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1. ZeesKite
   Aquilone Dolce

   Want to know why Mashiach is not here yet? Just look at the Sium, I was so lucky to attend. How much pure Nachas does HaShem get, bli ayn hora so many Yidden, all together davening, answering Kaddish. All the ##,###(!!) of Yidden all there for one purpose alone, to be Mekadesh Shaim Shamaim, and give honor to HaShem's holy Torah. All the multitudes (kain yirbu) Mesaymim, most of whom are in the work force, the Galus Yid etc. using spare minutes, hard earned minutes to join a shiur, chabura, chavrusa. How much pure, unadulterated joy does HaShem get from this!! This is one thing that's going to missing when Mashiach comes - the struggle and Nachas of the Galus yid. Whether struggling to learn despite his career, financial difficulties, any other Galus-driven Yetzer Haras - it's so precious to HaShem.

   I felt so good sticking in my pudgy little nose into, and joining, the (??,???) Yidden who were Menachem the Ribono Shel Olam, a mere few days after Tisha b'Av, in the BEST WAY POSSIBLE!!!

   Posted 9 months ago #

2. ZeesKite
   Aquilone Dolce

   MODs please change that the heading to "OUR"

   Posted 9 months ago #

3. choppy
   How Much Wood Can Joseph Chop If Joseph Could Get Away From The Coffee Room

   You are so right. It was a gevaldike Kiddush Hashem!

   Btw ZK, did you take the Catskills bus from the college?

   Posted 9 months ago #

4. HaKatan
   Member

   Speaking of the Siyum HaShas, there is certainly discussion there about Moshiach's coming.

   There are certainly those who hold that the world will continue more or less as is, except that "Vihaya Hashem LiMelech Al Kal HaAretz BaYom Hahu Yihye Hashem Echad uShmo Echad", that even the gentiles will be 100% sure that Hashem is the Creator.

   But regarding what I perceive to be the main point of your thread, I was hoping to hear some of the numerous kiddush Hashem stories that must have occurred to so many.

   From the coverage I saw thus far, it seemed clear that the secular world simply cannot relate to what a simcha this was for so many dedicated people, men, women and children, each for their own unique and important role in this wonderful individual and global simcha in finishing Shas and all the hard work, sacrifice, etc. that this entails.

   Posted 9 months ago #

5. Feif Un
   Proud Modern Orthodox

   When certain Jews won't attend because a Rav from Israel is speaking, that prevents Mashiach from coming.

   Posted 9 months ago #

6. a mamin
   Tomid Besimcha!!

   Feif Un: It figures you would go ruin a totally beautiful thread like this with your comment. Now lets see why????

   Posted 9 months ago #

7. ultimateskier
   Member

   My friend was saying that watching a live stream online is just ad good and i answered that the whole point of the siyum was to be in the vicinity of thousands of jews all in one place with one common goal! Matan torah there were 600000 jews excpeting the torah, oleh regel all te jews allcame to yirushalayim...its amazing how now in galus we still find a way to join together, chasidim, yeshivish, modern, working, kollel, all in ine place...and why did we join? Because we finished shas! Thats amazing! We stood by har sinia and excepted a torah, and now we reunite three thousand years later to celebrate the continuation of that acceptence. That cannot be captured on a stream online, you have to be sitting in that stadium and all tou see us a black mob of ppl, and all tou hear ate divrieh torah, and evrryone is ubited in song and dance.
   If we can accomplish this in galus then i am SOOO excited for moshiach to come and the ENTIRE jewish nation will be united!

   Posted 9 months ago #

8. ZeesKite
   Aquilone Dolce

   (a mamin, please a little lower.)

   One thing I'd like to state - I'm Baruch HaShem blissfully ignorant of political sciences in general and especially regarding kehillos, personalities. I'm well aware of so much "politica", after-effects of the siyum, who, what, why... So much tongue wagging and etc. I heard co-workers and friends go on and on with all the details, groups, personalities.. (How do you type with two fingers in your ears?)

   Baruch HaShem, He somehow hooked me up with the Chafetz Chaim's lifelong movement long ago, enough not to CARE for these maladies. מה יתן לך ומה יוסיף לך. Sometimes ignorance IS bliss. So maybe my pekel will be somewhat less.

   One more point, all these averos notwithstanding, it was still certainly well worth it. The massive kiddush HaShem and Kovod HaTorah, chachameha and lomdeha was unparalleled.

   Posted 9 months ago #

9. YW Moderator-42
   Life, The Coffee Room, and Subtitles.

   I agree with Feif Un, unfortunately that was the one very sad part about this whole wonderful event. I think that had that not happened, had all the protesters come anyway and stood up in respect for a talmid chacham when he got up to speak, mashiach would have revealed himself right there during the siyum.

   About the live stream, it was a great thing for those who could not attend in person, but on the other hand, I think that it takes away from the event because people feel they don't have to come in person, they can just watch it online. One of the great things about this type of event is being together with almost 100,000 Jews in the same place, singing, dancing, hearing divrei chizzuk, and being mikadesh Shem Shamayim. Watching it online just doesn't compare. It was for this reason that I thought it a good thing that the asifa wasn't streamed online (although they didn't stream it for other reasons, a discussion for another thread)

   L'havdil, like any big football game, this event was sold out so many people couldn't come for lack of room, so you couldn't just "black it out" online. IY"H, 7.5 years from now we will all join together in the Beis Hamikdash in Yerushalayim for the next siyum and Hashem will perform an open miracle that millions of people will all have 4 amos of space.

   Posted 9 months ago #

10. Feif Un
    Proud Modern Orthodox

    Thank you, 42.
    I strongly disagree with Satmar's view on Israel. Yet once when I had the chance to hear a Satma dayan speak, I went to hear it, and even went to shake his hand afterward.

    Posted 9 months ago #

11. moskidoodle
    Roy G. Biv™

    ...and why did we join? Because we finished shas!

    No. We started again

    Posted 9 months ago #

12. 2scents
    Mint and Raspberry

    Feif,

    Just so that you understand their point of view.
    Because this Rav that was invited to speak represents something that those people (the non attenders) are against. They felt that it would be inappropriate for them to attend.

    To those people, it was L'havdil as if an apikoress would be invited to speak. Although they badly wanted to attend, they felt that according to their beliefs it would be inappropriate to do so.

    Posted 9 months ago #

13. Feif Un
    Proud Modern Orthodox

    2scents:
    Maybe that's the reason I didn't go to the internet asifa. I hold like the Gra, and I didn't want to be in a stadium full of apikursim.

    Posted 9 months ago #

14. choppy
    How Much Wood Can Joseph Chop If Joseph Could Get Away From The Coffee Room

    The GRA's spiritual talmidim were there. Almost all the Great Litvishe Gedolim, Talmidim and Hamon Hoam. The GRA referred to specific people in his time, not later generations. (And his talmidim agreed the whole incident was batul, in any event.)

    Posted 9 months ago #

15. 2scents
    Mint and Raspberry

    Feif,
    A. The Asifa wasn't for chasidim just as the Siyum wasn't for litvaks.
    B. although one must give the upmost respect for ANY Talmid Chacham, I was only pointing out why certain 'groups' decided not to attend the siyum.

    Posted 9 months ago #

16. HaKatan
    Member

    With all due respect to the Rav and his Torah, he still represents the State of Israel. This is plain and obvious.

    Therefore, I can see why going to the siyum would have been problematic for those who so strongly *and correctly* understand that Zionism is not Judaism, as their attendance would have implied an acceptance of halachic legitimacy of the State of Israel, which of course is not the case.

    Again, the only "sad" part about this is the tremendous damage the Zionists have inflicted on our people. Otherwise, this has nothing to do with Mashiach, and I disagree with Mod/42 that they should have gone "even though" the Rav was there. Besides, if it bothers "the Satmar", unless they came to protest in your face, then why not live and let live? There is anyways no chiyuv to go to a Siyum HaShas.

    Unlike the Internet Asifa, incidentally, nobody was told they should attend this siyum. So it would appear more appropriate to have attended the Asifa, where there was a wide-spread call for attendance, than the Siyum, if one were going to choose only one event.

    It seems the Siyum was a 100% Kiddush Hashem. B"H!
    May the next one be in the rebuilt B"H with the true geulah BB"A.

    Posted 9 months ago #

17. YW Moderator-42
    Life, The Coffee Room, and Subtitles.

    if someone from Beis Shammai was invited to speak at an event, would the talmidim of Beis Hillel not come in protest?

    You don't have to agree with "the other group"'s mehalech, but they are Jews too, they are talmidei chachamim too, and this event had nothing to do with the particular machlokes so why not have achdus? Why not put politics aside and make a kiddush Hashem and give kavod to Torah. (Unless you are considering a whole group of Jews to be apikorsim and therefore not b'chlal amisecha)

    Posted 9 months ago #

18. choppy
    How Much Wood Can Joseph Chop If Joseph Could Get Away From The Coffee Room

    What if the group was Conservative Jews? It is also often said they had "talmidei chachamim" like Saul Lieberman. Yet the gedolim told us we cannot have anything to do with them.

    Perhaps you feel this is different. Obviously some of the gedolim felt it is the same.

    Posted 9 months ago #

19. Shraga18
    Member

    "why not put politics aside"

    42, the above ridiculous sentence shows that you have not bothered to research Satmar et al's mehalach and opinion, which have absolutely nothing, zip, nada to do with politics.

    So how about not venturing denigrating comments about large group of religious Jews before you do so?

    Thank you

    Posted 9 months ago #

20. HaKatan
    Member

    Mod 42, your comparison is not valid. I know of a sefardi rav whose Shabbos afternoon drashos were well-attended by ashkenazim in the town. That might be a valid Beis-Shammai/Beis-Hillel comparison. B"H, there is plenty of achdus in Klal Yisrael.

    Again, whatever group it is that did not go ("Satmar" for the sake of this discussion), could not go because Rabbi Lau clearly represents Zionism (regardless of his reason for coming), and Zionism is Treif.

    Even though his Torah is not halachicly ch"V treif as a result, is it so difficult to comprehend that, due to Rabbi Lau's presence, that "Satmar"'s attendance would have implied an acceptance of Zionism and that is a non-starter? (That's not "politics", BTW; it's, lihavdil, Torah.)

    Choppy made the point well, too.

    Posted 9 months ago #

21. Health
    Member

    Mod 42 -I agree with you. I would have gone even though I'm at least as right wing as Satmar, if s/o would have bought me a ticket.
    Now I'm surprised that they asked s/o who doesn't learn Daf Yomi to be Mesayem. I read a little grumbling by some on different sites, but most people for some reason don't care. I wonder why?

    Posted 9 months ago #

22. choppy
    How Much Wood Can Joseph Chop If Joseph Could Get Away From The Coffee Room

    Rav Kotler WAS mesayim. He gave a Daf Yomi shiur the entire 7.5 year cycle that just completed.

    Posted 9 months ago #

23. Health
    Member

    choppy -"Rav Kotler WAS mesayim. He gave a Daf Yomi shiur the entire 7.5 year cycle that just completed."

    And where does he give this Shiur and what are the times?

    Posted 9 months ago #

24. Shraga18
    Member

    Health,

    How do you know he didn't learn DY?

    Posted 9 months ago #

25. Health
    Member

    Shraga18 -"How do you know he didn't learn DY?"

    That part of my post came from the impression from other posts on different sites. It's quite possible Choppy is right. I have been out of that part of town for quite some years. When I was there Rabbi Shia Krupenia gave the Daf Yomi in the Yeshiva for as long as I can remember, probably like 20 -25 years or more. If Choppy knows that R. Kotler started giving such a Shiur either first or second -hand knowledge, then he would be able to answer my question.
    And even if he is correct, they skipped over Rabbonim who have been giving Daf Yomi Shiurim for years and years and years.

    Posted 9 months ago #

26. big deal
    Member

    42 - why is the onus of achdus fall on the ones who did not show?

    It really is Agudah's fault. They know all about this anti - zion shittah - its not something new. They should not have invited such a controversial figure as R' Lau to speak knowing that it would ruffle other people's feathers.

    Posted 9 months ago #

27. moskidoodle
    Roy G. Biv™

    When certain Jews won't attend because a Rav from Israel is speaking, that prevents Mashiach from coming.

    If at the next Siyum Hashas one of those people were speaking would you go?

    Posted 9 months ago #

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