I am more outraged that Trader Joe's is now making their delicious pareve, and allergy-safe (for my granddaughter, who cannot have even traces of nuts) chocolate chips, MILCHIG or produced on milchig equipment.
It's fine, they're still pareve.
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OU kashrus is not reliable?
(84 posts)-
Posted 11 months ago #
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slicha, but D I R T Y ?fries? What's in a name. What next?!
Also,some people could wrongly assume the fries in question are "sour cream flavour" ,therefore wrongly deducing that is why they are not "dairy" designated.
A hechsher is supposed to make it all easier,much easier.
Posted 11 months ago # -
P.S some of the ingredient lists on a lot of food packages are so small they are often unreadable.
Please, can the ingredient lists be made a point 14,to make them readable, perhaps even in legislation.
I know some packets are too small for this, so how about a protruding sticker?
It could also induce manufacturers to reduce the number of their ingredients,if self life and taste are not compromised.Posted 11 months ago # -
Oomis,
I too, sent them an email (I've never actually used their chocolate chips, but I know that they're supposed to be better).
You're 100% right - money talks. If enough people complain, they might switch back. It's actually not, if I'm properly informed, a manufacturing issue, but a packaging one. Yitayningwut might be technically correct (AYLOR), but I don't think it's a good idea to rely on it, since if it ever really becomes milchig, you might never know.
Sorry about the nitpick.
Posted 11 months ago # -
You're 100% right - money talks. If enough people complain, they might switch back.
I'm not sure if you're referring to the company or the hashgacha agency...
Posted 11 months ago # -
I sure hope that quote would not apply to a hashgocha agency.
Posted 11 months ago # -
If you are all concerned with a REAL kashers problem check out this weeks issue of mishpacha and find out what goes on at some kosher catered events
Posted 11 months ago # -
yitayningwut:
"You're 100% right - money talks. If enough people complain, they might switch back."
I'm not sure if you're referring to the company or the hashgacha agency...
Tomche:
I sure hope that quote would not apply to a hashgocha agency.
I was, of course, referring to Trader Joe's, but yitayningwut very cleverly applied it to the hechsher.
That's "l'shitaso".
Posted 11 months ago # -
DY - I know that from the standpoint of the product it is still milchig (assuming they did not change the formula at all, but only the equipment on which it is processed). BUT - I asked a shailah and my rov paskened we could not bake for fleishigs with it, i.e. put it in cookies being served at a Shabbos meal on the same table where there are meat dishes though we COULD serve it immediately after the meal with no waiting time.
The shame is that TJ chocolate chips are superior in taste to the others. I used to use Nestles until they became milchig, then went to Paszkes, Bloom's, and whatever the Jewish brands are. But when my granddaughter became allergic to nuts, her doctor (a frum guy) advised us that in his vast experience, the Jewish-owned companies were not absolutely honorable in their ingredient listings, and chidlren who were allergic to peanuts or other traces of nuts, were having anaphylactic reactions (one near-fatality) to an item that had no listing of nuts or production in a nut-processing facility in its ingredients. So he believes that it is better not to trust those companies. the kosher, secular companies like Nabisco, have a safer track record. Only issue is dairy versus pareve, as most of their products are dairy. it ain't easy.
What I don't get is how these companies cut their noses off by turning away lactose intolerant or allergic customers. That has nothing to do with kashrus, and one would think that would matter to them, if the Oerthodox consumer does not.
Posted 11 months ago # -
FYI: This OU alert was published on YWN: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=128296
Posted 11 months ago # -
Oomis,
I assume the first line in your post was a typo - "milchig" shoud read "pareve".
I think the issue is not the frum companies per se, but store brands in general (the frum companies don't usually have their own facilities; they kasher the facilities which produce generic products).
It might be worth a shot to contact Manischewitz and ask them if Mishpacha brand chocolate chips have any traces of nuts. Manischewitz is a fairly large company.
Posted 11 months ago # -
This OU alert
The CRC alert was about an OK product (although this discussion started about the OU).
Posted 11 months ago # -
Wow! There are like 50 things on that list. Is their system so poorly run? And I would have assumed they were also recallong them and were just sending out the list in case someone had them.
Editor: maybe ask them if they'll write an article for YW explaining why they think it is sufficient to send an email and not even try to recall them.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Wow! There are like 50 things on that list. Is their system so poorly run?
To make a fair determination, you'd have to know the total number of items they certify. If they certify hundreds of thousands of products (which the OU claims they do), 50 might not be too bad.
50 is also a gross exaggeration. Most of those are not OU, and some are that the certification is missing, not wrong.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Chips are very often added into salads, including salami salad, or even used to bread chicken. So the risk of milk and meat is extrmely real. (And I love Beigel & Beigel's sour cream flavored chips in salads.)
So yes consumers have to be vigilant, but even more so the kashrus agency as many people trust them blindly, and causing others to sin and placing a stumbling block in front of somebody are both severe transgressions.
Posted 11 months ago # -
What would you have done if there was no D on milk duds?
Posted 11 months ago # -
Oomis,
I emailed Manischewitz, and they responded that Mishpacha chocalate chips are nut free.
Posted 11 months ago # -
I saw a skver hechsher on a 7 day candle last week which was 100% vegetable oil. lichorah the naphaka minah is if the candle falls into your cholent. also lichorah if the candle was paraffin wax you wouldn't need a hechsher in the first place
Posted 11 months ago # -
I emailed the OU's webbe rebbe (kosherq@ou.org) about this issue. Their response:
Thank you for contacting the OU.
Regarding the Dirty Chips, (Sour Cream):
Each bag has ink-jetted on the date code an OU-D and / or word dairy.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Each bag has ink-jetted on the date code an OU-D and / or word dairy.
Two problems:
1. That doesn't help, since nobody checks the date code once they see the regular OU on the bag.
2. The guy on the phone did not say that.Posted 11 months ago # -
Popa,
Did you see that on your bag?
Posted 11 months ago # -
I already threw out the bag; like I said, I don't usually look for other OU's once I see the first one.
Posted 11 months ago # -
I agree with you on problem #1.
Maybe the guy on the phone did too.Posted 11 months ago # -
Hi Wolf,
I dont want to box you into a corner, but again, your statement that, "it's a matter of practicality" is a bit shallow.
We do not live as Jews for the sole reason the things we do are practical.
Again, maybe you didnt really mean to ask, that if someone does not want to eat OU because of the credibility of the hechsher, "Then what would you eat?"
Posted 11 months ago # -
I dont want to box you into a corner, but again, your statement that, "it's a matter of practicality" is a bit shallow.
So, I'm shallow. That's probably the nicest thing you* can say about me.
The Wolf
* I don't mean "you" personally -- I mean "anyone."
Posted 11 months ago # -
PBA & others - If you don't eat OU, then you can't eat Vaad of Balto. OU is more Machmir in Bishul Acum. Vaad of Balto. holds using the glow bar is enough, but OU won't be Somieach on this Heter. Also Tarkitor Rov, I think they had a discussion about it here in the CR. OK & Chof-K - many people have Taanos on also. And to say all these Av Dak Hechsherim aren't Someiach on the main guys is patently false. Why? Because unless they have Chemists working for them - how do they know what is inside all these chemicals? (And chemical ingredients aren't just a few ingredients inside food products.) They don't. They are Someiach on the big guys.
So if you want not to eat OU - don't eat anything processed - do like some do on Pesach.
I personally eat almost any Orthodox Hechsher - "Aid Echod Neeman B'issurim."
As far as Timtum Halev - I already have my fill from the Net. (;0Posted 11 months ago # -
Hey Wolf,
You misunderstand. It is not about you. The scope of the topic was a complaint about OU.
Some people were critical of the person questioning the validity of an OU hechsher for a certain case.
You gave as a support to your view something of the tone that if you are going to avoid OU, then you will have very little to choose from.
The implications were that the kashrus/treif issue COULD be compromised based on having less choices of food.
That point just stood out begging to be addressed.
You are not shallow!
Posted 11 months ago # -
Anybody recall OU scandal with sardines 2 years ago? unfortunately their level of trust and their standard of kashrus is very shady..
Posted 11 months ago # -
Popa,
Aren't most of the syrups used in Starbucks flavored coffees certified by the OU?
Posted 10 months ago # -
IIRC, a teacher of mine was a part time Mashgiach for OU. He mentioned that they have the ability to recall a product whenever they need to. I also remember him saying that OU takes a collateral to guarantee that if a company starts pulling funny business, OU has the ability to properly advertise the loss of Kashrut. The company he was talking about had a $70,000 collateral.
Also, I agree with Popa in regards to getting misled by the labeling. Nowadays, almost all flavors are fake that nothing is surprising anymore. We have sour cream flavored chips in Israel which are quite good that are pareve. If the ingredients said anything different I wouldn't have noticed.
I guess what some posters are tayning is that OU doesn't have so much ne'emonus in the first place; so it's really Popa's fault for not doing some lab research before eating.
Posted 5 months ago # -
OU has very Choshuv & eminent Rabbonim on their Va'ad, & it is 100% Motzi Shem La'az & unacceptable to in any way denigrate these Gedolei haDor.
OU is a top notch Hechsher, and we should all be Makir Tov for the wonderful work they do for us.
Posted 5 months ago # -
OU has very Choshuv & eminent Rabbonim on their Va'ad, & it is 100% Motzi Shem La'az & unacceptable to in any way denigrate these Gedolei haDor.
OU is a top notch Hechsher, and we should all be Makir Tov for the wonderful work they do for us
Of course. But it is important for people to know that you can't rely on the symbol, and you really need to call them about each product each time you buy it. (or be signed up for the email alerts, and go search them each time, but not everyone even has email.)
And that that is what they think everyone is doing, and that they rely on that.
So, I guess they're really good at kosher certifying, but just not great about communicating it to the public.
Posted 5 months ago # -
or be signed up for the email alerts
I hope this point was brought up & endorsed at the Asifah?Posted 5 months ago # -
It is a problem that the industry, and some of the big players have grown to unmanageable proportions. Add to that the global nature of the business, and the subcontracting of manpower in remote locations. While you might trust the OU, you might not want to rely on some of the subcontractors if you, for instance, don't regard the followers/worshipers of a dead Messiah as reliable Jews. I only heard of this phenom from a me'siach l'fi tumo.
Posted 5 months ago #
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