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1. squeak
   Makes smalltalk with the 2 most intellegent beings on Earth

   We know that Tzoirech Oichel Nefesh is permitted on Yom Tov. But this is only when it is Shaveh L'chol Adam (i.e. it is a need for everyone).

   Some things that were shaveh l'chol adam in prior generations are not now, and vice versa. Two examples that come to mind are smoking and showering.

   Smoking was permitted on Yom Tov because everyone who enjoyed smoking smoked. Nowadays this is not the case - many people who would enjoy smoking do not do so because it is known to be a health hazard. Therefore, this is not shaveh l'chol adam.

   Showering or bathing was done infrequently, and therefore it was forbidden to wash one's entire body with hot water on Yom Tov. Nowadays, it is the rare person indeed who will go for 2 days without showering (and not only an istanis who will feel dirty). When there is a 3 day Yom Tov even more so - it is nearly unheard of today that an adult would go for 3 days without a shower. Seemingly, this is something that IS shaveh l'chol nefesh.

   We all no that no Rav has issued a psak assuring smoking or permitting showering on Y"T. My question is why not?

   Posted 2 years ago #

2. SJSinNYC
   always pleasant

   We all no that no Rav has issued a psak assuring smoking or permitting showering on Y"T. My question is why not?

   Squeak are you refering to a normal shower? I know many people who do shower on YT with a shinui. My family doesn't but I think that has more to do with ignorance on how to do it right than being stricter.

   Posted 2 years ago #

3. Be Happy
   Member

   If you need a shower or bath for health provided your hot water system is such that it is permitted to use on YomTov speak to a Rov. I was suprised how easily I got permission. A Rov must be asked.

   Posted 2 years ago #

4. mepal
   Member

   Hey! So maybe we really CAN take showers on Yom Tov! Yippee!

   Now we just need a Rav to back us on that one.

   Posted 2 years ago #

5. Feif Un
   Proud Modern Orthodox

   squeak: Many Rabbonim have said it is assur to smoke at all. Why should they make a specific psak for Yom Tov?

   Posted 2 years ago #

6. pookie
   Member

   why don't u ask ur rav, i asked mine and he said i can shower on yom tov and smoking thats never allowed

   Posted 2 years ago #

7. squeak
   Makes smalltalk with the 2 most intellegent beings on Earth

   Feif, good point, but would you admit that there is a difference, even to those Rabbonim, between smoking on Shabbos and smoking on Y"T? I don't understand why though.

   Posted 2 years ago #

8. pookie
   Member

   i use liquid soap instaed of a soap bar and to shampoo my hair i was the tips of my fingers instead of my whole hand and i don't dry my hair

   Posted 2 years ago #

9. mepal
   Member

   pookie: Thats a real bedieved shower.

   Posted 2 years ago #

10. pookie
    Member

    mepal why?

    Posted 2 years ago #

11. mepal
    Member

    Liquid soap, no sponge sooo....
    And then you gotta wash your hair with the tips of your fingers? May I assume you're a male? And not drieing the hair...wouldn't work for all of us :-/

    Posted 2 years ago #

12. pookie
    Member

    i donna know i've been doing this for years

    Posted 2 years ago #

13. squeak
    Makes smalltalk with the 2 most intellegent beings on Earth

    This from Webster's online.

    show·er

    Function: noun

    Etymology: Middle English shour, from Old English scūr; akin to Old High German scūr shower, storm, Latin caurus northwest wind

    Date: before 12th century

    1 a : a fall of rain of short duration b : a similar fall of sleet, hail, or snow

    2 : something resembling a rain shower ; especially : a fall of meteors which belong to a single group and whose trails appear to originate at the same point in space

    3 : a party given by friends who bring gifts often of a particular kind

    4 : a bath in which water is showered on the body; also : the apparatus that provides a shower

    I call your attention to #4. Per that definition, I would say that the only requirement to be called a shower is that you must get wet. Anything above that is lifnim mi'shuras hadin. And we all know that nobody here is looking for extra chumros.

    Posted 2 years ago #

14. mepal
    Member

    Like I said, that too is bidieved...

    Posted 2 years ago #

15. oomis1105
    Member

    Though I myself have never showered on yom tov, my son learned in Yeshiva both here and in E"Y that it is permissible with a change in the regular way, and if only done for the immediate cleansing (no long, protracted showering)of individual body parts. Hair washing is NOT included, particularly for people with hair of a length that water could be squeezed from it. When washing hair, you cannot help but be socheit the water as you wash it.

    As to the smoking on Y"T, well that halacha (the heter part)likely came at a time when people smoked regularly (including some of the rabbonim) and it was not yet known about the health hazards both to the smoker and to the environment. Since the burning of fire for tzorech ochel nefesh was permissible, so too was the smoking considered as "ochel nefesh (ask any woman who has quit smoking and immediately gained thirty lbs. if smoking was not her "ochel nefesh") Nowadays, all of us are presumably more educated and intelligent, and the layman as well as the rov knows that smoking is not only NOT ochel nefesh, it is mamesh sakanas nefesh, and therefore many if not most poskim would probably look at smoking as an issur for ANY day of the week, kal v'chomer on yom tov. Just my opinion.

    Posted 2 years ago #

16. squeak
    Makes smalltalk with the 2 most intellegent beings on Earth

    mepal, it's one thing to be machmir on yourself, but to call the ikkar hadin (the definition) "bedieved", well - try not to get carried away in your self-righteousness :)

    Posted 2 years ago #

17. squeak
    Makes smalltalk with the 2 most intellegent beings on Earth

    oomis:

    1) There is no schita regarding hair. The problem would be with the towel. People use the mikve on Shabbos or Yom Tov - which gets hair just as wet as a shower.

    2) Smoking certainly is tzoreich oichel nefesh - what else would it be? What you mean to say is what I said above - it is not a tzoirech that is shoveh l'chol adam.

    Posted 2 years ago #

18. mepal
    Member

    I want someone to find some kind of hetter to take a real, good shower. Oh, and to use a haiblower afterwards too one we're at it.

    Posted 2 years ago #

19. squeak
    Makes smalltalk with the 2 most intellegent beings on Earth

    mepal, why stop there? How about a heter for a shower radio too? And heated towels, etc.

    Posted 2 years ago #

20. mepal
    Member

    wait wait, dont overdo it. They wont let ANYTHING if we ask for too much. Lets do this one slowly.

    Posted 2 years ago #

21. Jax
    Member

    i bet our CR Rosh Yeshiva can find some heter for you mepal!

    Posted 2 years ago #

22. mepal
    Member

    Oh, call him please... Truth is, theres no three day YT for another while, no?

    Posted 2 years ago #

23. squeak
    Makes smalltalk with the 2 most intellegent beings on Earth

    There's lots of them next year, and the year after that, and in 4 and 5 years :)

    Posted 2 years ago #

24. Jax
    Member

    mepal: wish i could get Rav Moish here!.......;)

    Posted 2 years ago #

25. mepal
    Member

    you're scaring me, squeak.

    Posted 2 years ago #

26. Feif Un
    Proud Modern Orthodox

    What exactly does ochel nefesh mean? Does it mean food, something you gain sustenance from? If that's the case, then smoking may be allowed on Yom Tov, but it shouldn't be permitted on a fast day - and I know people smoke on fast days.

    Posted 2 years ago #

27. oomis1105
    Member

    Feif un, when my rov sends out the Hilchos Tish B'av each year, he specifically assers the smoking, because , "As it should be assur to smoke any time of the year because it is a sakana to one's health, kal v'chomer it is surely assur on Tisha B'av."

    Posted 2 years ago #

28. oomis1105
    Member

    "1) There is no schita regarding hair. The problem would be with the towel. People use the mikve on Shabbos or Yom Tov - which gets hair just as wet as a shower."

    Squeak, I don't know how you wash your hair, but when I do, there is DEFINITE sechita. How can you possibly shampoo and rinse hair without some form of sechita, unless your hair is SO short that there really is nothing to squeeze? And yes, the towel is a problem, yet strangely, we wash and dry our hands for Ha-Motzi on Shabbos, and women who go to the mikvah on Friday night are allowed to gently pat the excess water from their hair with a towel, without squeezing it. If you are not using shampoo, there is really no reason for the head to get wet altogether when showering. An adult can easily shower without the water going on the head. And if not, then it is perhaps time to invest in a hand-held shower attachment so that only the soiled parts of the body are washed.

    Posted 2 years ago #

29. squeak
    Makes smalltalk with the 2 most intellegent beings on Earth

    Squeak, I don't know how you wash your hair

    Sigh. I wonder if there's anyone left who remembers the answer to that question.

    Posted 2 years ago #

30. mepal
    Member

    you have none?

    Posted 2 years ago #

31. Moderator-80
    Member

    You can squeeze your hair directly into a towel (solid to solid) just like you can squeeze a lemon directly onto fish. You can't squeeze your hair so the water goes onto the floor (but even this is only d'Rabbonon because you don't want the water and it is not being collected)

    Posted 2 years ago #

32. squeak
    Makes smalltalk with the 2 most intellegent beings on Earth

    Sorry, no personal questions allowed in the CR.

    80 - where oh where did that psak come from?

    Posted 2 years ago #

33. mepal
    Member

    You mean no personal answers.

    Posted 2 years ago #

34. Moderator-80
    Member

    I don't recall exactly when and where (or was it "where oh where") I learned that squeak, but I found this just now:

    "Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach ztz”l writes [6] that squeezing water from hair directly into a towel is permitted, just as we find that one may squeeze a lemon onto fish; in both cases a liquid is not produced. The way to do it is to place a towel on one’s hair and slowly and gently rub the towel on the hair. Rubbing hard or quickly can cause water to drip from the hair onto the floor etc. which is prohibited."

    from this website
    http://www.shemayisrael.com/parsha/ostroff/archives/shabbos5_23.htm

    Posted 2 years ago #

35. squeak
    Makes smalltalk with the 2 most intellegent beings on Earth

    Thanks :)

    Posted 2 years ago #

36. pookie
    Member

    by not taking a shower it can possibly ruin someone else's yom tov

    Posted 2 years ago #

37. Joseph
    Sometimes A Bit Over The Right

    Or possibly your Gan Eden.

    Posted 2 years ago #

38. mepal
    Member

    Yeah, its mi-uss.

    Posted 2 years ago #

39. pookie
    Member

    true

    Posted 2 years ago #

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