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Kashrus observance

(28 posts)
  • Started 2 years ago by mommamia22
  • Latest reply from rebdoniel

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  1. mommamia22
    Member

    How can a restaurant have a reliable hashgacha/certification if they are open on shabbos??
    Dunkin donuts is open seven days a week and yet they have a hechsher and many very frum people eat there.
    I don't understand.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  2. DaasYochid
    a singular mind

    The frum people eat there on Shabbos?

    Seriously, why can't an establishment owned by a non-Jew be open on Shabbos? He has no obligation to keep Shabbos. If the kashrus certifying agency is able to make sure that all of their standards are kept (which may indeed be more difficult, but not impossible), then it's doable.

    Personally, I'd prefer to eat in an establishment which both has an owner who is shomer Shabbos and a yarei shomayim, and has a strong hechsher as well.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  3. JayMatt19
    Member

    Big difference if owned and run by goyim vs. owned by yidden

    Posted 2 years ago #
  4. rebdoniel
    Modern/Open Orthodox

    DD is a very strictly controlled franchise.

    If a business is owned by a goy, there is no issue, and Reb Moshe authorized the use of shtar mechira for Jewish places open on shabbos.

    Many places even with OU hashgachas do a prepaid meal and are open on shabbos.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  5. uneeq
    Ironically, redundant subtitles can be redundantly ironic.

    The mashigiach can walk in on Shabbos too. And a non-Jewish owner can operate on shabbos last time I checked.

    Kashrus agencies do the same all the time when certifying factories that run 24/7. Once in a while, the mashgiach stays at a hotel that is within walking distance to the factory and makes a surprise visit on shabbos.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  6. abcd2
    Member

    It is owned by a non jew,and therefore can be open on shabbos.Just like other kosher non jewish businesses it is spot checked continuosly even on shabbos and yomim tovim.Mashgiach even found a violation and pulled hechsher from one of them.Additionally, all ingredients are reliable and most of the kosher franchises have their product made in a central location so easier to check on Kashrus.The ones on long Island are the same re ingredients and are checked by five towns Vaad.
    BTW the hechsher under Rabbi Mehlman is not valid for baskin robbins in the store(as per sign posted which many people do not realize). He requires that only kosher flavors under KVH or Star D are in the stores he certifies donuts for, but refuses to give hechser on the fresh to order cakes and favors, they must have an individual hechsher from KVH or Star D as ice cream cakes can use different types of fillers and decorations including ones with non-kosher ingredients.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  7. zahavasdad
    zahavasoneluckygirl

    DD does not need a mashgiach temidi.

    A Mashgiach CAN work on Shabbos, otherwise how could Nursing homes serve food and be glatt kosher

    Posted 2 years ago #
  8. mommamia22
    Member

    Thanks

    Posted 2 years ago #
  9. apushatayid
    Member

    Is there a halacha, donut shenisalem min ha'ayin?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  10. uneeq
    Ironically, redundant subtitles can be redundantly ironic.

    Mmmmm....Donuts shenisalem min ha'ayin

    Posted 2 years ago #
  11. yaakov doe
    Member

    One must wonder why Dunkin Donuts and previously Krispy Kreme donuts used the hashgacha of a Rabbi Mehlman. Is he a donut specialist? Is there a reason that none of the recognized organizations give hashgacha to Brooklyn Dunkin Donuts?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  12. DaasYochid
    a singular mind

    Put a donut in front of me, and pretty soon it'll be nisalem min ha'ayin.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  13. ravnhw
    Member

    I had always heard that there were no Kosher DD in Queens b/c the VHQ would not give Hashgacha to any restaurant, owned by Jew or non-Jew, that was open on Shabbos. However, they do give Hashgacha to the Kosher DD in Great Neck so who knows?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  14. 147
    -105

    Being that Dunkin Donuts is run by Nochrim, I have even procured Donuts on Motzei Pesach, as clearly the donut was in ownership of Nochri during time of Pesach.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  15. Babka
    Member

    Being that Dunkin Donuts is run by Nochrim, I have even procured Donuts on Motzei Pesach, as clearly the donut was in ownership of Nochri during time of Pesach.

    If you're talking about the location I think you are, they actually sold it to a jew over pesach. The owners are religious christians and are not allowed to own chometz over easter week.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  16. TheBearIsBack
    (Otis)zviller Rebbe

    "The owners are religious christians and are not allowed to own chometz over easter week."

    LOL. There is no idea of chometz in notzrus - the only possibility here is that the owner belongs to a "messianic" cult congregation.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. anon1m0us
    Member

    This Shayleah is on anything produced by nochrim and opened on Shabbos. Entermains, Lolaya Nishmas, Hostess Bakery, etc where they are massed produced in the midwest. A better question would be is who turns onthe oven if for whatever reason they go out on shabbos? These are all questions the hashgocha agencies think about and find solutions.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. gavra_at_work
    caution

    Being that Dunkin Donuts is run by Nochrim, I have even procured Donuts on Motzei Pesach, as clearly the donut was in ownership of Nochri during time of Pesach.

    Interestingly, they will not sell to you "Bichdei SheYaase", as is true for Motzei Shabbos as well. I have heard stories to that effect, where the non jewish counterperson at DD in the 5T has refused to sell to an Yarmulka wearer right after Shabbos. (I think it is 20 min.)

    I guess the Vaad there does a good job.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. popa_bar_abba
    Incorrigible; eccentric; somewhere between mean and average; sometimes only a bit over the top; arbitrarily engaged in cynicism.

    A better question would be is who turns onthe oven if for whatever reason they go out on shabbos?

    Donuts are not raui for shulchan melachim. See StarK guidelines on their website.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. popa_bar_abba
    Incorrigible; eccentric; somewhere between mean and average; sometimes only a bit over the top; arbitrarily engaged in cynicism.

    LOL. There is no idea of chometz in notzrus - the only possibility here is that the owner belongs to a "messianic" cult congregation.

    The bear is back!

    (I was going to make fun of you, but then I saw the bear is back!)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. rebdoniel
    Modern/Open Orthodox

    People above accuse non-mainstream hashgachas of overseeing DD.

    Vaad of 5 Towns and Vaad of Riverdale in NYC; CRC in Chicago, Vaad of Metrowest (there is now kosher DD in West Orange), R' Teitz in Elizabeth, and R' Salfer in Baltimore are hardly what I would call lenient or unacceptable.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. nitpicker
    Member

    someone posted:
    ...and Reb Moshe authorized the use of shtar mechira for Jewish places open on shabbos...

    Please everyone bear in mind that a complex tshuva,
    with many ifs and buts, can not be summarized in a single sentence.

    your point was ( I suppose) that when all the criteria are met,
    it may be halachically possible to do so,
    and therefore the fact of the store being open may not disquallfy it from being kosher or certified. Still
    a) it raises extreme difficulties for the certifier
    b) people reading your post may misconstrue it to mean a general heter. the correct answer is 'it depends...'.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. rebdoniel
    Modern/Open Orthodox

    My point exactly was that when criteria are met, the shtar mechirs is effective, and it's use existed long before R' Feinstein.

    Le ma'aseh, Rabbi Israel Meir Steinberg and others follow this shita, whereas R' Soloveitchik wasn't fond of it on policy grounds. This was actually a case where Reb Moshe was more meikil than R' Soloveitchik.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  24. nitpicker
    Member

    and My point exactly was that

    Still
    a) it raises extreme difficulties for the certifier
    b) people reading your post may misconstrue it to mean a general heter. the correct answer is 'it depends...'.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. shimen
    Member

    uneeq:heard of 'dough' shenisalem min hueiyin' but not of 'doughnut' shenisalem min hueiyin, except when children around

    Posted 1 year ago #
  26. apushatayid
    Member

    I always hide my donuts. Especially the bavarian cream from krispy kreme.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  27. yehudayona
    Member

    So the question remains: why don't DDs in Brooklyn have a mainstream hashgacha?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  28. rebdoniel
    Modern/Open Orthodox

    Politics. Kashrus is an ugly game.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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