- This topic has 81 replies, 39 voices, and was last updated 4 years ago by .
-
Posts
-
It’s eating by a nephew considered to be mishing?
That’s up to you to decide, in conjunction with your Rav.
For me, it’s not a problem because I don’t have a problem eating by others (and having them eat by me) on Pesach.
The Wolf
In addition, people do not lend utensils to other people on Pesach. [Natei Gavriel Pesach 40:4:footnote 7. Not lending other people your keilim on Pesach is minhag yisroel.]
mik5: “Minhag Yisroel”? Certainly Sefardim do lend Keilim. And it is not a unanimous Minhag among Bnei Ashkenaz, though it is fairly common, especially among Chassidim.
From Shulchanaruchharav Web site:
[the guest]
“eating by a nephew”? “considered to be mishing”?
To be true to the echt minhag; one could not eat by a nephew or a daughter for that matter. That’s the way it was in Europ.
I think the minhag came as a result of everybody being so dirt poor and could not afford to be generous with their paltry food.
The minhag came about as yekke2 eloquently described. Sam2 doesn’t like it for obvious reasons, and shalom al yisroel.
cherrybim, I doubt that is the reason, otherwise why not have a rule of no mishing for all the yomim tovim?
The pure no mishers eat exclusively food that was prepared in there own home.
squeak: Just curious, what do you think the “obvious reasons” are?
squeak: Just curious, what do you think the โobvious reasonsโ are?
Just had a chance to read your post about your mother’s family washing every piece of meat and fish before starting the cooking processes, thus no processed meat or minced product.
My mother’s side arrived in the USA from Germany in 1868 (Yekkes or short coat German Jews). They also had this tradition.
However, I remember both my Oma and mother mincing (grinding) their own hockfleisch (beef and/or veal) so that they could make burgers, meatballs or meat loaf for Pesach meals.
Also, mother (as well as us) had a separate Pesach kitchen, so wursts were prepared Chanuka time for Pesach use. The first time I ever had commercially made salami or frankfurters on Pesach was when I spent a yuntif at my paternal grandparents at the age of 12.These traditions are not those of my paternal line or my wife’s family. However, I still make some wursts in advance of Pesach, and will smoke turkey, duck and salmon as well
And we’ve gone and ruined Sam2’s Yom Tov again.
Oh well.
One of the DILs is an accountant by training, but works in the family law firm. She read this thread and figured out that if the CTL relatives, machatunim, friends and neighbors did not MISH on Pesach we could have served 840 fewer meals this Pesach.
I said that would both be boring and have deprived Mrs. CTL and myself great pleasure in life.
There are people who, on Pesach, don’t eat anything that was produced outside of their home (with certain limited exceptions, like some people will buy wine or matzah from the store, while others will make their own; obviously, fruits and vegetables are not a processed food, but many people are makpid to peel them prior to eating). This minhag includes both processed foods and mishing, which are the same thing – as one is eating something that was not produced under his supervision.
If you eat processed foods, then you are by defintion mishing. It is the same thing.
“If you eat processed foods, then you are by defintion mishing. It is the same thing.”
Meheichi tesi?To the best of my knowledge there is no hilchos mishing (yet). Processed foods are a relatively new innovation. So I dont see anything wrong with somebody who wants to keep the minghag of not miching but not in the new situation of processed foods.
As to a sevara why it would be different. Thats easy too. Processed foods are produced under the supervision of a knowledgeable individual who knows halacha and knows what to look out for. so arguably there is less of a chashash than from stam a balebustah .
Of course you can easily argue that Processed foods are worse. But I m not sure why you decide they are “by definition… the same thing” Stranger still you seem to accept that wine and matzah are allowed from outside the home
I know folks who don’t mish (regarding eating) all year.
Joseph – So these folks would never eat (anything?) by a chasuna, or by a Kiddush, and they are never guests by anybody for Shabbos and Yom Tov? And they never eat anyone else’s mishloach manos? But they do buy processed food from stores, right?
I know people who don’t eat meat outside of their home (Rav Miller zatzal, whose yartzeit is today, was such a person). But not to eat anything?
The minhag of some is to buy wine and matzah, due to an inability to self-produce. Although technically you could bake your own matzah, etc.
Even if there is a mashgiach etc., nevertheless in every food factory there are workers, and these workers bring in chametz for lunch, and who knows if every single one of them washes his hands before returning to work, and if the mashgiach supervises this etc.?
Mik5, oib azoi Rav Miller zt’l couldn’t eat out a Shabbos or Yom Tov seuda by anyone else.
If one goes to a chasuna, you can see right away who is makpid not to eat other people’s meat.
“The minhag of some is to buy wine and matzah, ”
Exactly and the minhag by others is to eat from supervised items but not from private homes
“nevertheless in every food factory there are workers, …”
Yes I get that, and I understand why some refrain. As I mentioned it can even be argued that mass produced items are WORSE than home cooked by someone you know, who for example wont have workers bring in treif.
All I am saying is that this statment of yours “If you eat processed foods, then you are by defintion mishing. It is the same thing.” Isnt necessarily trueThe definition of mishing (as I understand it) is that you don’t eat stuff that was produced outside of your home/ without your supervision. So whether you’re eating someone else’s food or food from the store, it’s the same thing.
The idea is that when it comes to Pesach, where the ingestion of the slightest crumb of chametz involves an automatic issur d’oraysa, you don’t want to rely on anyone else. (Even though “one person is believed regarding an issur” … but Rav Pam (or it may have been a different gadol) said that to refrain from chametz on Pesach is something that is dependent on mazel (whatever that means*). When it comes to your own mazel, you have no choice but to rely on it. But why should you rely on somebody else’s mazel?
Obviously, every person has free will, but there are times when a person could eat chametz through no fault of his own. Example: There is a worker in the factory who didn’t wash his hands after lunch, and a crumb of bread fell into the food. And you had the bad fortune to buy that food and eat it during Pesach. Or let’s say you opened the window on Pesach and some crumb of chametz flew in and landed in the food. It’s not your fault; you just happened to have bad mazel.
“The definition of mishing (as I understand it) is that you donโt eat stuff that was produced outside of your home/ without your supervision. ”
Again, that is the definition as you understand it. This does not make it so. (plus even lishitascha this isnt accurate because you allow for wine and matzah)
I’m familiar with this idea behind it. But the bottom line is there is no “hilchos mishing” So whether mishing includes eating mass produced foods, foods from your Rebbe, sister, son, married daughter nephew Doesnt depend on what the definition is as you understand it.
Your vertel about mazal fals flat too. I’m not sure how my eating food that you dropped a crumb into r”l is dependent on your mazel. In your last paragraph you acknowledge this that it depends on my bad luck if the worker mixed his bread in.
If you have bad mazel, you might open a window and a crumb of chametz will fly in and land in your food.
That’s why I don’t want to rely on your mazel and I don’t want to eat by you on Pesach.
If you have bad mazel, then maybe the matzos that you baked are for some reason not 100% kosher. That’s why I don’t want to rely on your matzos and I will bake my own, and rely on my own mazel.
(I am just saying this as an example to explain those who are machmir not to mish; I personally am not machmir at all.)
Men mish zich nisht.
Sam2 – This is an official invitation to join us for the meal of your choice over Yom Tov. ๐
Talking about milking Matzo coffee, i.e. pouring boiling coffee onto Matzo with sugar added, please bear in mind on 1st day Pessach this year, also being the Holy Shabbos this year, that if pouring boiling coffee onto the Matzo, or adding Matzo to the soup, that this must be into a Keli Shelishi, to avoid potential “Bishul Acharei Affiyo” issues which could constitute a violation of the 4th of the 10 commandments.
To Mish or not to Mish, that is the question.
The last day people get together and mishen is allowed. ืื ื ืื ืืื ืืื ื ืขืื ืฉืืช ืืืื ืื ืืื how good and nice it is when brothers sit together. They are brothers in mitzvos.
On Achron Shel Pesach even gebrochts is allowed.
According to virtually all rabbonim, even those that during other years are meikel and permit mishing, this year it is strongly prohibited to mish.
On the other hand, according to some poskim, due to the special situation this year, it may be permissible to eat outside (non homemade) prepared food this year, assuming it carries a highly reliable hechsher for Pesach.
Moderator, can you move this thread to DECAFFEINATED? Thank you!
Currently leider we will not have this problem as we are isolated from others for Pesach . If only we could mish that should be our biggest sin. ืืืื ืืฉืื ืืื?
Josef, whats the different, if it is called mishing then you won’t eat there?? Don’t tell me that if someone tells you that it is mishing you won’t eat there.
I was told that ืืื stands for ืจ’ืช ืืื ืืจืืื ืืขืื we should do our best being alone for Pesach.
On the general issue of “mishing” – there are many who will not mish on Pesach, but have no problem buying products produced by others – whether commercially or individually – before Pesach. The reason is that before Pesach, one can be somech on Bitul even for Chametz Gamur (though that of course is not what we want to do) – while on Pesach, Chametz is not Batul even in 1.000, so people want to be extra careful on Pesach itself.
As an aside – I was told by my grandmother that the reason people had a Minhag not to eat garlic is because in Europe, farmers used to dip the garlic in flour before bringing it to the marketplace to sell in order to make it look whiter.
an Israeli Yid
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.