Question about Glatt

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  • #614484
    star1135
    Member

    Hello all,

    #1049388
    Jewish Thinker
    Participant

    Glatt is the yiddish word for smooth. In Hebrew it’s chalak. In the Torah (Exodus 22;30) it says “You shall not eat meat from an animal torn (ie trefa) in the field”. Certain types of defects render an animal torn(trefa). The Shulchan Aruch (main codifer of Jewish law) lists the defects that make an animal a trefa. After an animal is shected (the term for the correct and complex way of killing an animal in Jewish law) they check the lungs to see if there is a puncture in them. If they see an adhension then it could possibly be kosher or possibly not. The Shulchan Aruch discusses these type of adhensions and most come out to be a problem and make the animal non-kosher (trefa) The Rema (Rav Moshe Isserlis, the commentary on the Shulchan Aruch which comments when Ashkenazic tradition differs from Sephardic [The Shulchan Aruch codifies the halacha with Sephardic tradion]) discusses different tests that can be done to lung adhensions to determine if they are kosher,accordingly making more animals kosher.

    The Sephardim who follow the Shulchan Aruch eat only glatt meat that is termed glatt Beit Yosef. There is an Ashkenazic tradition that when there is very small adhensions (up to two) that can easily be removed it is rendered glatt according to Ashkenazim. Glatt meat is where the lungs are very smooth so there are very little adhensions. Beit Yosef glatt is even stricter then that as stated previously. When it says glatt it usually means the Ashkenazic defention of glatt. Glatt is a common stringecy that many people follow. That does not mean non-glatt is non-kosher. It is completely good for Ashkenazim (I’m not an expert on this so please speak to a Orthodox Rabbi on more about glatt, I’m just giving the general backround.)

    #1049389
    Jewish Thinker
    Participant

    Let me just clarify so you don’t get confused:

    Most Stringent to Least Stringent:

    Beis Yosef Glatt- required for Sephardim; NO ADHENSIONS IN THE LUNG AT ALL

    Ashkenazic Glatt-stringecy for Ashkenazim; There are up to two easily removable adhensions (called “rir”)

    Non-glatt–only for Ashkenazim; Some adhensions that are tested to see if they are problematic

    #1049390
    oomis
    Participant

    Star, you are not being naive. You are learning. The meat that religiously observant people eat nowadays is Glatt kosher. Once upon a time very long ago, in the early to mid – 1900s, kosher butchers sold meat that may or may not have been considered glatt. It was to minimum standards kosher meat,to be sure, but as with all things in the religiously-observant world, it is always better to elevate ourselves in holiness in everything we do, including the food we eat, and with a new wave of immigration to these shores also came the adherence to using only glatt kosher meat.

    As was explained “glatt” means smooth(referring to the lungs), and though some scabs in the lungs of a cow, which often inhales small stones as the cow grazes and chews its cud) do not render it as a “treif” animal, since some scabs that form from the irritation to the lungs ARE going to render the animal treif, the meat of a questionable animal is never sold as glatt kosher, and therefore not used by reputable kosher butchers for sale to observant Jews. When there is no glatt label, it cannot be ascertained that the meat is acceptable even by minimal kosher standards.

    Today’s standards of kashrus are higher and virtually no frum person I know of would consider eating meat that is not certifiably glatt kosher. AND the butchers who call their non- glatt meat kosher are most likely not frum Jews altogether, or they would not be selling meat that is non-glatt to kosher consumers for the reasons stated above.

    I can understand the frustration at having to look for a greater expense with fewer options rather than buying your meat from Tomer, BUT you have made the difficult decision to be a Jew, and if your honest intent is to be kosher, the non-Glatt company is NOT the one from which to buy your meat. Unless the meat is under reliable Kashrus supervision, you cannot depend on Tomer, or anyone else regarding its kashrus.

    But this forum is not the best place for you to seek advice in this regard. Speak to the Rov who is involved in teaching you about the laws of Kashrus, and see what he advises you to do at this point, the early stages of your conversion process. I am making the assumption that the rabbi helping you on your spiritual journey is unquestionably a Torah-true scholar, not a Conservative or Reform practicioner. I wish you success.

    #1049393
    lesschumras
    Participant

    I’ve always wondered about the application of the term ” glatt” to chickens

    #1049394
    oomis
    Participant

    I’ve always wondered about the application of the term ” glatt” to chickens “

    I’ll go you one better. In a neighborhood near me, there is a store that calls itself the Glatt Farm. It primarily sells fruits and vegetables.

    Obviously it’s because many people associate the word “glatt” with “strictly kosher” more so than something that is not glatt. The fact that it only applies to cows (am I correct that sheep and goats cannot be classified as glatt and certainly chicken cannot?), makes it interesting to see the word used incorrectly.

    #1049395
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    am I correct that sheep and goats cannot be classified as glatt and certainly chicken cannot?

    Sort of. The kula of the Rema, allowing a certain type of adhesion, doesn’t apply. However, the lungs most definitely do need to be smooth (chickens are assumed to be so without checking).

    So as a matter of labeling, “glatt” is irrelevant, because if it’s kosher, it’s glatt. As a technical matter, lamb, veal, and fowl (I’ve never seen goat in the local grocery) is in fact glatt.

    #1049396
    Jewish Thinker
    Participant

    star1135, I would still ask an Orthodox Rabbi about the kashrut of Tomer’s meat. It may very well be kosher, just non-glatt. May G-d bless you.

    #1049397
    Participant

    Once upon a time very long ago, in the early to mid – 1900s, kosher butchers sold meat that may or may not have been considered glatt.

    Are you referring to Ashkenazi Europe where Glatt was a virtually unpracticed Chumrah (at least amongst the religious masses) or to America where there was so much corruption that the Ridbaz fled Chicago with his family on Shabbos because their lives were in danger.

    Today’s standards of kashrus are higher and virtually no frum person I know of would consider eating meat that is not certifiably glatt kosher.

    None of the Hashgachos I use would certify non-glatt meat but if a Shochet I trust would end up with non-glatt meat, I wouldn’t hesitate to eat it.

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