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1. The Goq™
   Founder, President, Vice President and CEO of the CR Welcome Wagon!

   One of my duties for the Yeshiva at which i work is to send out statements for outstanding pledges these can be for tuition or a dinner journal ad among many other things, there are so many of these, why do people for example say ok ill take a half page ad bill me for it and then totally neglect it until some point in the future when they will just say i never made such a pledge how dare you?

   pledge

   solemn undertaking: a solemn promise or undertaking
   something given as security: something delivered as security for the keeping of a promise or the payment of a debt or as a guarantee of good faith

   Posted 11 months ago #

2. working harder
   Member

   your right. However, many times people are pressured into pledges by badgering phone calls and that the only way to get people to back off

   Posted 11 months ago #

3. The Goq™
   Founder, President, Vice President and CEO of the CR Welcome Wagon!

   No one is holding a gun to their head and some people are serial offenders making pledges they have no intention of paying this seems to me to be gneivah getting something for nothing at the expense of a Yeshiva no one is forced to do anything these lapsed pledges are broken promises, false vows shame on anyone who does this.

   Posted 11 months ago #

4. DaasYochid
   a singular mind

   I never pledge. If I want to give, I give a CC# over the phone. If I want to think about it, I ask to be sent an envelope. They always ask if they can put me down for $18. When I say no, they say they're putting me down for $10, and I tell them no. They often later send me a bill. I know I didn't pledge because it's my policy (so that I don't end up breaking a promise - tov shelo tidor...).

   I would be dan these people l'kaf z'chus that nobody can really trust the recorded pledges since the telemarketers are often unscrupulous.

   Although if they really did pledge, they obviously must pay.

   Posted 11 months ago #

5. Shticky Guy
   THE SHTICKIEST POSTER IN THE ©®

   I Pledge......Forget it i changed my mind

   Will you please stop quoting Obama the whole time!!!

   Posted 11 months ago #

6. The Goq™
   Founder, President, Vice President and CEO of the CR Welcome Wagon!

   We don't do telemarketing where i work and they get something for their pledges a dinner ad or a raffle ticket etc.

   Posted 11 months ago #

7. Csar
   Joseph

   Halachicly, if someone was pressured by the telemarketers persistence, and refusal to take no for an answer, to pledge an amount he didn't want to, is obligated to fulfil it?

   Posted 11 months ago #

8. oomis
   Member

   I have reached a point where if I get such phone calls, I will no longer make a pledge, but ask them to send me an envelope and IF I am able to, I will send something. I get inundated with these calls, and I am of limited means to begin with, and now have the added expenses of the various repairs that were emergencies recently, including the checking of all and replacing of some mezuzahs. That takes first priority.

   Posted 11 months ago #

9. DaasYochid
   a singular mind

   I have reached a point where if I get such phone calls, I will no longer make a pledge, but ask them to send me an envelope and IF I am able to, I will send something.

   And then they probably tell you that you DID pledge.

   Posted 11 months ago #

10. coffee addict
    Once killed a Troll with his bare hands

    additionally, mention that Hashem doesn't let people into Gan Eden if they break a pledge (I don't know it that helps though)

    Posted 11 months ago #

11. coffee addict
    Once killed a Troll with his bare hands

    the additionally was going to a previous post which a mod blocked

    (whistling)

    also whistling

    Posted 11 months ago #

12. oomis
    Member

    D"Y I actually got a call thanking me for my pledge of $100 the previous year, from an organization whose name I did not ever hear of before.

    Posted 11 months ago #

13. DaasYochid
    a singular mind

    Oomis, I get that all the time (except they don't usually have the chutzpah to say $100, it's usually $18 or $36).

    Posted 11 months ago #

14. The Goq™
    Founder, President, Vice President and CEO of the CR Welcome Wagon!

    Can we get back to the original point of this thread people who make pledges get something for it and choose not to pay?

    Posted 11 months ago #

15. DaasYochid
    a singular mind

    Can we get back to the original point of this thread people who make pledges get something for it and choose not to pay?

    Not much to discuss. Everyone agrees it's wrong.

    Posted 11 months ago #

16. HaLeiVi
    Plays the aeolian harp by air

    They are getting nothing for nothing. What's the ad worth? Every Yeshiva gives away "major discounts". Both gain. The Yeshiva wants it to look like more people gave a lot, and the guy gets his discount.

    Posted 11 months ago #

17. DaasYochid
    a singular mind

    Haleivi,

    But a pledge was made to the yeshiva! And despite the fact that the yeshiva might gain from an unpaid ad, there was no such agreement, and the "donor" did get his ad printed.

    Posted 11 months ago #

18. seedys
    Member

    Actually, if a person just pledged by phone, and did not sign a pledge document or statement, he is not obligated to pay, but should pay.

    The above is what my former boss, a respected Rosh Yeshiva told me.

    Posted 11 months ago #

19. shmoel
    Joseph

    So if someone made a pledge by phone and got an ad in return, he can technically not pay his pledge even though he got an ad?

    Posted 11 months ago #

20. coffee addict
    Once killed a Troll with his bare hands

    @seedys
    thats strange because we have a rule, amirasa l'gvoah k'miseerasah l'hedyotand vthat rule applies to tzedakah pledges even if its for an ad

    Posted 11 months ago #

21. 2scents
    Mint and Raspberry

    He should get a mi sherpora

    Posted 11 months ago #

22. Song of Blessing
    Member

    I have a question Goq. Why is the admin in the Yeshiva waiting so long till the people forget? An organized yeshiva would:

    a) send a confirmation of the phone call/pledge made by mail to the person in question
    b) would send a reminder no more than 3 weeks later of an unpaid pledge
    c) unpaid pledges should be recorded, and those people who made the pledge unable to place further ad's until their pledge is paid.

    Doesn't that make sense? Its kind of like a classroom when you run any operation or business. You have to set the rules. Then people will have no choice.

    You can't as WHY people do things. they just do, they have other things on their heads, and busy lifes. We can't judge why they're not doing it. Just give consistent and firm reminders that they are required to keep their promise.

    Posted 11 months ago #

23. The Goq™
    Founder, President, Vice President and CEO of the CR Welcome Wagon!

    Shira we send out these statements every single month.

    Posted 11 months ago #

24. Song of Blessing
    Member

    Ah well I guess just badger them till they pay up ;). There's no sense in loosing out money for the yeshiva just coz people can't be honest or on top of their game. I know that the yeshiva here doesn't stop badgering us till we pay, and I'm ok with it. Its hard to remember everything!

    Also It would DEF work to tell them they can't advertise next time. But I don't get how can they deny it, dont they get an ad there that they tell you what it should say? It would be hard for someone who sends in their business card to deny that they sent it in no?

    Posted 11 months ago #

25. Song of Blessing
    Member

    BTW I didn't mean to be insulting or tell you your not doing a good job - it was from the way you wrote it sounded like no one mentions anything to them and then your expected to chase them a while later coz they didnt pay up.

    Posted 11 months ago #

26. DaasYochid
    a singular mind

    I'll try it again, as it appears in the publicly available PDF on BHI's site.
    Have the author post on his website that he releases the copyright, and we'll post it. Sorry.

    Posted 11 months ago #

27. shmoel
    Joseph

    DY: Post the title of the pdf, or some googleable search keyword(s) to find it.

    Posted 11 months ago #

28. pcoz
    Member

    I am not convinced that he is getting nothing for nothing, so here's my chakirah;

    1) Is the silver page actually worth $5000
    or
    2) Does the naming of the silver page have nothing to do (direct financial link) with the donation

    i am inclined to say that tzad(1) is correct

    Hageh atzmechah! If you took out an ad in a national paper and then told them, well it just cost you $1000 to print, they would say, forget it, the charge for the ad is $10k

    Posted 11 months ago #

29. DaasYochid
    a singular mind

    Have the author post on his website that he releases the copyright, and we'll post it. Sorry.

    No problem - understood.

    Google "Yizkor pledge" or go to http://www.businesshalacha.com/content/business-weekly-previous and download shlach 5771

    Posted 11 months ago #

30. DaasYochid
    a singular mind

    I've also forwarded a copy of the email from the BHI subscription to the YWN moderation email address.

    Posted 11 months ago #

31. DaasYochid
    a singular mind

    Moderator, thanks for letting this one through.

    Posted 11 months ago #

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