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http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/soliek-im-writing-this-book
YWN Coffee Room » Decaffeinated Coffee
Memoir called "Unorthodox" and its effect on us
(718 posts)-
Posted 3 years ago #
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Wow. D Feldman and Simon and Schuster both got a good zetz in their teeth today, her offering a gooey piece of accusatory gossip as the truth, and S&S for being so sure about her "murder" story which was accusatory gossip, that they printed it, and now turns out to be false. And its not even Purim yet.
Posted 3 years ago # -
was it really verified to be false? can you please source that? id like to see it
Posted 3 years ago # -
Hopefully we're down to the last 3 minutes or so of her 15.
Posted 3 years ago # -
soliek, based on the Jewish Week website, its rubbish. Totally unsubstantiated. They checked the records. Google it.
And the Holee of Holee (full of holes) hasnt said a word yet.
Posted 3 years ago # -
soliek: see thejewishweek
and good luck with the new contact you made. hope something works out.Posted 3 years ago # -
Even Jewish Week, a known Orthodox-hating publication, just admitted Feldman's book lied when it accused a Satmar family murdering their 20 year old son (and further lied that the community covered-up the non-existent murder.)
Yes, Feldman's lies are being exposed one-by-one.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Basically the murder story was actually reported as a suicide on the official reports. That's all that really came out of the "story" on it.
In reality, her story of a cover-up was not disproved at all. What did you expect? That if it was covered up, they'd report the truth to some reporter?
Please note that I'm not saying she is right. I honestly don't know what happened, nor do I really care. I'm just saying that there is no proof either way.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Feif: Stop joining the anti-Orthodox party. The POLICE department said it conducted a very thorough investigation and clearly determined it was suicide by a young mentally disturbed individual. Do you really believe every anti-frum lie that is printed?
Posted 3 years ago # -
Feif:
Supposedly her book contains the details of how the father killed the son, which authorities would have had in their files. It seems the authorities have different details on what they saw. Also this involved an emotionally challenged 19 year old and not a normal 13 year old like she said. People in Kiryas Yoel were shocked because there exists cover ups of different kinds, but theyre NOT known for covering up murder.
Posted 3 years ago # -
יהללך זר ולא פיך נכרי ואל־שפתיך
I'd rather listen to the testimonial of Oprah Winfrey, so well put forth, than this wild sensational filth. Isn't it so interesting both are publicized the same time!
As I wrote before I can't even say "Shem zich" / "shame on you", obviously this animal is not capable of such feelings.
Posted 3 years ago # -
if state police were involved then there would be a report...which presumably would be available to pretty much anyone...wouldnt it be easy enough to verify?
Posted 3 years ago # -
Doswin: I clearly stated I DON'T believe it. I said I don't know what to believe. There are definitely cover-ups, and who knows what they do? All I said is that the "evidence" presented by the Jewish Week was not very good. It went like this:
Accusation: There was a cover-up of a murder. People lied to the police, and the murder was never discovered.
Investigation: We spoke to the police, and the official paperwork says it was a suicide. Therefore the accusation was wrong.
It doesn't make sense - the accusation was that the paperwork was wrong! Using the paperwork as "evidence" does not refute anything.
Like I said, I'm not saying one is true and one is not. I don't know which is right and which is wrong. I'm just pointing out that this "investigation" was not very good, and the "evidence" is not very good. That doesn't mean what was written in the book was correct. It just means the refutation wasn't.
I'm definitely NOT anti-frum. I just don't like when people reach for things so they will fit what they want to hear and believe. That's what's going on here. People are so eager to condemn this author that they will jump on "evidence" like this, even when it clearly makes no sense.
Posted 3 years ago # -
ZeesKite: Oprah visited Chabad. With all the things people have against them, one thing they have for them is that they are very friendly to everyone. Do you really believe that if Oprah went to Williamsburg or KJ to visit Satmar that she'd get as warm of a welcome?
Posted 3 years ago # -
There IS an official police report that the JW obtained via FOIA, and the report had very substantial differences with Feldman's claims on this incident in her dirty book. One (of many) example is Feldman claimed the father castrated and killed his son, while the boy was never castrated.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Last night I learned that there's a campaign underway to request that The View host an opposing viewpoint to refute DF's claims about Orthodoxy. The woman who writes "Jew in the City" is being promoted. I'd also like to see someone like Rebbetzin Lori Palatnik (from Aish Hatorah) who's very eloquent. Years ago a very unusual Hassidic Rebbetzin was approached for a similar show (it may have been Donahue), but she turned them down because she knew they'd use every angle to try to present her in a negative way. And this was someone who's a highly intelligent professional, with a college degree. At the time she worked for a major international organization, and was familiar with all types of Jews. It’s a rough world out there.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Feif, I usually agree with you on most things, but I think you are likely off base here. Think about it this way. Even if everything the woman wrote about the death was true (which I don't believe, as Gary Rosenblatt at the Jewish Week is no friend of Chareidi Jews, and he is convinced it is false), she had no evidence other than hearsay, and yet she felt it was appropriate to include it in her book. That is irresponsible, and it tarnishes an already deeply flawed book even further.
Posted 3 years ago # -
do you know if the report is available anywhere online?
Posted 3 years ago # -
yichusdik: I haven't read the book yet, but from what I've heard, she never said it absolutely happened. She said her husband told her that he'd heard it through the grapevine. So it may be hearsay, but she does present it as such. Again, I don't know what happened, nor do I really care. My point is that the evidence against her was not really good at all.
As for the book being "deeply flawed", almost every review I've read actually says the book is very well written, and very engrossing. You may not like what it says, but don't knock the writing because of the content.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Mein Kamp is also "very well written" in the original German.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I have not read the book, nor do i plan to, but I believe the response should be, instead of bashing her and her decisions, to strengthening our own connection and devotion to yidishkite. I truly believe that we are only upset by something when we see that chesron in ourselves. If we strengthen ourselves and are comfortable with our relation to Hashem this type of shtus (which unfortunately happens all the time is as evident by numerous blogs) will not bother us.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I would like to make an addendum to my previous comment. It should bother us that a Jew is going off the derech. But that reaction is not anger, that reaction is more like what soliek and others have done by reaching out to her with love and concern.
Posted 3 years ago # -
"almost every review I've read actually says the book is very well written, and very engrossing."
one of the best books ive ever read
Posted 3 years ago # -
one of the best books ive ever read
Yeah, let's not get carried away here.
Posted 3 years ago # -
It just should be recategorized by Amazon and others as fiction.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Feif Un -"yichusdik: I haven't read the book yet, but from what I've heard, she never said it absolutely happened. She said her husband told her that he'd heard it through the grapevine. So it may be hearsay, but she does present it as such."
I'm not an expert in law, but if it's easily determinable who she is accusing -this could possibly be libel or slander. (I forget which one is which.)
Any lawyers -opinion please?
I hope the one she accused sues her and her publisher -then she and the publisher will get many minutes of fame. But alas there will go her fortune. Oh well, easy come -easy go!Posted 3 years ago # -
...and very engrossing."
No! - GROSSING!
Posted 3 years ago # -
It really is dishonest to comment on a book that you have not read.
You dont have to like the topic, you dont have to read it, but dont say its lousy or fiction unless you have actually read it.
Posted 3 years ago # -
feif - don't waste your breath. I understand where you are coming from but I get the same thing. Whenever I tell people to try to stick to the facts so their arguments will have some substance or credibility, I get accused of "defending the cursed". I am with you in saying that calling her names for the stuff she didn't say/do doesn't give more credence to the argument. But it doesn't defend her either.
Posted 3 years ago # -
You didn't know that Mein Kampf was fiction until you finished it cover-to-cover?
Posted 3 years ago # -
i think you can learn a lot about it by googling it
and you can say if you like or dislike it based on thatPosted 3 years ago # -
I did not read the book, BUT I did see the interview on The View. Sickening. BTW, since when does the product of a Yeshivah education that gives girls the "reading level of a 4th grader" have the ability to speak so articulately and write a publishable book that she can hawk on TV? This woman is a phony through and through. The things she asserted as truths to the co-hosts were absolute rubbish. And they fed into it! How did a girl who never graduated from high school, much less with a 4th grade level of reading, get accepted to a prestigious school like Sarah Lawrence College?
She didn't even say "Chuppah" when talking about her wedding, but pronounced it "huppah," and kept using the term "hasidim" and not "Chassidim," which though possible, is very unlikely for someone who grew up as a Satmar chossid. Her speech was surprisingly articulate for a so-called chassidic under-educated person.
Posted 3 years ago # -
actually oomis she did that for the benefit of everyone watching and, i suspect, to be disrespectful. at her book release she pronounced all of her "ches"es properly.
as to how you lear to write as well as she did...i learned how to write as well as i did on my own in 3 years with lots of practice
Posted 3 years ago # -
Naisberg: Honestly, I know absolutely nothing about what is written in Mein Kampf. I know it was written by Hitler, and I have absolutely no interest in reading it. I wouldn't know how to classify it.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Can we please stop comparing frei Jews to Hitler?
Posted 3 years ago # -
Can we please stop comparing illustrations to comparisons?
Posted 3 years ago # -
I'm actually equating them. I think it applies here. It's really over the top already.
And neither this book nor Mein Kampf are fiction, no matter how biased and ludicrous they are. Your meaning is getting buried by your rhetoric.
Posted 3 years ago # -
That's why I ignore these threads.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Good idea.
Posted 3 years ago # -
One,
I have flipped through Mein Kampf and it is fiction in that many of the facts it states were factually inaccurate. The same cannot be said for Feldman's Memoir as much as you may disagree with her viewpoints on things (such as taharas hamishpacha etc.) her facts are accurate.
(please do not bring up that stupid kj murder story. it is clear in the context of the book that she was repeating a rumor that was flying around and her reaction to it-not making claims as to it factual correctness)
Also mein Kampf was not for the most part a history book (although what it does mention is in many cases factually inaccurate) or a story of anybody's life but rather a book that painted a picture of what Hitler felt Germany and the world should be like
Posted 3 years ago # -
000646 -"The same cannot be said for Feldman's Memoir as much as you may disagree with her viewpoints on things (such as taharas hamishpacha etc.) her facts are accurate."
I'm just curious but are you non-religious or a MO with Frei leanings? I didn't read the book so I can't point out All inaccuracies, but just from what is posted above; do you really believe all Satmar High School girls graduate with a "reading level of a 4th grader"? I'm sure there are some, but probably the most have a higher level than the 4th grade. This sounds more like an inner city public school and even there I'd say most are on a higher level than 4th grade.
For you to keep posting how accurate her book is, even though it's quite obviously just another antisemitic book, you must have an agenda. What is it? Do you hate all Frum Jews or just Satmar?
If I'd want to waste my time and read her trash -I'm sure I'd find many falsehoods!Posted 3 years ago # -
OneOf, it was brought up as an illustration that even the worst book possible can be written well, if it was, and that being written well is not pertinent.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I see, 000646. So you are effectively saying that this book is dissimilar to Mein Kampf because while Hitler claimed outright lies as fact, Deborah Feldman only published false rumors. Gotcha.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I saw the View segment and while she did not give a postive spin on aspects of Satmar family life (It was a strong Negative spin) , She did not lie about it either
Posted 3 years ago # -
Health,
The 4th grade education thing is not mentioned in the book. She said it in an interview. Would you mind pointing out which facts in her book are not true? Can you explain how you know her book is "full of falsehoods" if you have not read it?Posted 3 years ago # -
Or do you just assume anything that writes something negative about your way of life is false?
Posted 3 years ago # -
Doswin,
That's silly. If she claimed in the book that a false rumor was true that would be one thing. She does not do so.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I read on a different website the following -
They were discussing the truthfullness of what she said and a teacher who had taught with her said:In her book she said she never wore makeup until her wedding. But I taught with her when she was single, and she wore makeup every single day. If I can already see this one small lie, you can imagine there are many others.
I actually doesn't matter what it's lies or not. What someone said earlier, maybe Poppa - All our Orthodox practices if explained negatively, can be made to sound awful, restricing and archaic. The Chumras of the Satmar community can be explained to sound beautiful too, I'm sure. Distortion is also a form of a lie.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Zehavasdad and 00646 : Your anti chasidish or anti- Satmer AGENDA is Sickening!! Go to the blog against Deborah Feldman and see what all her "friends" and " neighbors " tell you about her lies!
Posted 3 years ago # -
Kolel Wife,
Most satmar and even yesivish people have a problem with their teenage single daughters wearing makeup. In fact just about evrey girls highschool in lakewood has a rule against it.
You said:
"I actually doesn't matter what it's lies or not. What someone said earlier, maybe Poppa - All our Orthodox practices if explained negatively, can be made to sound awful, restricing and archaic. The Chumras of the Satmar community can be explained to sound beautiful too, I'm sure. Distortion is also a form of a lie."
Saying how a practice seemed negative to you is not a distortion any more then saying it seemed beutifull to you
Posted 3 years ago #
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