Mishing on Pesach

Home Coffeeroom Yom Tov Pesach Mishing on Pesach

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  • #1144911

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    It’s eating by a nephew considered to be mishing?

    That’s up to you to decide, in conjunction with your Rav.

    For me, it’s not a problem because I don’t have a problem eating by others (and having them eat by me) on Pesach.

    The Wolf

    #1144912

    mik5
    Participant

    In addition, people do not lend utensils to other people on Pesach. [Natei Gavriel Pesach 40:4:footnote 7. Not lending other people your keilim on Pesach is minhag yisroel.]

    #1144913

    Sam2
    Participant

    mik5: “Minhag Yisroel”? Certainly Sefardim do lend Keilim. And it is not a unanimous Minhag among Bnei Ashkenaz, though it is fairly common, especially among Chassidim.

    #1144914

    mik5
    Participant

    From Shulchanaruchharav Web site:

    [the guest]

    #1144915

    cherrybim
    Participant

    “eating by a nephew”? “considered to be mishing”?

    To be true to the echt minhag; one could not eat by a nephew or a daughter for that matter. That’s the way it was in Europ.

    I think the minhag came as a result of everybody being so dirt poor and could not afford to be generous with their paltry food.

    #1144916

    squeak
    Participant

    The minhag came about as yekke2 eloquently described. Sam2 doesn’t like it for obvious reasons, and shalom al yisroel.

    #1144917

    The Queen
    Participant

    cherrybim, I doubt that is the reason, otherwise why not have a rule of no mishing for all the yomim tovim?

    The pure no mishers eat exclusively food that was prepared in there own home.

    #1144918

    Sam2
    Participant

    squeak: Just curious, what do you think the “obvious reasons” are?

    #1252838

    Chortkov
    Participant

    squeak: Just curious, what do you think the “obvious reasons” are?

    #1254531

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @yekke2

    Just had a chance to read your post about your mother’s family washing every piece of meat and fish before starting the cooking processes, thus no processed meat or minced product.

    My mother’s side arrived in the USA from Germany in 1868 (Yekkes or short coat German Jews). They also had this tradition.

    However, I remember both my Oma and mother mincing (grinding) their own hockfleisch (beef and/or veal) so that they could make burgers, meatballs or meat loaf for Pesach meals.
    Also, mother (as well as us) had a separate Pesach kitchen, so wursts were prepared Chanuka time for Pesach use. The first time I ever had commercially made salami or frankfurters on Pesach was when I spent a yuntif at my paternal grandparents at the age of 12.

    These traditions are not those of my paternal line or my wife’s family. However, I still make some wursts in advance of Pesach, and will smoke turkey, duck and salmon as well

    #1254571

    Chortkov
    Participant

    And we’ve gone and ruined Sam2’s Yom Tov again.

    Oh well.

    #1258870

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    One of the DILs is an accountant by training, but works in the family law firm. She read this thread and figured out that if the CTL relatives, machatunim, friends and neighbors did not MISH on Pesach we could have served 840 fewer meals this Pesach.

    I said that would both be boring and have deprived Mrs. CTL and myself great pleasure in life.

    #1259189

    mik5
    Participant

    There are people who, on Pesach, don’t eat anything that was produced outside of their home (with certain limited exceptions, like some people will buy wine or matzah from the store, while others will make their own; obviously, fruits and vegetables are not a processed food, but many people are makpid to peel them prior to eating). This minhag includes both processed foods and mishing, which are the same thing – as one is eating something that was not produced under his supervision.

    If you eat processed foods, then you are by defintion mishing. It is the same thing.

    #1259198

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “If you eat processed foods, then you are by defintion mishing. It is the same thing.”
    Meheichi tesi?

    To the best of my knowledge there is no hilchos mishing (yet). Processed foods are a relatively new innovation. So I dont see anything wrong with somebody who wants to keep the minghag of not miching but not in the new situation of processed foods.

    As to a sevara why it would be different. Thats easy too. Processed foods are produced under the supervision of a knowledgeable individual who knows halacha and knows what to look out for. so arguably there is less of a chashash than from stam a balebustah .

    Of course you can easily argue that Processed foods are worse. But I m not sure why you decide they are “by definition… the same thing” Stranger still you seem to accept that wine and matzah are allowed from outside the home

    #1259200

    Joseph
    Participant

    I know folks who don’t mish (regarding eating) all year.

    #1259802

    mik5
    Participant

    Joseph – So these folks would never eat (anything?) by a chasuna, or by a Kiddush, and they are never guests by anybody for Shabbos and Yom Tov? And they never eat anyone else’s mishloach manos? But they do buy processed food from stores, right?

    I know people who don’t eat meat outside of their home (Rav Miller zatzal, whose yartzeit is today, was such a person). But not to eat anything?

    #1259692

    mik5
    Participant

    The minhag of some is to buy wine and matzah, due to an inability to self-produce. Although technically you could bake your own matzah, etc.

    Even if there is a mashgiach etc., nevertheless in every food factory there are workers, and these workers bring in chametz for lunch, and who knows if every single one of them washes his hands before returning to work, and if the mashgiach supervises this etc.?

    #1260136

    Joseph
    Participant

    Mik5, oib azoi Rav Miller zt’l couldn’t eat out a Shabbos or Yom Tov seuda by anyone else.

    #1260473

    mik5
    Participant

    If one goes to a chasuna, you can see right away who is makpid not to eat other people’s meat.

    #1260460

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “The minhag of some is to buy wine and matzah, ”

    Exactly and the minhag by others is to eat from supervised items but not from private homes

    “nevertheless in every food factory there are workers, …”
    Yes I get that, and I understand why some refrain. As I mentioned it can even be argued that mass produced items are WORSE than home cooked by someone you know, who for example wont have workers bring in treif.
    All I am saying is that this statment of yours “If you eat processed foods, then you are by defintion mishing. It is the same thing.” Isnt necessarily true

    #1260497

    mik5
    Participant

    The definition of mishing (as I understand it) is that you don’t eat stuff that was produced outside of your home/ without your supervision. So whether you’re eating someone else’s food or food from the store, it’s the same thing.

    The idea is that when it comes to Pesach, where the ingestion of the slightest crumb of chametz involves an automatic issur d’oraysa, you don’t want to rely on anyone else. (Even though “one person is believed regarding an issur” … but Rav Pam (or it may have been a different gadol) said that to refrain from chametz on Pesach is something that is dependent on mazel (whatever that means*). When it comes to your own mazel, you have no choice but to rely on it. But why should you rely on somebody else’s mazel?

    Obviously, every person has free will, but there are times when a person could eat chametz through no fault of his own. Example: There is a worker in the factory who didn’t wash his hands after lunch, and a crumb of bread fell into the food. And you had the bad fortune to buy that food and eat it during Pesach. Or let’s say you opened the window on Pesach and some crumb of chametz flew in and landed in the food. It’s not your fault; you just happened to have bad mazel.

    #1260561

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “The definition of mishing (as I understand it) is that you don’t eat stuff that was produced outside of your home/ without your supervision. ”

    Again, that is the definition as you understand it. This does not make it so. (plus even lishitascha this isnt accurate because you allow for wine and matzah)

    I’m familiar with this idea behind it. But the bottom line is there is no “hilchos mishing” So whether mishing includes eating mass produced foods, foods from your Rebbe, sister, son, married daughter nephew Doesnt depend on what the definition is as you understand it.

    Your vertel about mazal fals flat too. I’m not sure how my eating food that you dropped a crumb into r”l is dependent on your mazel. In your last paragraph you acknowledge this that it depends on my bad luck if the worker mixed his bread in.

    #1262460

    mik5
    Participant

    If you have bad mazel, you might open a window and a crumb of chametz will fly in and land in your food.

    That’s why I don’t want to rely on your mazel and I don’t want to eat by you on Pesach.

    If you have bad mazel, then maybe the matzos that you baked are for some reason not 100% kosher. That’s why I don’t want to rely on your matzos and I will bake my own, and rely on my own mazel.

    (I am just saying this as an example to explain those who are machmir not to mish; I personally am not machmir at all.)

    #1487749

    Joseph
    Participant

    Men mish zich nisht.

    #1501895

    Chortkov
    Participant

    Sam2 – This is an official invitation to join us for the meal of your choice over Yom Tov. 🙂

    #1501941

    147
    Participant

    Talking about milking Matzo coffee, i.e. pouring boiling coffee onto Matzo with sugar added, please bear in mind on 1st day Pessach this year, also being the Holy Shabbos this year, that if pouring boiling coffee onto the Matzo, or adding Matzo to the soup, that this must be into a Keli Shelishi, to avoid potential “Bishul Acharei Affiyo” issues which could constitute a violation of the 4th of the 10 commandments.

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