January 8, 2018 8:12 am at 8:12 am #1444287
When does someone disclose having had plastic surgery, such as rhinoplasty, on a date?
A while ago, there was a situation where a husband sued his wife for not telling him about her plastic surgery.
… Is plastic surgery disclosure the same as disclosing a gastric bypass?
Thank you 🌷January 8, 2018 2:26 pm at 2:26 pm #1444677
Questions for a Rov not the CR.January 8, 2018 3:06 pm at 3:06 pm #1444709
Halachic questions shouldn’t be discussed online, iac?January 8, 2018 3:06 pm at 3:06 pm #1444703
Don’t see the issue in Rhinoplasty. Why would a man care?January 8, 2018 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #1445980
Why would a man care? Because maybe he doesn’t want to have children with noses that look like ski jumps!!!!!January 8, 2018 8:13 pm at 8:13 pm #1446017
They can just get nose jobs too.January 9, 2018 11:00 am at 11:00 am #1446199
Joseph: They most definitely can be. My response is to ask a Rov especially on the gastric bypass issue.January 9, 2018 11:31 am at 11:31 am #1446375
Didn’t think of that… In the case maybe she’d need to present a before picture..January 9, 2018 2:06 pm at 2:06 pm #1446504
Ugh this is a sickening discussion to me at least. In general, anything that makes a big difference to a marriage should be discussed. Not every bit of information needs to be disclosed such as every wound suffered or every first grade secret.
The fact this discussion is even taking place means there are people in the Torah world who have reached such a low level that they value looks as the ikkar so they would get upset about such a thing. I don’t know anyone who for plastic surgery for shidduchim either and the suggestion that one would need one to get married I also find sickening.January 9, 2018 3:45 pm at 3:45 pm #1446567
Ugh this is a sickening discussion to me at least.
So go elsewhere and vomit. No one needs your condescension here.January 9, 2018 4:32 pm at 4:32 pm #1446655
OK you’re right I was thinking this is a good application of the tochacha thread 🙂 but Otoh since I don’t know anyone personally, and no one knows me, I thought maybe its gone because it’s expressing a Torah perspective?
And also wanted to send this message to the op, who if I’m not mistaken, says she has just started shidduchim and is finding the various pressures overwhelming.
I want to tell you lb that this is not a normal Torah value, to put physical beauty above all else and therefore there is no need to succumb to such pressuresJanuary 9, 2018 7:58 pm at 7:58 pm #1446703
Who said anything about putting it above all else?January 9, 2018 7:58 pm at 7:58 pm #1446712
“I want to tell you lb that this is not a normal Torah value, to put physical beauty above all else and therefore there is no need to succumb to such pressures”
I totally agree – but if someone decides to do for eg. Rhinoplasty then obviously they do in some degree care about physical beauty. The question then is do the need to reveal this while dating with someone which possibly shares the same values..
” Why would a man care? Because maybe he doesn’t want to have children with noses that look like ski jumps!!!! ”
I kind of find it far fetched that a man should think about how his kids will look. Whatever.January 9, 2018 7:58 pm at 7:58 pm #1446717
Why would a man care? Because maybe he doesn’t want to have children with noses that look like ski jumps!!!!!
Wouldn’t the presence of a “big nose gene” be indicated by observing the noses of family members? Unless, of course, they all had plastic surgery too.January 10, 2018 8:55 am at 8:55 am #1446875
as the parent of an adopted child….I can say that your method is not foolproof.January 10, 2018 8:57 am at 8:57 am #1446844
I am not sure how one can jump to the conclusion that the plastic surgery in question is being done out of pressure to impress people in order to get married. Let’s be dan lkaf zechus as to someone’s priorities.
I know some people who had nose jobs. They all were teenagers at the time, which makes me suspect that it was more a self-image/self esteem thing than to impress others for shidduchim purposes. At least one had it done together with correcting a deviated septum that was causing breathing issues, so it was not purely aesthetic. Don’t know what they told their shidduchim prospects/husbands later on.January 10, 2018 11:51 am at 11:51 am #1447026
@wtp thanks for clarifying a reason. I was shocked I don’t know anyone who got cosmetic plastic surgery, and my husband would have been equally surprised at the question.
So I was thinking maybe these values come from watching movies, but my brother who used to watch would never elect plastic surgery and askance at anyone who would.
So would my friend who does watch although she is very into fitness.
Even my not frum and non Jewish relatives wouldn’t elect such a thing – they have pretty much despaired of finding a spouse and would consider themselves lucky to get married
The only place I could think of who obsesses with looks to such a degree is the ultimate of klipa world of Hollywood and I find it sad that Torah yidden could stoop lower on values than a typical goy.
So thanks for the lchaf zechus – although those girls must feel awfully insecure which should be addressed as well. And what’s the lchaf zechus for a man who would get angry at not knowing?January 10, 2018 2:16 pm at 2:16 pm #1447171
My cousin watches TV and he never got plastic surgery.
WhateverJanuary 10, 2018 3:15 pm at 3:15 pm #1447185
It appears you lead a sheltered or insular life.
Not all plastic surgery is for the type of Goyische vanity your describe.
Not everyone who has plastic surgery announces it to friends or family.
The term plastic surgery is often assumed to mean ‘cosmetic’ surgery. In reality Cosmetic surgery is of the vanity type, while plastic surgery is of the restorative type: think burn victims, or someone who had had a disfiguring accident.
Some rhinoplasty is cosmetic, some is to repair issues such as a deviated septum.
I had plastic surgery 30 years ago on my hand after large bone spurs were removed. The excess skin was removed and a seamless reattachment was made. No visible scar.
My wife knew, my parents and siblings never didJanuary 10, 2018 3:43 pm at 3:43 pm #1447202
Some rhinoplasty is to repair issues such as a deviated septum, and eh, while they’re there, they might as well make it look nice also.January 10, 2018 4:02 pm at 4:02 pm #1447228
@ct lawyer yes I try to keep out the garbage of the world’s as much as possible, so I can see the G-dliness within to the best of my ability. Thanks for explaining that. I guess it seemed from the previous posts that it was of the vanity type etc hence my posts. There is no problem with plastic surgery for health reasons. I don’t understand why someone would be upset not being told that though? Because if it’s a one off exception to the norm, I would think it wouldn’t be posted here… But I’m happy to be wrong :).January 10, 2018 4:03 pm at 4:03 pm #1447237
Some rhinoplasty is cosmetic, some is to repair issues such as a deviated septum.
I had a surgical procedure to correct a deviated septum. The procedure was called septoplasty, not rhinoplasty. But I’m not an expert on medical terminology; maybe the terms are used interchangeably.
In the context of this topic, I suppose that a deviated septum would fall into the category of items that warrant discosure.January 10, 2018 5:18 pm at 5:18 pm #1447260
OK, since we dealt with the side getting the surgery, now to the other side.- why would the man care, or why would the girl feel that the man would care and there is a need to share the info?
Perhaps he could get upset, not because the surgery or the old nose could have been a deal breaker, and he is shallow and only into looks, but because he felt excluded from what may have been a significant event/decision/emotional factor in his wife’s/date’s life.
Or maybe there is a concept of deception here- maybe she feels uncomfortable about presenting herself as one way, when really she is/was something else.January 10, 2018 8:32 pm at 8:32 pm #1447310
If the repair to the deviated septum did not require changes to the exterior of the nose you would not have had rhinoplasty in addition to the septoplasty.
At times changes to the exterior are required to accommodate corrections to the septum or other interior parts of the nose and thus Rhinoplasty is performed as well.
Sometimes, a plastic surgeon will get the insurance company to pay for the cosmetic Rhinoplasty by stating it is necessary in order to complete medically necessary work.
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