PURIM TORAH!!!!

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  • #589441

    labochur
    Member

    Anybody got some gishmake peerim torah? PLEEEASE share it- I’d love to hear it!

    #1062219

    Jothar
    Member

    I thought I would wait until Adar, but this one isn’t my own, so I’ll put this one up early.

    It says that Haman was evel vachafui rosh. the meforshim say that his daughter threw garbage on his head, and when she saw it was her own father she jumped out the window and killed herself. The question is, shouldn’t evel come before chafui rosh, since his head was covered before she died? The answer given is that since by an object, basar meikara azlinan, as soon as she jumped out she was considered dead, even before the garbage landed on her father.

    #1062220

    jphone
    Member

    Half the “psakim” written in most of the threads here qualify as Purim Torah.

    #1062221

    qwertyuiop
    Member

    mod72: it’s almost Rosh Chodesh.$

    jphone: are you telling me that my posts are stupid??$

    #1062222

    asdfghjkl
    Participant

    jphone: care to explain that post of your??????

    #1062223

    asdfghjkl
    Participant

    labochur: i dug this up for ya!!!

    documented in Kids Speak 4:

    My name is Chaim. I am eleven. I live in Israel. At the beginning of the school year my father met my teacher on the street. At first he tried to cross to the other side because he didn’t want to hear the usual teacher complaints about me that he was accustomed to hearing year after year, but the teacher spotted him and said, “Hello, how are you. I must tell you what a wonderful boy you have. He’s progressing in his studies from day to day and his behavior is exceptional. You can be really proud of him.”

    My shocked father listened to what he said and literally burst with pride. He came home and gave me two resounding kisses, saying, “I have never had such nachas.”

    I, of course, was confused. On the one hand, I was happy with my whole heart to see my father so happy and proud of me. But on the other hand, I knew that it wasn’t true. I asked myself, Why would my teacher lie for me? I thought that maybe he was trying to encourage me, but in any case, I still couldn’t understand what was going on.

    The next day I went to school and looked at the teacher, but he acted as if he hadn’t praised me to my father the day before. I didn’t understand his game, but just to be on the safe side and as a gesture of appreciation, I tried not to disturb him in class.

    This went on several more times. Whether I behaved good or bad, my father would meet the teacher on the street and hear unimaginable praises sung about me. Then my father would return home beaming with happiness, pride and even prizes. The next day, the teacher would always act as if nothing happened. The whole thing was becoming increasingly uncomfortable and distinctly unpleasant for me. None the less, I thought I should behave better and even participate in class. My good behavior would usually last for about a week or so, after each of these encounters.

    The mystery was solved on Purim. I arrived at my teacher’s house with my father to bring him shalach manos (a Purim Gift Basket). I was wearing a mask on my face and you couldn’t recognize me. The teacher greeted my father with a joyous cry of “Happy Purim! Please come in and drink something.” Then he called his family. “Come meet the father of my best pupil. I’ve already run into him several times and, judging by his reaction, he doesn’t believe me when I tell him that his son is so outstanding.”

    My father actually blushed with pride.

    He sits at the back of the classroom yet still participates as if he were sitting right next to me.” A warning bell began to ring inside my head. It wasn’t true. I’ve sat in the front row since the beginning of the year because I disturbed the class. What was going on here? At that moment it occured to me that he must have mistaken my father for someone else’s. As if to confirm my thoughts, the teacher cried “Come, Yosef, take off your mask so that everyone can see you.”

    Yosef?!! Suddenly I understood everything. My teacher had mixed up the hardest working kid in the class with the laziest. I recalled how much Yosef’s father and mine looked alike. I started sweating under the mask and maybe there were even a few tears mixed in. My father though, was laughing, thinking that the teacher ‘mixed up’ my name as a Purim joke.

    “Chaim, not Yosef,” my father corrected him with a laugh, thinking that the teacher was continuing his Purim joke. I knew that if the teacher would explain what had become clear to him that moment, I was lost. I gave him a pleading look. Let him just not destroy my father’s Purim joy. Later, whatever would be would be.

    The teacher looked at my pleading face and said, “Oh, of course, Chaim. I must have drunk too much wine and I’m mixing up Mordechai and Haman,” he said, and my father gave a hearty chuckle.

    The scene ended somehow. My teacher shook my hand warmly, looked at me and said, as if suddenly remembering, “You know something?” he turned to my father, “Lately your son has really been making excellent progress.”

    That was the most thoughtful Purim in my life. The mystery was solved. The teacher had mistaken my father for Yosef’s father and all the praises I got really belonged to Yosef. All of a sudden I realized how pleasant it was to be the best boy in class. I had never felt as good as I had in the previous weeks.

    Now I can’t wait to go back to school to thank my teacher for keeping our little secret – and to start to work hard so that next time he meets my father, the praises will really be meant for me – when I am the hardest working boy in the class.

    #1062224

    moish01
    Member

    asdfghjkl, don’t bother – he was being rude. (now with that in mind, reread it)

    #1062225

    asdfghjkl
    Participant

    moish: u talkin abt jphone??? yup i knew he was sarcastic!!!

    #1062226

    moish01
    Member

    nice, asdfghjkl. i remember that one.

    (hey did you just retype the whole thing? you’re crazy.)

    #1062227

    asdfghjkl
    Participant

    ames & moish: thanx!! ha no i did not type that all up!!! i had it in my old emails & copy & pasted it!!!!

    ames: purim torah=d’var torahos on purim!!!

    #1062228

    qwertyuiop
    Member

    ames: i think he meant “Purim Divrei Torah”.$

    #1062229

    Jothar
    Member

    Purim Torah means nonsensical vertlach people say on Purim. It’s not meant to be truthful.

    #1062230

    TJ
    Member

    “Vayavei es ohavav v’es Zeresh ishto.” “Vatomer lo Zeresh ishto v’chol ohavav….” “Vaysapeir Haman l’Zeresh ishto ul’chol ohavav eis kol asher karahu, vayom’ru lo chachamav v’Zeresh ishto….”

    Some observations:

    1.) The pesukim clearly distinguish between the wicked Haman’s loved ones and his wife.

    2.) They also distinguish between his wise advisers and her. Apparently, the cursed Zeresh was neither loved nor wise. Still, she was always there giving her two cents.

    3.) The wicked Haman sent for his friends before his wife. That shows who he preferred.

    4.) He followed his wife’s advice, and that led to his demise. This is an example of what Rav said (Bava Metzia, 59a): “Kol haholeich ba’atzas ishto (b’milei d’alma), nofeil b’gehinnom.”

    5.) For some reason, he consulted his wife first only after her proposal began to backfire.

    6.) Though his wife spoke up first when originally telling him what to do, she spoke up last when telling him that he was doomed because of her advice.

    7.) He didn’t listen to his wise men until it was too late (and even then he hadn’t asked for their opinion).

    8.) Maybe if Haman harasha would have asked the wise men for their opinions in the first place, instead of asking his buddies and his wife, he would have gotten better advice. As the Gemara in Nedarim states (40a): “Rabbi Shimon ben Elazar says: If youths advise you to build, and sages advise you to demolish, listen to the sages and don’t listen to the youths. For the construction of youths is really destructive, and the destruction advised by sages is really constructive.” In the wicked Haman’s case that is exactly what happened – he was destroyed by the gallows that he constructed on the advice of his friends.

    #1062231

    squeak
    Participant

    Jothar – 2 problems with your shtickel Toireh:

    1) Since we go bassar me’ikkara, the garbage was already on his head before she jumped

    2) The shaila was brought down how Haman could go to the Mishteh (party) if he was an Avel – even as an Onen (one whose dead is not yet buried) he would be prohibited from going to a simcha. The traditional answer is (as always) Mefarchesset. So clearly “Avel” is lav davka.

    ____________________________

    We say in Maoz Tsur (sang on Chanuka after lighting candles) “Roiv bonov v’kinyonov al ha’eitz toleesa”, which literally means “Most of [Haman’s] children and possessions were hanged/hung on the tree”. Chazal tell us that 10 of Haman’s sons were hanged, but he had many more than 10.

    The question is, why most of his children? Why not all of them? After all, they were all enemies of the Jews?

    The gemara informs us that Haman was an unusually tall man. I forget exactly how tall it says, but that’s not important to my point. Zeresh, however, the gemara says was “k’zeres”, like the pinky finger. OK, let’s say the gemara is exaggerating a little. Maybe she was as big as a thumb. That still makes her rather small.

    A different gemara talks about genetic inheritance. It says that if a father and mother are both tall, their children will grow tall. If a father and mother are both short, their children will be short. But if one is tall and the other is short, their children will be “beinonim” (literally, average). So the children of the giant Haman and the tiny Zeres (aka thumbelina) were doubtless “beinonim”.

    Now we can answer the original question with a famous gemara. We all know that Rosh Hashana is the Yom Hadin. If one is a complete Tzaddik, he is immediately inscribed in the Book of Life for a good year. If one is a complete Rasha, he is immediately inscribed in the other book. But for BEINONIM, the gemara says, TELUYIM (veomdim) AD ESER! That is we could only hang 10 of Haman’s sons.

    Happy Purim.

    #1062232

    Jothar
    Member

    Squeak, garbage goes basar tavar maneh- it’s zarak cheitz. As for Haman, it could be it was muttar for shalom malchus. Also, he was only a safek avel, since zeresh had no chezkas kashrus.

    #1062233

    chofetzchaim
    Member

    Squeak, I think Jothar missed one of the main points, the difference between Basar Meikara and Basar Tavar Mana. Here is the original vort as I heard it:

    #1062234

    chofetzchaim
    Member

    What do Atheists learn during Mussar Seder?

    Godless HaAdam!

    #1062235

    chofetzchaim
    Member

    And while we are in the sugya of Bava Kamma (the basar meikara post), if you will allow some Harry Potter Torah…

    [Harry]

    #1062236

    baal kishron
    Participant

    wow chofetz chaim i am blown away by your bekkius in hp i have heard that ppl read it like fifty times i guess i know now that it is true;)

    #1062237

    labochur
    Member

    Ha! Jothar, asdf,TJ,Chofetz Chaim, and everybody else, great ones! Keep them coming!

    #1062238

    Jothar
    Member

    Here is a shtickle I heard from a kollel man during my yeshiva days, trying to explain a point about learning:

    Kollel man: why does the torah begin with a gimmel?

    Me: It begins with a beis.

    Kollel man:- Oh, so that’s one teretz.

    #1062239

    Jothar
    Member

    Q- We have Parshas Zachar. but what about Parshas Nekeivah?

    A- We have one. It’s called Parshas Parah…

    #1062240

    Jothar
    Member

    I heard this one from a chavrusa, besheim a chashuvah rov in Brooklyn. it says in the Megilla that “vachamaso boarah vo”, ie that Achashveirosh’s mother-in-law was named boarah vo. Later it says “Vachamaso shachacha”, meaning that his mother-in-law was named Shachacha. How could Achashveirosh have 2 mothers-in-law? The teretz must be that vashti had 2 mothers. And in fact we see it says “Gam Vashti Hamalka asisa mishtei nashim”…

    #1062241

    posek hador
    Member

    Jothar– The ramban at the end of Keitzad haregel paskens basar tavar maneh. l`choirah your vort is a proof to rashi. The ketzos answers siman ??? that be’etzem theramban is maskim here that we go basar me’ikarah because of v’nahapach hu but by the garbage everybody is maskim tavar manah because the scarah of the gemarah for tavar manah is manah tvirah tavar– you broke a broken keli– so huh goofah garbage is a broken keli so we go tavar manah and the garbage did not land before she jumped.

    the nesivos siman ??? asks l’choirah reshaim are called dead even when they are alive so why do we have such a complicate svarah of basar meikarah… he answers the svarah of v’nahapach hu makes chapui rosh before aivel ayin shum brebi akivah aiger

    #1062242

    goody613
    Member

    in the haggadah we say we deal with a rashah by knocking out his tooth. haman was surely a rashah so why didn’t mordechai knock out his tooth? The answer is that when achashveirosh sent out 2 armies one with mordechai and one with haman. haman ran out of food so he begged mordechai for food and mordechai made haman a slave and we learned in shemos one of the ways to free an eved is knocking out his tooth so mordechai didn’t knock haman’s tooth out so that haman shouldn’t go free :0)

    #1062243

    goody613
    Member

    your’e not allowed to call up for an alliyah a father and son one after another so how could they call up haman and his 10 sons? the reason we cant call up a father and son is bec. of ayin hora butit was higherthan 50 amos and by chanukah we say a menorah can’t be higher then 20 amos bec. the eye can’t see it so there is no chashash of ayin hora.

    #1062244

    TJ
    Member

    Jothar wrote: “The teretz must be that vashti had 2 mothers. And in fact we see it says ‘Gam Vashti Hamalka asisa mishtei nashim'”

    My brother independently came up with a similar joke several years back. In that girsa, it was a dig at Vashti’s weight.

    Of course, the problem with this joke is the dikduk. “As’sa” means “she made” – “ne’es’sa” would be the right word for “she was made.”

    #1062245

    labochur
    Member

    posek hador, maneh tevirah tavar is basar meikara, no? Or maybe not, lefi the ramban it may not have been that way. i forget. could someone remind me?

    #1062246

    squeak
    Participant

    Jothar, once again I find myself arguing with your Purim Toireh. Achashveirosh actually had three MILs! If you keep going, we are introduced to “Keshoch, chamas hamelech achashveirosh”. She was the one who had rachmanus on Vashti, ex post facto.

    #1062247

    RoshYeshivah
    Member

    btw jothar- chafetz chaim the vort of oval vachfi roish is said beshem Reb chaim the son of brisker rav.

    #1062248

    baal kishron
    Participant

    nice one squeak

    #1062249

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    From a Rav who has been quoted here by name from his Mishloach Manos (translated from Hebrew):

    These items have been made with the intent of Kashrus, and even if something Assur fell in, it was “Aino MisKaven” and Mutar. Even if the Issur is the Rov, R’ Meir is Choshesh for the Miyut, and even according to the Rabbanan its Kavuah which is like Mechtza Al Mechtza, and since YOU can’t measure it, Min Hatorah it is Batul, especially because the Tzitz is Meratzah on food.

    You could always add more Issur, and Yessr K’Natul Dami. Besides, I got paid for the Hechsher, and Hefsed Merubah makes things Vadai Mutar Lechulai Almah. Not only that, but we Pasken “Ein Berarah” (It makes no difference lit.), and there is Kavod Habriyos involved which is docha even a lo sa’ase.

    One who is machmir should do so for others but be makel for himself and get drunk (as it states Yemini U’Semoli (my right & left)).

    All this is done with a clear head, and I only come on the signature.

    Harav Hagoan Nate Bar Nate.

    Only a Gaon could write Purim Torah like this.

    #1062250

    Jothar
    Member

    It is a minhag yadua on Purim that many a bachur will dress up as a chossid, get schnocked, and act like a total fehrd. Is there a mekor for this?

    After some searching, I found a mekor for this from the Megilla:

    ?? ????? ??? ????

    #1062251

    posek hador
    Member

    labochur

    the case of the gemarah someone threw a cli from a roof and someone else broke it BK17b

    we say potur in this case because of manah tvirah tavar but how to learn this and who will be potur is where the machlokes the ramban and rashi starts

    ramban says [ ramban bsof perek keitzad haregel bmilchemes hashem] because ein lo damim– has no value once the chafetz is in the air and potur is going on both of them the first guy is potur since he wasn’t mazik [hezek she’aino nikar ] and the second guy broke something worthless and manah tvirah tavar so he is potur. so basar tavar maneh — not broken until the end of the zrikah.

    Rashi learns potur is on the guy who breaks because basar m’ikarah the guy on the roof already broke it since with out the second guy it will break. hte second guy manah tvirah tavar — it already broke and we go mikarah

    the famous question on this sugya is lfi haramban if you throw somethjing off the roof and nobody breaks it what is the din

    #1062252

    Jothar
    Member

    The midrash mentions that there was once a fierce tribe of warriors known as the Meisim or Meitim, who would loudly proclaim their fierceness and fight vigorously. However, this peculiar band of warriors would just collapse and give up the fight at the end, allowing the enemy to run roughshod over them. Thus, they were known as “the meisim” or “the meitim”.

    Today the name has been Anglicized to “the Mets”.

    “Do not rely on nobles, on the son of Manning who provides no salvation”…

    #1062253

    torahtziva
    Member

    achashverosh had hearing problems: how do I know? HEre: Vayehi bemay achasverosh WHO? Achashverosh.

    #1062254

    Jothar
    Member

    When Zeresh suggested to Haman that he build a gallows 50 amos high, which shita of amah did she use? It couldn’t have been Rav avraham chaim naeh’s shita of almost 19 inches per amah, because 1. It’s not high enough, 2. How do you fit Haman and his 10 sons on one pole 79 feet high? it would be a bit crowded. So must be she suggested using the amah of the chazon ish, almost 24 inches. Is there any remez to this in the megilla? Yes. Zeresh said,???? ??. The gematria of ???? is 386. That happens to be the same gematria as ????? ???. So we know she suggested that he use the shiur of the Chazon Ish.. We know he followed her advice because it says ???? ???, and ????has the same gematria, 386.

    #1062255

    JayMatt19
    Participant

    why does it seam like most gematrias i am told about seem like Purim Torah. It is because we use words like ????? ???. Well, we’re off by 4 so lets add a ? before the ???? ???

    #1062256

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Jothar:

    You I talian?

    #1062257

    JayMatt,

    is that why you added a 19 to your sn? 🙂

    #1062258

    squeak
    Participant

    Mine was so far the most lomdish, yet I got no comments. I therefore direct everyone’s attention to my masterpiece above.

    #1062259

    There is a story I think from Chazal somewhere (if somone knows the source please post that there were 2 brothers who inherited neighboring fields, one had a large family and was rich and the other was single and poor. One night the single brother decided that his brother has more mouths to feed and therefore should get even more crops than he already does. He snuck out to the field in the middle of the night and moved some wheat from his pile to his brothers.

    His brother had the same idea. I have family and am rich, my brother is not as fortunate. At least let him have some extra crops. So he snuck out to the field and moved some wheat to his brother’s pile. This went on nightly for a long time until one night they both went at the same time and caught each other in the act. They both embraced each other. The place of that embrace became the makom hamikdosh.

    A purimdik take on that story which I once heard: Same 2 brothers, one single and poor, one wealthy and has family. One night the single brother decided why should my brother have family and wealth while I have nothing? He snuck out and stole some of his brother’s crops. The wealthy brother similarly thought that while he does have more crops than his brother he also has more mouths to feed, and his brother is getting more than he needs. He too goes out and steals some crops from his brothers pile. One night they end up catching each other in the act and they attack each other and kill each other. The place where that happened became the site where the Israeli Knesset would later be built.

    #1062260

    squeak,

    yours was great and was lomdish, but not quite as lomdish as the one posted by GAW in the name of a Rav HaMachshir. But winning the silver aint so bad!

    #1062262

    Jothar
    Member

    The daled meaning ?? is common in mishnaic hebrew and Aramaic, eg ?????? ?????? – ???? ??? .

    #1062264

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    charles:

    The problem with the one I posted is that its too lomdish for people to get the jokes 🙂

    #1062265

    GAW,

    I got them and appreciated them, I’m sure some others did too.

    #1062266

    Jothar
    Member

    No I’m not explaining these…????? ???? and those who don’t are probably better off…

    The gematria of ??? is 70. the gematria of ??? is 70. Chazal tell us based on this that ???? ??? ??? ?????…

    Purim does bring out the best in people- their lunch, their supper…

    We do have the serious shaila of shalach manos al menas lehachazir and seudah al menas lehachazir if you’re yotzei either…

    On other days we say ?? ?? ????, but on Purim we sing ?? ???? ?? to be meramez that it is the ???? ?? ???…

    ????? ??????? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ?????…

    #1062267

    myshadow
    Member

    wow everyone nice!!

    Squeak, very impressive!! Thanks for pointing your work out!

    #1062268

    moish01
    Member

    jothar do you sit and think these up all day? you’re a nut.

    #1062269

    posek hador
    Member

    gaw i choppd and chopped hana’ah

    jothar the last one is a little off color

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