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Sam2, I didn’t find it in the B”Y. I did find a similar heter in Halichos Shlomo, for chazzanus and classical music for a sick woman. (Moadim, ch. 11, Orchos Halacha 54). He seems to be mattir slow music, though (???? ??????? ?? ????).
DY: I’ll look again, I guess. I thought all the later Mekoros quoted the B”Y. Check the Shearim Metzuyanim Behalachah on the Kitzur too.
DaasYochid and Sam2; I had the opportunity tonight to review the thesuvos in Igros Moshe that both of you have been quoting. Actually, R’Moshe gives absolutely no new reason why music would be ossur in the sefirah EXCEPT that it is an extension of the issur of all year round (to which he holds, BTW) and therefore, even for those who are meikel all year round, he says it is ossur in sefirah because it “adds simcha”. R’moshe says this ,so be it. However, his psak does not obligate everyone. You have quoted some sources that are meikel with recorded music and this is eminently logical. Hence, allow people to do each one “keminhogo” as we are not obligated to accept this new chumroh.
Sam, I’m going to guess that some may be extrapolating that heter from the B”Y being mattir certain cases, such as music for workers doing physical labor, to help them work (which would, agav, indicate that for exercise it would be muttar).
However, l’aniyus daati, there’s a chilluk. In the B”Y’s case, the purpose of the music is not for the enjoyment, it’s for the motivation. In the case of a nervous person, she does need the enjoyment, albeit to calm her nerves. Hence, R’ Shlomo Zalman was only mattir b’tziruf that the type of music he’s talking about is of questionable issur anyhow.
I have heard it many times from my Rav, a talmud of Reb Moshe, b’shem Reb Moshe. I have also seen it quoted in print. I’m sure others can back me up.
ROB, as I mentioned on the other thread, the minhag haolom is definitely to avoid recorded music as well (if I’m not mistaken, you originally said that even live music is okay). You can’t disregard that, unless you’re specifically part of a group which is meikil. If your screen name, for instance, indicated that you were a Chaim Berlin talmid, that would be a different story, as R’ Hutner was meikil.
Cherrybim, he very well may have been meikil baal peh or in writing somewhere else, in certain cases.
daasyochid: actually, I said very clearly that I felt that live music could be prohibited because it has a sense of extra simcha and I could stomach the chumro. I did argue about recordings and your second assumption is therefore correct too.
But the basic question remains. There is no indication that the geonim or the rishonim added music- even live music- to the “aveilus” of sefira. This only started about two hundred years ago (if Sam2’s assumption about the pri megodim is right) and so, why? why add extra aveilus? I do not understand why.
BTW- i do belong to the chassidische world that is quite meikel in aveilus ,as the halacha would be.
My impression, correct me if I’m wrong, is that the chassideshe velt does not listen to music during sefirah.
daasjochid: I wrote “meikel in aveilus”, not directed at sefirah. I have no idea what many chassidim do during sefirah with music.
DY: You’re right, of course. I forgot that depression was an extrapolation from L’zarez Bim’lachah and not explicit, but it is an extrapolation mentioned in the Poskim. By the way, we are more Machmir on music during Sefirah than the Mechaber is all year round, because we aren’t Meikil on Shiros V’tishbachos. I’m not sure why though. (I also seem to remember the SHM”Bon the Kitzur bring down that if it will reinforce your Emunah it’s Muttar as well.)
“he very well may have been meikil..”
As an aside, Lubavitch permits playing and listening to Chabad albums during s’firah.
cherrybim: You have brought some background to this matter. R’Moshe zz’l believed that music is ossur all year round (see some of his teshuvos) and only reluctanlty acquiesced to the kulos of today.Hence, R’Moshe zz’l felt that during sefirah we should assert the halacha of all year round. And, if you read the teshuvos on music and sefirah ,it becomes even clearer that R’Moshe zz’l felt thast this was an extension of all year round halacha.
However, as a large part of klal yisroel is “meikel”on music all year round, it becomes much more difficult to prohibit music during sefirah. It seems that the “tsibbur’ accepted an issur for live performances but many groups are “meikel”‘ on recorded music, such as Chabad, mentioned by yourself, Rab Hutner zz’l and his talmidim and even R”moshe zz’l himself who allowed chazanut on sefirah.
This approach would at least give the Issur of music during sefirah some substance, which it doesn’t have now.
rob,nicely put…music to my ears.
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