Anybody got some gishmake peerim torah? PLEEEASE share it- I'd love to hear it!
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PURIM TORAH!!!!
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Posted 2 years ago #
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I thought I would wait until Adar, but this one isn't my own, so I'll put this one up early.
It says that Haman was evel vachafui rosh. the meforshim say that his daughter threw garbage on his head, and when she saw it was her own father she jumped out the window and killed herself. The question is, shouldn't evel come before chafui rosh, since his head was covered before she died? The answer given is that since by an object, basar meikara azlinan, as soon as she jumped out she was considered dead, even before the garbage landed on her father.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Half the "psakim" written in most of the threads here qualify as Purim Torah.
Posted 2 years ago # -
mod72: it's almost Rosh Chodesh.$
jphone: are you telling me that my posts are stupid??$Posted 2 years ago # -
jphone: care to explain that post of your??????
Posted 2 years ago # -
labochur: i dug this up for ya!!!
documented in Kids Speak 4:[i love the kids speak books]My name is Chaim. I am eleven. I live in Israel. At the beginning of the school year my father met my teacher on the street. At first he tried to cross to the other side because he didn't want to hear the usual teacher complaints about me that he was accustomed to hearing year after year, but the teacher spotted him and said, "Hello, how are you. I must tell you what a wonderful boy you have. He's progressing in his studies from day to day and his behavior is exceptional. You can be really proud of him."
My shocked father listened to what he said and literally burst with pride. He came home and gave me two resounding kisses, saying, "I have never had such nachas."
I, of course, was confused. On the one hand, I was happy with my whole heart to see my father so happy and proud of me. But on the other hand, I knew that it wasn't true. I asked myself, Why would my teacher lie for me? I thought that maybe he was trying to encourage me, but in any case, I still couldn't understand what was going on.
The next day I went to school and looked at the teacher, but he acted as if he hadn't praised me to my father the day before. I didn't understand his game, but just to be on the safe side and as a gesture of appreciation, I tried not to disturb him in class.
This went on several more times. Whether I behaved good or bad, my father would meet the teacher on the street and hear unimaginable praises sung about me. Then my father would return home beaming with happiness, pride and even prizes. The next day, the teacher would always act as if nothing happened. The whole thing was becoming increasingly uncomfortable and distinctly unpleasant for me. None the less, I thought I should behave better and even participate in class. My good behavior would usually last for about a week or so, after each of these encounters.
The mystery was solved on Purim. I arrived at my teacher's house with my father to bring him shalach manos (a Purim Gift Basket). I was wearing a mask on my face and you couldn't recognize me. The teacher greeted my father with a joyous cry of "Happy Purim! Please come in and drink something." Then he called his family. "Come meet the father of my best pupil. I've already run into him several times and, judging by his reaction, he doesn't believe me when I tell him that his son is so outstanding."
My father actually blushed with pride.
He sits at the back of the classroom yet still participates as if he were sitting right next to me." A warning bell began to ring inside my head. It wasn't true. I've sat in the front row since the beginning of the year because I disturbed the class. What was going on here? At that moment it occured to me that he must have mistaken my father for someone else's. As if to confirm my thoughts, the teacher cried "Come, Yosef, take off your mask so that everyone can see you."
Yosef?!! Suddenly I understood everything. My teacher had mixed up the hardest working kid in the class with the laziest. I recalled how much Yosef's father and mine looked alike. I started sweating under the mask and maybe there were even a few tears mixed in. My father though, was laughing, thinking that the teacher 'mixed up' my name as a Purim joke.
With one swift movement, the teacher removed the mask from my now very wet face. I saw how his expression rapidly changed to one of confusion. He looked at me and at my father, then back again at me and didn't know what to say. "What's going on here?" he said, "You're Yosef's father, aren’t' you?"
"Chaim, not Yosef," my father corrected him with a laugh, thinking that the teacher was continuing his Purim joke. I knew that if the teacher would explain what had become clear to him that moment, I was lost. I gave him a pleading look. Let him just not destroy my father's Purim joy. Later, whatever would be would be.
The teacher looked at my pleading face and said, "Oh, of course, Chaim. I must have drunk too much wine and I'm mixing up Mordechai and Haman," he said, and my father gave a hearty chuckle.
The scene ended somehow. My teacher shook my hand warmly, looked at me and said, as if suddenly remembering, "You know something?" he turned to my father, "Lately your son has really been making excellent progress."
That was the most thoughtful Purim in my life. The mystery was solved. The teacher had mistaken my father for Yosef's father and all the praises I got really belonged to Yosef. All of a sudden I realized how pleasant it was to be the best boy in class. I had never felt as good as I had in the previous weeks.
Now I can't wait to go back to school to thank my teacher for keeping our little secret - and to start to work hard so that next time he meets my father, the praises will really be meant for me - when I am the hardest working boy in the class.Posted 2 years ago # -
asdfghjkl, don't bother - he was being rude. (now with that in mind, reread it)
Posted 2 years ago # -
moish: u talkin abt jphone??? yup i knew he was sarcastic!!!
Posted 2 years ago # -
nice, asdfghjkl. i remember that one.
(hey did you just retype the whole thing? you're crazy.)
Posted 2 years ago # -
ames & moish: thanx!! ha no i did not type that all up!!! i had it in my old emails & copy & pasted it!!!!
ames: purim torah=d'var torahos on purim!!!Posted 2 years ago # -
ames: i think he meant "Purim Divrei Torah".$
Posted 2 years ago # -
Purim Torah means nonsensical vertlach people say on Purim. It's not meant to be truthful.
Posted 2 years ago # -
"Vayavei es ohavav v'es Zeresh ishto." "Vatomer lo Zeresh ishto v'chol ohavav...." "Vaysapeir Haman l'Zeresh ishto ul'chol ohavav eis kol asher karahu, vayom'ru lo chachamav v'Zeresh ishto...."
Some observations:
1.) The pesukim clearly distinguish between the wicked Haman's loved ones and his wife.
2.) They also distinguish between his wise advisers and her. Apparently, the cursed Zeresh was neither loved nor wise. Still, she was always there giving her two cents.
3.) The wicked Haman sent for his friends before his wife. That shows who he preferred.
4.) He followed his wife's advice, and that led to his demise. This is an example of what Rav said (Bava Metzia, 59a): "Kol haholeich ba'atzas ishto (b'milei d'alma), nofeil b'gehinnom."
5.) For some reason, he consulted his wife first only after her proposal began to backfire.
6.) Though his wife spoke up first when originally telling him what to do, she spoke up last when telling him that he was doomed because of her advice.
7.) He didn't listen to his wise men until it was too late (and even then he hadn't asked for their opinion).
8.) Maybe if Haman harasha would have asked the wise men for their opinions in the first place, instead of asking his buddies and his wife, he would have gotten better advice. As the Gemara in Nedarim states (40a): "Rabbi Shimon ben Elazar says: If youths advise you to build, and sages advise you to demolish, listen to the sages and don't listen to the youths. For the construction of youths is really destructive, and the destruction advised by sages is really constructive." In the wicked Haman's case that is exactly what happened - he was destroyed by the gallows that he constructed on the advice of his friends.Posted 2 years ago # -
Jothar - 2 problems with your shtickel Toireh:
1) Since we go bassar me'ikkara, the garbage was already on his head before she jumped
2) The shaila was brought down how Haman could go to the Mishteh (party) if he was an Avel - even as an Onen (one whose dead is not yet buried) he would be prohibited from going to a simcha. The traditional answer is (as always) Mefarchesset. So clearly "Avel" is lav davka.____________________________
We say in Maoz Tsur (sang on Chanuka after lighting candles) "Roiv bonov v'kinyonov al ha'eitz toleesa", which literally means "Most of [Haman's] children and possessions were hanged/hung on the tree". Chazal tell us that 10 of Haman's sons were hanged, but he had many more than 10.
The question is, why most of his children? Why not all of them? After all, they were all enemies of the Jews?
The gemara informs us that Haman was an unusually tall man. I forget exactly how tall it says, but that's not important to my point. Zeresh, however, the gemara says was "k'zeres", like the pinky finger. OK, let's say the gemara is exaggerating a little. Maybe she was as big as a thumb. That still makes her rather small.
A different gemara talks about genetic inheritance. It says that if a father and mother are both tall, their children will grow tall. If a father and mother are both short, their children will be short. But if one is tall and the other is short, their children will be "beinonim" (literally, average). So the children of the giant Haman and the tiny Zeres (aka thumbelina) were doubtless "beinonim".
Now we can answer the original question with a famous gemara. We all know that Rosh Hashana is the Yom Hadin. If one is a complete Tzaddik, he is immediately inscribed in the Book of Life for a good year. If one is a complete Rasha, he is immediately inscribed in the other book. But for BEINONIM, the gemara says, TELUYIM (veomdim) AD ESER! That is we could only hang 10 of Haman's sons.
Happy Purim.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Squeak, garbage goes basar tavar maneh- it's zarak cheitz. As for Haman, it could be it was muttar for shalom malchus. Also, he was only a safek avel, since zeresh had no chezkas kashrus.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Squeak, I think Jothar missed one of the main points, the difference between Basar Meikara and Basar Tavar Mana. Here is the original vort as I heard it:
“And Haman hastened home, mourning and with his head covered.” (Esther 6:12)
Haman was in mourning because his daughter had thrown herself out the window and died. She had thrown the garbage on the head of the man leading the horse thinking that it was Mordichai. When she realized that it was her father, Haman, she jumped to her death. It would seem that the posuk is out of order. Haman was in mourning for his daughter and had his head covered in garbage. Didn’t the head covering happen first? It would seem from the order of the posuk that his daughter had jumped before throwing the garbage.
This can be explained with the shita of tosfos in Baba Kama (17b). Tosfos says that if a vessel is thrown from a roof, it is considered broken as soon as it is thrown (basar ma’ikara) so if someone were to hit it mid-flight, the pitcher on the roof is chayav – not the batter on the ground. But, if the vessel is on the ground and you throw something at it, it is not considered broken until it is actually hit; so, if someone on the ground were to break the vessel before the falling object hits it, the guy on the ground is chayav.
We can now explain the story of Haman’s daughter. When she jumped, she was considered dead basar ma’ikara before she actually hit the ground; but, when she threw the garbage, Haman was not considered chafuy rosh until it actually hit him. We have to say that she realized that it was her father before the garbage actually hit him and that is when she jumped.
Posted 2 years ago # -
What do Atheists learn during Mussar Seder?
Godless HaAdam!
Posted 2 years ago # -
And while we are in the sugya of Bava Kamma (the basar meikara post), if you will allow some Harry Potter Torah...
There are four Avos Nezikin: Shor, Bor, Ma’aveh, and Hever. Shor is the Womping Willow, as it says: “At that very moment, something hit his side of the car with the force of a charging bull, sending [Harry] lurching sideways into Ron, just as an equally heavy blow hit the roof” (CoS chapter 5). Bor is Peter Pettigrew, as it says, “Harry looked down at the pitiful figure on the floor and nodded so that Pettigrew could see him”. Ma’aveh? Rav says it is Man and Shmuel says it is Tooth. They actually both agree that it is Fenrir Greyback. Rav is talking about when he is attacking as a man such as his attack on Bill, while Shmuel is talking about when he is attacking as a wolf such as his attack on the child. Hever is an inferius which has a koach acher me’urav bo, but, has no ruach chaim. Keren is Voldemort who started out as a Tom.
Sponsored by Aberforth Dumbledore in loving memory of his brother HaGaon, Hatzadik, HaGadol HaDor, Ohev Kol HaBriyos (muggles, giants, half-bloods, etc.), Rachok MiSheker, Baal Ov ViYidoni R’ Albus Percival Wulfric Brian ben Percival – Zchuso Yagen Aleninu Amen
Posted 2 years ago # -
wow chofetz chaim i am blown away by your bekkius in hp i have heard that ppl read it like fifty times i guess i know now that it is true;)
Posted 2 years ago # -
Ha! Jothar, asdf,TJ,Chofetz Chaim, and everybody else, great ones! Keep them coming!
Posted 2 years ago # -
Here is a shtickle I heard from a kollel man during my yeshiva days, trying to explain a point about learning:
Kollel man: why does the torah begin with a gimmel?
Me: It begins with a beis.
Kollel man:- Oh, so that's one teretz.Posted 2 years ago # -
Q- We have Parshas Zachar. but what about Parshas Nekeivah?
A- We have one. It's called Parshas Parah...Posted 2 years ago # -
I heard this one from a chavrusa, besheim a chashuvah rov in Brooklyn. it says in the Megilla that "vachamaso boarah vo", ie that Achashveirosh's mother-in-law was named boarah vo. Later it says "Vachamaso shachacha", meaning that his mother-in-law was named Shachacha. How could Achashveirosh have 2 mothers-in-law? The teretz must be that vashti had 2 mothers. And in fact we see it says "Gam Vashti Hamalka asisa mishtei nashim"...
Posted 2 years ago # -
Jothar-- The ramban at the end of Keitzad haregel paskens basar tavar maneh. l`choirah your vort is a proof to rashi. The ketzos answers siman רשע that be'etzem theramban is maskim here that we go basar me'ikarah because of v'nahapach hu but by the garbage everybody is maskim tavar manah because the scarah of the gemarah for tavar manah is manah tvirah tavar-- you broke a broken keli-- so huh goofah garbage is a broken keli so we go tavar manah and the garbage did not land before she jumped.
the nesivos siman המן asks l'choirah reshaim are called dead even when they are alive so why do we have such a complicate svarah of basar meikarah... he answers the svarah of v'nahapach hu makes chapui rosh before aivel ayin shum brebi akivah aigerPosted 2 years ago # -
in the haggadah we say we deal with a rashah by knocking out his tooth. haman was surely a rashah so why didn't mordechai knock out his tooth? The answer is that when achashveirosh sent out 2 armies one with mordechai and one with haman. haman ran out of food so he begged mordechai for food and mordechai made haman a slave and we learned in shemos one of the ways to free an eved is knocking out his tooth so mordechai didn't knock haman's tooth out so that haman shouldn't go free :0)
Posted 2 years ago # -
your'e not allowed to call up for an alliyah a father and son one after another so how could they call up haman and his 10 sons? the reason we cant call up a father and son is bec. of ayin hora butit was higherthan 50 amos and by chanukah we say a menorah can't be higher then 20 amos bec. the eye can't see it so there is no chashash of ayin hora.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Jothar wrote: "The teretz must be that vashti had 2 mothers. And in fact we see it says 'Gam Vashti Hamalka asisa mishtei nashim'"
My brother independently came up with a similar joke several years back. In that girsa, it was a dig at Vashti's weight.
Of course, the problem with this joke is the dikduk. "As'sa" means "she made" - "ne'es'sa" would be the right word for "she was made."
Posted 2 years ago # -
posek hador, maneh tevirah tavar is basar meikara, no? Or maybe not, lefi the ramban it may not have been that way. i forget. could someone remind me?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Jothar, once again I find myself arguing with your Purim Toireh. Achashveirosh actually had three MILs! If you keep going, we are introduced to "Keshoch, chamas hamelech achashveirosh". She was the one who had rachmanus on Vashti, ex post facto.
Posted 2 years ago # -
btw jothar- chafetz chaim the vort of oval vachfi roish is said beshem Reb chaim the son of brisker rav.
Posted 2 years ago # -
nice one squeak
Posted 2 years ago # -
From a Rav who has been quoted here by name from his Mishloach Manos (translated from Hebrew):
These items have been made with the intent of Kashrus, and even if something Assur fell in, it was "Aino MisKaven" and Mutar. Even if the Issur is the Rov, R' Meir is Choshesh for the Miyut, and even according to the Rabbanan its Kavuah which is like Mechtza Al Mechtza, and since YOU can't measure it, Min Hatorah it is Batul, especially because the Tzitz is Meratzah on food.
You could always add more Issur, and Yessr K'Natul Dami. Besides, I got paid for the Hechsher, and Hefsed Merubah makes things Vadai Mutar Lechulai Almah. Not only that, but we Pasken "Ein Berarah" (It makes no difference lit.), and there is Kavod Habriyos involved which is docha even a lo sa'ase.
One who is machmir should do so for others but be makel for himself and get drunk (as it states Yemini U'Semoli (my right & left)).
All this is done with a clear head, and I only come on the signature.Harav Hagoan Nate Bar Nate.
Only a Gaon could write Purim Torah like this.
Posted 2 years ago # -
It is a minhag yadua on Purim that many a bachur will dress up as a chossid, get schnocked, and act like a total fehrd. Is there a mekor for this?
After some searching, I found a mekor for this from the Megilla:
את הלבוש ואת הסוסPosted 2 years ago # -
labochur
the case of the gemarah someone threw a cli from a roof and someone else broke it BK17b
we say potur in this case because of manah tvirah tavar but how to learn this and who will be potur is where the machlokes the ramban and rashi starts
ramban says [ ramban bsof perek keitzad haregel bmilchemes hashem] because ein lo damim-- has no value once the chafetz is in the air and potur is going on both of them the first guy is potur since he wasn't mazik [hezek she'aino nikar ] and the second guy broke something worthless and manah tvirah tavar so he is potur. so basar tavar maneh -- not broken until the end of the zrikah.
Rashi learns potur is on the guy who breaks because basar m'ikarah the guy on the roof already broke it since with out the second guy it will break. hte second guy manah tvirah tavar --- it already broke and we go mikarahthe famous question on this sugya is lfi haramban if you throw somethjing off the roof and nobody breaks it what is the din
Posted 2 years ago # -
The midrash mentions that there was once a fierce tribe of warriors known as the Meisim or Meitim, who would loudly proclaim their fierceness and fight vigorously. However, this peculiar band of warriors would just collapse and give up the fight at the end, allowing the enemy to run roughshod over them. Thus, they were known as "the meisim" or "the meitim".
Today the name has been Anglicized to "the Mets".
"Do not rely on nobles, on the son of Manning who provides no salvation"...
Posted 2 years ago # -
achashverosh had hearing problems: how do I know? HEre: Vayehi bemay achasverosh WHO? Achashverosh.
Posted 2 years ago # -
When Zeresh suggested to Haman that he build a gallows 50 amos high, which shita of amah did she use? It couldn't have been Rav avraham chaim naeh's shita of almost 19 inches per amah, because 1. It's not high enough, 2. How do you fit Haman and his 10 sons on one pole 79 feet high? it would be a bit crowded. So must be she suggested using the amah of the chazon ish, almost 24 inches. Is there any remez to this in the megilla? Yes. Zeresh said,יעשו עץ. The gematria of יעשו is 386. That happens to be the same gematria as דחזון איש. So we know she suggested that he use the shiur of the Chazon Ish.. We know he followed her advice because it says ויעש העץ, and ויעשhas the same gematria, 386.
Posted 2 years ago # -
why does it seam like most gematrias i am told about seem like Purim Torah. It is because we use words like דחזון איש. Well, we're off by 4 so lets add a ד before the חזון איש
Posted 2 years ago # -
Jothar:
You I talian?
Posted 2 years ago # -
JayMatt,
is that why you added a 19 to your sn? :)Posted 2 years ago # -
Mine was so far the most lomdish, yet I got no comments. I therefore direct everyone's attention to my masterpiece above.
Posted 2 years ago # -
There is a story I think from Chazal somewhere (if somone knows the source please post that there were 2 brothers who inherited neighboring fields, one had a large family and was rich and the other was single and poor. One night the single brother decided that his brother has more mouths to feed and therefore should get even more crops than he already does. He snuck out to the field in the middle of the night and moved some wheat from his pile to his brothers.
His brother had the same idea. I have family and am rich, my brother is not as fortunate. At least let him have some extra crops. So he snuck out to the field and moved some wheat to his brother's pile. This went on nightly for a long time until one night they both went at the same time and caught each other in the act. They both embraced each other. The place of that embrace became the makom hamikdosh.
A purimdik take on that story which I once heard: Same 2 brothers, one single and poor, one wealthy and has family. One night the single brother decided why should my brother have family and wealth while I have nothing? He snuck out and stole some of his brother's crops. The wealthy brother similarly thought that while he does have more crops than his brother he also has more mouths to feed, and his brother is getting more than he needs. He too goes out and steals some crops from his brothers pile. One night they end up catching each other in the act and they attack each other and kill each other. The place where that happened became the site where the Israeli Knesset would later be built.
Posted 2 years ago # -
squeak,
yours was great and was lomdish, but not quite as lomdish as the one posted by GAW in the name of a Rav HaMachshir. But winning the silver aint so bad!Posted 2 years ago # -
The daled meaning של is common in mishnaic hebrew and Aramaic, eg בוצינא דנהורא - כגון אנא .
Posted 2 years ago # -
charles:
The problem with the one I posted is that its too lomdish for people to get the jokes :)
Posted 2 years ago # -
GAW,
I got them and appreciated them, I'm sure some others did too.Posted 2 years ago # -
No I'm not explaining these...המבין יבין and those who don't are probably better off...
The gematria of ייו is 70. the gematria of סוד is 70. Chazal tell us based on this that נכנס יין יצא סעודה...
Purim does bring out the best in people- their lunch, their supper...
We do have the serious shaila of shalach manos al menas lehachazir and seudah al menas lehachazir if you're yotzei either...
On other days we say כי בא מועד, but on Purim we sing בא מועד כי to be meramez that it is the מועד של קיא...
דברים היוצאים מן הפה נכנסים אל האשפה...
Posted 2 years ago # -
wow everyone nice!!
Squeak, very impressive!! Thanks for pointing your work out!
Posted 2 years ago # -
jothar do you sit and think these up all day? you're a nut.
Posted 2 years ago # -
gaw i choppd and chopped hana'ah
jothar the last one is a little off colorPosted 2 years ago #
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