Resistance to antibiotics

Home Forums Health & Fitness Resistance to antibiotics

Viewing 28 posts - 1 through 28 (of 28 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1312810
    Joseph
    Participant

    What causes resistance to antibiotics where the drug previously was effective in treating the bacterial infection?

    #1312812
    Meno
    Participant

    I’m not a doctor, but I think the bacteria itself mutates to develop a resistance

    #1312817
    Joseph
    Participant

    Why did the antibiotics cause it to mutate?

    And how does the new mutation affect others who later develop the bacterial infection but hadn’t previously been treated with the antibiotics?

    #1312828
    Meno
    Participant

    Why did the antibiotics cause it to mutate?

    Evolution

    And how does the new mutation affect others who later develop the bacterial infection but hadn’t previously been treated with the antibiotics?

    They become infected with mutated bacteria

    #1312840
    Joseph
    Participant

    What can be done to avoid bacteria mutating to resist antibiotics?

    #1312844
    Meno
    Participant

    What can be done to avoid bacteria mutating to resist antibiotics?
    Use less antibiotics

    #1312848
    Meno
    Participant

    Sorry, I should rephrase that.

    Patients should not use less antibiotics.

    Doctors should prescribe less antibiotics.

    #1312851
    Joseph
    Participant

    Is the fault of bacteria mutating to resist antibiotics the result of physicians administering too much antibiotics to patients?

    #1312854
    Meno
    Participant

    Is the fault of bacteria mutating to resist antibiotics the result of physicians administering too much antibiotics to patients?

    Could be. It definitely doesn’t help.

    #1312856
    Joseph
    Participant

    If the cause is incorrect overuse, is there any reason to not place the fault on physicians who prescribe too much?

    #1312857
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “What causes resistance to antibiotics where the drug previously was effective in treating the bacterial infection?”

    Exactly as MEno said .
    Basically there are some mutations that allow Bacteria to withstand Abx. for example E coli can generally be killed by Beta LActam abx ( such as Cephlasporins ) However some have a a gene codign for an enzyme Beta-lactamase that destroys the antibiotic. These were likely always around but not in sufficent number to cause harm. However with the overuse of antibiotics these ESBL producing organisms Ie resitent ones have been selected for and now are more prevelant to the point where they can and do cause significant harm.
    Basically Survival of the fittest

    “What can be done to avoid bacteria mutating to resist antibiotics?

    Exactly as Meno said “USe less antibiotics” This is the responsibilty of both providers and patients. Patients oftne feel deprived when told cold was likely viral and didnt require antibiotics, and they waited (and paid!!!) for “nothing” IF you trust your doctor, and they say you dont need antibiotics dont insist on some.
    If you dont trust your doctor then get a new one.

    The other thing that can help is completing the ocurse of antibiotics. While this seems contradictory to the first piece of advice, it is believed that not completing a course might leave behind some microbes that arent fully eradicated and allow for these bacteria to proliferate

    #1312869
    bk613
    Participant

    What can be done to avoid bacteria mutating to resist antibiotics?
    The real answer is nothing. Bacterial resistance is a natural phenomenon that current science has no way of preventing. The other answers that others have listed are only ways to slow down the process.

    Why did the antibiotics cause it to mutate?
    Bacteria, like every organism, wants to survive so it allows for mutations to occur in its DNA. These changes may make pathways of certain antibiotics ineffective against the new form of bacteria

    #1312873
    bk613
    Participant

    “Sorry, I should rephrase that.

    Patients should not use less antibiotics.

    Doctors should prescribe less antibiotics.”

    Patients should stop insisting on getting antibiotics for viral infections and other conditions that antibiotics are useless against. Drs are trying to earn a living and unhappy ptx are not good for business. Not saying it’s right, it’s not, but it’s hard to place all the blame on Drs.

    #1312879
    Meno
    Participant

    Not saying it’s right, it’s not, but it’s hard to place all the blame on Drs.

    You’re right. My intention was not to place the blame on doctors.

    I was just trying to make it clear that patients shouldn’t refrain from taking what the doctor prescribed in an attempt to save the world from mutant bacteria.

    Though now that I’m thinking about it, a good doctor should be able to instill confidence into his patients. He should be able to convince a patient that antibiotics are unnecessary, rather than succumb to their request and prescribe irresponsibly.

    #1312884
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “a good doctor should be able to instill confidence into his patients”

    1) Today everybody with access to google or Web MD is an expert (This isnt just regarding medicine)
    2) convincing a patient takes time. Doctors dont have a lot of time.

    #1312921
    Meno
    Participant

    Today everybody with access to google or Web MD is an expert

    Oh don’t get me started on WebMD.

    Did you hear about my cocaine problem?

    #1312930
    mentsch1
    Participant

    In my own family I refuse to give antibiotics for viral infections.
    But patients insist on it
    Look up the percentages of sinus infections that are bacterial in cause, its a small percentage. Yet every patient “Thinks” you need antibiotics for it (or they read it on the internet, or their friends told them that) I caution and advise against it, but if after all my caution the patient insists I give the prescription because I don’t want to lose the business.
    I read an article years ago that certain countries actually have strict rules where a doctor can lose their license if they give antibiotics except for under explicit conditions, and that resistance was less of an issue in those countries. Whether that still applies,I don’t know.
    It’s the responsibility of both patient and doctor.
    And frankly, the government is dropping the ball. Because they should institute strict policies. If you research the number of deaths in the US per year from antibiotic resistance, you will see that resistance is a major public health hazard.

    #1313069
    Mammele
    Participant

    We also get anti-biotics indirectly from our drinking water and treated livestock. Good luck avoiding it.

    #1313126
    Health
    Participant

    Meno -“I’m not a doctor, but I think the bacteria itself mutates to develop a resistance”

    Not usually. Bacteria talk to each other. That is why they become resistant, when they once were not.

    #1313146
    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    Don’t forget about the prevalence of “antibacterials” in soaps and cleansers. Really bad idea.

    In addition to mutation of the drug target gene itself, or developing mechanisms to inactivate the drug, block it from binding its target, prevent its uptake or increase its efflux, resistance can be transferred from one strain to another by gene transfer- is that what you are referring to Health when you said that bacteria “talk” to each other?

    #1313183
    Joseph
    Participant

    Meno, what’s your expertise in this area?

    #1313184
    Joseph
    Participant

    mentsch1, I don’t understand how you can agree to harm your patients, just because they insist on being harmed, in order that you not lost business.

    #1313236
    Mammele
    Participant

    Joseph: I don’t think it’s always so black and white. And a lot of it is related to a doctor’s experience. The same type of infection that’s viral 90% of the the time is bacterial in 10% of cases. And not always does the doctor know for sure which one it is. (When a specific cancer treatment, to make an extreme comparison, is only successful 10% of the time, even the best of doctors will latch onto it in the absence of a better alternative, I believe.)

    So if a patient knows that last time his sinus infection, for example, was cleared with anti-biotics, why wouldn’t he want the same treatment for his new infection? And if the doctor isn’t 100% certain that the patient is wrong, why wouldn’t he cave and prescribe it?

    #1313233
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Raise your own livestock antibiotic free and you won’t have that problem.

    #1313245
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Joseph

    IT generally doesnt harm patients though it does harm society

    Mammale
    “So if a patient knows that last time his sinus infection, for example, was cleared with anti-biotics”

    the patient may very well be wrong, ho does he know that with antibiotics it will last a week and without it will last seen days
    Even a bacterial infection doesn’t necessarily reqire antibiotics and unlike Cancer bronchitis is unlikely to be fatal

    And if the doctor isn’t 100% certain that the patient is wrong, why wouldn’t he cave and prescribe it?”

    He shouldn’t though he might to keep the patient happy

    #1313269
    Joseph
    Participant

    It harms the patient the same way it harms society. The patient can develop a resistance to antibiotics. (Which he might also spread to society.)

    #1313333
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    The risk on the indivdual level is quite small.

    It is hard to argue that prescribing antibiotic that wasnt needed is harmful to the patient. Doing it over and over is harmful to society

    Though admittedly even on the patient level it is potentially harmful antibiotics re not without side effects, of course there is risk of anaphylaxis and potentially lethal complications like C diff for example, But thse are rare

    #1313370
    Health
    Participant

    Mammele -“So if a patient knows that last time his sinus infection, for example, was cleared with anti-biotics, why wouldn’t he want the same treatment for his new infection?”

    There are clear guidelines when you give antibiotics for a sinus infection. It’s Not a guessing game!

    “And if the doctor isn’t 100% certain that the patient is wrong, why wouldn’t he cave and prescribe it?”

    He might. It depends what is important to him/her. If doing the right thing is more important -then he/she will follow the guidelines. If not, he/she might just give the antibiotics!

Viewing 28 posts - 1 through 28 (of 28 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.