Kashrus observance

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  • #607495

    mommamia22
    Member

    How can a restaurant have a reliable hashgacha/certification if they are open on shabbos??

    Dunkin donuts is open seven days a week and yet they have a hechsher and many very frum people eat there.

    I don’t understand.

  • #914603

    DaasYochid
    Participant

    The frum people eat there on Shabbos?

    Seriously, why can’t an establishment owned by a non-Jew be open on Shabbos? He has no obligation to keep Shabbos. If the kashrus certifying agency is able to make sure that all of their standards are kept (which may indeed be more difficult, but not impossible), then it’s doable.

    Personally, I’d prefer to eat in an establishment which both has an owner who is shomer Shabbos and a yarei shomayim, and has a strong hechsher as well.

  • #914604

    JayMatt19
    Member

    Big difference if owned and run by goyim vs. owned by yidden

  • #914605

    rebdoniel
    Member

    DD is a very strictly controlled franchise.

    If a business is owned by a goy, there is no issue, and Reb Moshe authorized the use of shtar mechira for Jewish places open on shabbos.

    Many places even with OU hashgachas do a prepaid meal and are open on shabbos.

  • #914606

    uneeq
    Member

    The mashigiach can walk in on Shabbos too. And a non-Jewish owner can operate on shabbos last time I checked.

    Kashrus agencies do the same all the time when certifying factories that run 24/7. Once in a while, the mashgiach stays at a hotel that is within walking distance to the factory and makes a surprise visit on shabbos.

  • #914607

    abcd2
    Participant

    It is owned by a non jew,and therefore can be open on shabbos.Just like other kosher non jewish businesses it is spot checked continuosly even on shabbos and yomim tovim.Mashgiach even found a violation and pulled hechsher from one of them.Additionally, all ingredients are reliable and most of the kosher franchises have their product made in a central location so easier to check on Kashrus.The ones on long Island are the same re ingredients and are checked by five towns Vaad.

    BTW the hechsher under Rabbi Mehlman is not valid for baskin robbins in the store(as per sign posted which many people do not realize). He requires that only kosher flavors under KVH or Star D are in the stores he certifies donuts for, but refuses to give hechser on the fresh to order cakes and favors, they must have an individual hechsher from KVH or Star D as ice cream cakes can use different types of fillers and decorations including ones with non-kosher ingredients.

  • #914608

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    DD does not need a mashgiach temidi.

    A Mashgiach CAN work on Shabbos, otherwise how could Nursing homes serve food and be glatt kosher

  • #914609

    mommamia22
    Member

    Thanks

  • #914610

    apushatayid
    Participant

    Is there a halacha, donut shenisalem min ha’ayin?

  • #914611

    uneeq
    Member

    Mmmmm….Donuts shenisalem min ha’ayin

  • #914613

    yaakov doe
    Participant

    One must wonder why Dunkin Donuts and previously Krispy Kreme donuts used the hashgacha of a Rabbi Mehlman. Is he a donut specialist? Is there a reason that none of the recognized organizations give hashgacha to Brooklyn Dunkin Donuts?

  • #914614

    DaasYochid
    Participant

    Put a donut in front of me, and pretty soon it’ll be nisalem min ha’ayin.

  • #914615

    ravnhw
    Member

    I had always heard that there were no Kosher DD in Queens b/c the VHQ would not give Hashgacha to any restaurant, owned by Jew or non-Jew, that was open on Shabbos. However, they do give Hashgacha to the Kosher DD in Great Neck so who knows?

  • #914616

    147
    Participant

    Being that Dunkin Donuts is run by Nochrim, I have even procured Donuts on Motzei Pesach, as clearly the donut was in ownership of Nochri during time of Pesach.

  • #914617

    Babka
    Participant

    Being that Dunkin Donuts is run by Nochrim, I have even procured Donuts on Motzei Pesach, as clearly the donut was in ownership of Nochri during time of Pesach.

    If you’re talking about the location I think you are, they actually sold it to a jew over pesach. The owners are religious christians and are not allowed to own chometz over easter week.

  • #914618

    “The owners are religious christians and are not allowed to own chometz over easter week.”

    LOL. There is no idea of chometz in notzrus – the only possibility here is that the owner belongs to a “messianic” cult congregation.

  • #914619

    anon1m0us
    Participant

    This Shayleah is on anything produced by nochrim and opened on Shabbos. Entermains, Lolaya Nishmas, Hostess Bakery, etc where they are massed produced in the midwest. A better question would be is who turns onthe oven if for whatever reason they go out on shabbos? These are all questions the hashgocha agencies think about and find solutions.

  • #914620

    Being that Dunkin Donuts is run by Nochrim, I have even procured Donuts on Motzei Pesach, as clearly the donut was in ownership of Nochri during time of Pesach.

    Interestingly, they will not sell to you “Bichdei SheYaase”, as is true for Motzei Shabbos as well. I have heard stories to that effect, where the non jewish counterperson at DD in the 5T has refused to sell to an Yarmulka wearer right after Shabbos. (I think it is 20 min.)

    I guess the Vaad there does a good job.

  • #914621

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    A better question would be is who turns onthe oven if for whatever reason they go out on shabbos?

    Donuts are not raui for shulchan melachim. See StarK guidelines on their website.

  • #914622

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    LOL. There is no idea of chometz in notzrus – the only possibility here is that the owner belongs to a “messianic” cult congregation.

    The bear is back!

    (I was going to make fun of you, but then I saw the bear is back!)

  • #914623

    rebdoniel
    Member

    People above accuse non-mainstream hashgachas of overseeing DD.

    Vaad of 5 Towns and Vaad of Riverdale in NYC; CRC in Chicago, Vaad of Metrowest (there is now kosher DD in West Orange), R’ Teitz in Elizabeth, and R’ Salfer in Baltimore are hardly what I would call lenient or unacceptable.

  • #914624

    nitpicker
    Participant

    someone posted:

    …and Reb Moshe authorized the use of shtar mechira for Jewish places open on shabbos…

    Please everyone bear in mind that a complex tshuva,

    with many ifs and buts, can not be summarized in a single sentence.

    your point was ( I suppose) that when all the criteria are met,

    it may be halachically possible to do so,

    and therefore the fact of the store being open may not disquallfy it from being kosher or certified. Still

    a) it raises extreme difficulties for the certifier

    b) people reading your post may misconstrue it to mean a general heter. the correct answer is ‘it depends…’.

  • #914625

    rebdoniel
    Member

    My point exactly was that when criteria are met, the shtar mechirs is effective, and it’s use existed long before R’ Feinstein.

    Le ma’aseh, Rabbi Israel Meir Steinberg and others follow this shita, whereas R’ Soloveitchik wasn’t fond of it on policy grounds. This was actually a case where Reb Moshe was more meikil than R’ Soloveitchik.

  • #914626

    nitpicker
    Participant

    and My point exactly was that

    Still

    a) it raises extreme difficulties for the certifier

    b) people reading your post may misconstrue it to mean a general heter. the correct answer is ‘it depends…’.

  • #914627

    shimen
    Participant

    uneeq:heard of ‘dough’ shenisalem min hueiyin’ but not of ‘doughnut’ shenisalem min hueiyin, except when children around

  • #914628

    apushatayid
    Participant

    I always hide my donuts. Especially the bavarian cream from krispy kreme.

  • #914629

    yehudayona
    Participant

    So the question remains: why don’t DDs in Brooklyn have a mainstream hashgacha?

  • #914630

    rebdoniel
    Member

    Politics. Kashrus is an ugly game.

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