself. Paying a babysitter (plus tuition for the children in school) is alot of money but there is no choice there. I need to pay my bills, i need to survive and i cant do that without a 2 income household. My in laws cannot help and my parents try to help every now and then.
One thing i did notice is that when there comes a time that we dont know where the money will come from, Hashem sends us the money in the form of a bonus or a gift from grandparents. My family is not wealthy but they do try to help me and my siblings.
I know that you said you arent getting anything from your in laws who are clearly in a position to help you, and i was not trying to rub it in. My point is that you will see, you do your part and Hashem will help! I work every day and found a part time job that is flexible that i can work from home for a couple of hours a week. My husband too works in addition to his learning. There is no more time that i can give to making a parnassah as i want to spend time with my children too. I know i am doing my part and i know Hashem will help me when i need it!
Keep your chin up and know that although your in laws can but dont care to help, your Father knows and will be there for you!!
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