Shidduch crisis affecting bochurim

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  • #1536706

    workingbochur1995
    Participant

    What are symptoms of being a bochur who is affected by the shidduch crisis?

    #1536817

    Joseph
    Participant

    “What are symptoms of being a bochur who is affected by the shidduch crisis?”

    Having trouble finding multiple wives.

    [Ducking while DY fetches a bucket of water to dump on me.]

    #1537241

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    It’s weird to look for multiple wives as a bochur. Most people get married first and then start looking for a second wife later on.

    #1537278

    Phil
    Participant

    RebYidd,

    Joseph claims to be married to three women and have twenty-seven children but I find it hard to believe that he’s ever been married at all. His preposterous claims give insight into his psyche.

    #1537305

    The little I know
    Participant

    Multiple wives? It is challenging enough to manage with one. Why would someone think he could handle two?

    #1537330

    Workingbochur95
    Participant

    Please be serious and follow my initial question. Thank you

    #1537446

    Phil
    Participant

    WB,

    I’m not trying to start WW-III but the term “Shidduch Crisis” usually refers to eligible girls waiting by the phone hoping for a date, since most eligible bochurim don’t seem to have to. You’re twenty-three and have been dating for two years. If you are on a solid growth track that you’ve established for yourself and not being setup with girls who are compatible with your goals and personality, you may want to speak with your Rabbeim to determine the reason. They may advise you to modify your track, or your presentation or the shadchanim you are working with. Rest assured, there are plenty of wonderful girls from equally wonderful families who are looking for a solid, working bochur such as yourself!

    #1540058

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    Symptoms of bochur being affected by the shidduch crisis:
    – has a list of great girls pages long
    – phone is ringing off the hook with shidduch suggestions months before he comes home from learning in Israel
    – is being urged to go out at age 21 to close the age gap
    – has so many good suggestions, that he can limit the ones he dates to those who live within a 10-min car drive
    – has a hard time taking any suggestion seriously, because there is always another one on the list

    Somehow, I have a feeling you were not thinking of the above when you started this thread.
    Dating and finding one’s Bshert can be hard for both girl and boy, whether they have lots of dates or few dates. Defining it as a crisis does little good if it means that you panic and feel the situation is hopeless. It is hard, but this is the place you are meant to be right now, this is the challenge you are meant to overcome. You will find the right one, in the right time, the important thing is to continue growing and becoming the most you can be as you travel that road, no matter how short or long it is, whether it is smooth or bumpy.

    #1540348

    icemelter
    Participant

    Look, I don’t think there is any shidduch crisis going on. Most girls that are attractive appearance wise, will find someone they are interested in and get married. Personality aside. If they have a good personality it’s even easier. Let’s be honest, how many young girls who “look” good, have some big shot job, confident, independent, or all of the above, do you see single and waiting “for a phone call”?

    The metzius is that the only reason some of these girls stay single for a while is exactly due to the fact that they hold those attributes and positions and think too highly if themselves. But then again, most of these attractive “successful” girls will find a guy who makes a lot of money and get married. If anything, that’s the reason for the shidduch crisis. Many girls will pass over good guys because they want and know that they can score bigger money and live like the princess that they always wanted or are accustomed to from home.

    I don’t know many guys who are refusing good girls. For girls it’s either they demand a yeshiva bochur (talmid chochom)or monetary success or in many circumstances, both. Usually they will settle on one or the other though.

    So once again, NO shidduch crisis. It is self inflicted due to today’s societal demands and pressure. Girls are more independent and encouraged to stay that way, and if they have some “great” job or “career”, they will stay single until the day they find the perfect prince to their liking (if ever). Because why should they not find someone who also makes as much if not more? After all, marriage is a whole big competition isn’t it? Growing and building a family together is for the old generations.

    Then they wake up from their fantasy and oops they are over 30 and even settling for someone now is a little too late.
    Honestly, I would say the biggest obstacle right now is high demands jobwise. Obviously I am not advocating for those guys who choose to be bums and don’t understand why they can’t get a girl to marry them. That’s their own choice. But if a guy does work, has a steady income, proves that he is willing to keep working and not just rely on who knows what for income, then why should that be such an issue?
    It’s very simple, bochur and girl meet-interested in each other-guy works-girl works(even better in today’s high priced world)- they get married and grow together. Simple.

    #1540349

    icemelter
    Participant

    Winnie-the only scenario which a bochur will behave in that fashion you stated(rejecting freely since there are many options) is only due to the fact that at 21 they are probably not mature enough and don’t feel a need to settle right away. They will want to look at all options. The same goes for girls though. At young ages they feel they can get anyone they want and why settle for some shmoe who just has an average job. It’s rare to find young girls who are “attractive” getting married unless they have found someone perfect to their standards.

    It’s a shame that people only mature and know what to look for when they get older and then options are more limited. But that’s how it works. I’d say by age 26 and up is when girls start to be more open minded regarding a potential guy. Even then…

    #1540350

    whitecar
    Participant

    Im a guy and had such got one suggestion from a shadchan a month (and most declined) reason i was told by my side; after coming back from yeshiva in Israel at age 22 I went to work instead of Yeshiva. Right now though in a few days I’ll be married a year but it looked like I was going to have to wait until all the girls who were single for a long time were going to lower their standards.

    #1540445

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    LC, I don’t know what circles you run in, but your comment does not reflect the situations that I know, and I think you are being wrongly judgemental and maligning a whole generation of girls.
    When I was single and dating (many years ago, before the term shidduch crisis was coined), I knew many wonderful, good girls, who were attractive and had great personalities who had a hard time. For me, dating 5-6 boys a year was normal, and I think it was similar for many of my friends. Many weeks, sometimes even months, went by with no suggestions, no phone calls, lots of dead ends. It wasn’t because I had an unrealistic fantasy or thought too highly of myself, and I don’ think that was true of any of my single friends.

    I don’t know any girl who is holding out for someone with big bucks. If they are still young, then so is the boy, and who would expect a 23 yr old to already have a top paying job? If anything, the opposite is true, as has been said before on the CR in various threads. Sincere girls come home from seminary wanting to marry a good learner, top boy who will stay in kollel. In order to make their dreams work, they will go to college and/or get good jobs, so they can support their families while their husbands learn. Since it is far easier to be a top girl than a top boy, and there just aren’t enough top guys to go around. Which is why whitecar and I would venture to guess the OP had it/are having it hard, they don’t fit the bill of that top learner that the girls have been taught to want to marry. At some point, as the girls get older, and fewer of the guys are in long-term learning, they have to re-evaluate their priorities, and will give up on their seminary dreams, as reality changes the situation.

    #1540701

    Atl123
    Participant

    I think there’s a stigma against working bochrim, Which must be changed. There are plenty of working bochrim who learn everyday and have great middos, but girls won’t look at them because they’re not learning full time.
    On the other hand there are plenty of boys who are not cut out for learning full time, but they are scared to go to work because of “shidduchm”. So they stay in yeshiva/kollel (the coffee room……) for a bunch of years doing nothing .
    If girls, parents and shadchanim will only recognize that not everyone is cut out for learning full time. And there are many boys who are working who learn everyday and have great middos. There will be a lot more boys available. And a lot more shidduchm.

    #1540752

    unommin
    Participant

    When will the pendulum swing back to normalcy? Since when does having a plan, becoming a professional, learning and working, not working because it’s a plan-B but because it’s making the world a better place and supporting a family, .. when did this become a bad thing.

    The shiduch “Crisis” is a symptom of a different set of problems.

    #1541236

    whitecar
    Participant

    @atl123 you speak the truth. Its terrible the way their brainwashing girls and their parents that boys who are not in Yeshiva (in their 20s) are nothing but bad apples and should not be looked at unless u or ur daughter is having a really really hard time being suggested. Yes some girls are truly dedicated to marrying a learning boy, but how many are just asking for a learning just to avoid what they think is a “bad apple”?

    #1541248

    Joseph
    Participant

    Winnie: “Since it is far easier to be a top girl than a top boy, and there just aren’t enough top guys to go around.”

    Winnie, I think you hit the nail on the head with that sentence, particularly the first part of it.

    Perhaps that explains why girls hold out longer than boys before “settling”. (I’m just proposing a thought without claiming it is the correct explanation.)

    #1541310

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    Once upon a time, in the early-mid 20th century America, very few men wanted to sit and learn, and fewer women wanted to marry those type. After all, to the early immigrants, parnassa meant survival, not starving. There was no older generation to provide support, mostly, married women did not work.
    But now the pendulum has swung in the other direction. The default for the boys is to sit and learn, and the girls are taught/trained to want that for their futures, and instead of being scorned, the bnei Torah are highly valued. It has worked because there are parents who are willing to support and women who are willing to work and have opportunities that did not exist 2-3 generations back. If you think about it, it is amazing and proves the strength of Torah learning in our community – a bracha considering what was lost in the Holocaust.
    It also creates a new set of problems- financial stress, which will only grow as the learners’ children get married and don’t have parents to support them, and perhaps contributes to shidduch issues, for those bochurim who can’t/don’t want to learn full time, and for the top girls who outnumber the top learners. It also creates a class society- with the learning bochurm at the top, and the rest considered second-rate.
    Given time, and some forward thinking, I think the system can correct itself, pendulums don’t stay to one side forever- girls will be honest with themselves and find appropriate matches among the available bochurim. The external pressure to stay in learning no matter what will decrease as more options open simply because they are needed. There will still be the learners, who will be valued (the shevet Levi, so to speak), and those girls who really want to marry them, but the alternative choice will grow and as it grows, it will no longer be stigmatized. I don’t think the next generation will look like this one.

    #1541331

    Joseph
    Participant

    In Poland before the war you had the problem of wives who went to the movies Friday evening while her husband was home making Kiddush.

    #1541336

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Women are biologically inclined to be more selective.

    #1541559

    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    I think there’s a stigma against working bochrim, Which must be changed. There are plenty of working bochrim who learn everyday and have great middos, but girls won’t look at them because they’re not learning full time.

    Most people aren’t against someone who is working and erlich. They are just hard to come by.

    #1542228

    Atl123
    Participant

    I don’t think that’s true because I could think of 8 boys that are working and Erlich , off the top of my head.

    #1542336

    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    I am looking for someone who doesn’t have a smartphone, someone who is koveh itim for learning and enjoys it, someone who is growing constantly, someone who wants to send their kids to the mainstream BY schools…

    Haven’t found someone who fits this bill and is working.
    Maybe half half…but not fully working.

    #1542352

    Putin
    Participant

    Shopping613
    While you’ll go shopping…

    #1542700

    Atl123
    Participant

    Why is a smart phone with a filter a contradiction to being erlich??

    #1542936

    Meno
    Participant

    Why is a smart phone with a filter a contradiction to being erlich??

    Well if it blocks ads then it’s stealing

    #1543935

    workingbochur1995
    Participant

    What about the fact that there are many 23 year old bochurim that start as young as the girls but are not getting dates?

    #1543942

    Midwest2
    Participant

    Shopping – what do you mean when you say, “growing constantly?” I’ve begun seeing this word “grow” everywhere, and I’m not sure what people are using it for. At 72 I find that the only “growing” I seem to do is sideways 🙂

    #1543995

    Phil
    Participant

    WB,

    Have you spoken to your Rabbeim for advice and do the shadchanim you use really understand working bochurim? Also, while I’m sure you daven with a minyan and learn daily, do people know it? I’m not advocating doing so merely for show, but if your regular place is a small shteibel, you may consider frequenting a bigger place where you’re more visible. That way, people will see how solid you are and hopefully keep you in mind. May you find your match very soon!

    #1543976

    Phil
    Participant

    WB,

    As I posted earlier, if you are on a solid growth track that you’ve established for yourself and not being setup with girls who are compatible with your goals and personality, you may want to speak with your Rabbeim to determine the reason. They may advise you to modify your track, or your presentation or the shadchanim you are working with. Rest assured, there are plenty of wonderful girls from equally wonderful families who are looking for a solid, working bochur such as yourself!

    #1544023

    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    @putin Oh and I don’t mind someone who has done immature things in the past, like making interesting names in the CR at age 14.
    @atl123 It’s not, sorry. That’s my own personal preference. 🙂 I found mine very addicting, do not want it in my house, even if someone says they aren’t addicted. If they truly aren’t addicted they won’t mind not bringing it into the house.
    @midwest2 Someone constantly looking to be better, and not just in areas where it’s convenient. I want someone who doesn’t talk just about ideals, but ALSO has a plan to actually get there. I find many people have ideals in mind but don’t really want to get there, because being frum and erliche and middos and stuff is hard, it’s easier to not.

    #1544174

    whitecar
    Participant

    As someone who was a working bochur (married now) i was shoved under the rug. It really stung when I was asked by a friend who was in yeshiva “how many resume’s was I currently looking through” (answer was zero). I even called a big Shadchan in Lakewood if we can meet, he gave me a location. There were two other BMG bucherim there waiting. When he came he spoke to them each for a couple minutes. My turn spoke around 2 min and most of conversation was about how my older sister was doing (he made her shidduch) and what my younger sister who’s also in the parshah looking for.

    Something has to change. This is not OK

    #1544352

    Joseph
    Participant

    whitecar: “a couple minutes” and “2 min” are the same amount of time.

    #1544857

    whitecar
    Participant

    @joseph they each got around 6 min

    #1544858

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    What kind of work is “working”? I could understand someone not wanting to marry a lawyer, but something respectable such as an electrician or speech therapist should be seen as a positive.

    #1546285

    Atl123
    Participant

    RebYidd23 ,the discussion isn’t about what type of work. It’s about the whole idea of working bochrim and shidduchm.

    #1546972

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Atl123, the discussion isn’t about what the discussion is about.

    #1547029

    whitecar
    Participant

    @rebyidd23 we mean working as in makinf a living as opposed to being supported. Now I’m sure someone who is a Doctor or lawyer or someone who owns anwealthy buisness will probably be more attractive and thus may not be on the shorter end of the stick. However an average buchur doing say Amazon, or medical billing, or warehouses…. he is very likely to get totally ignored from shadchanim and people who may have good ideas. Its even tempting to try the “do it yourself” way (dont try this, will probably backfire).

    #1551809

    Atl123
    Participant

    I’m with WHITECAR on this

    #1552240

    whitecar
    Participant

    @atl123 thanks. Now what can we do?

    #1602373

    happyboy123
    Participant

    If we were to reomove the stigma of smoking boys the crisis would be over
    Its amazing how girls turn down such great boys top leaners
    Just because of smoking
    There were great Gidolim who smoked

    #1602411

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Would you consider a smoking girl?

    #1602404

    Joseph
    Participant

    The smoking boys are getting married, so that can’t be it.

    #1602586

    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    @happyboy123 It’s amazing how many girls care about marrying someone who values their health.
    Baruch Hashem.

    #1602705

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    The so-called “Shidduch Crisis” is a contrived “crisis’ that only serves to place more pressure on unmarried young men and women and make them feel like failures or devalues their decision to marry later in life so they can pursue an education and professional career before having children. When you see postings here in the CR and elsewhere about the “checklists’ some have for their beschert (he/she cannot use a smartphone, must be willing to live within 5 minute walking distance of my parents, must be able to demonstrate by DNA linkages to at least 3 recognized gadolim, will pay to fly my west-coast mishpacha to BP for the chasanah etc) then you sort of wonder why anyone bothers getting married these days. Lets drop the term “shidduch crisis” or at least close the CR to any new threads on this meshugaas.

    #1602694

    happyboy123
    Participant

    Shopping613 they more about their health over getting married

    #1602756

    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    You need to be a healthy human being in order to have the responsibility of marriage on your shoulders. You can’t just smoke all you want and die at 50 leaving behind a widow and 10 kids.

    #1602794

    happyboy123
    Participant

    If smoking is an addiction that can’t be overcome doesn’t mean he shouldn’t get married
    I’m not talking about like 10 packs a week
    Girls turn down boys for even one a day

    #1602859

    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    It’s VERY hard to overcome that addiction. One pack a day is too much too! It’s so dangerous.
    Also some girls hate the smell of smoke, it gets EVERYWHERE. All over the clothing and they stink for HOURSSSS.
    Ew.
    But mostly, I don’t want someone addicted to something so unhealthy.

    #1603086

    happyboy123
    Participant

    One pack a week (not day) can’t be that dangerous a heavy smoker is whats dangerous not a lite smoker. also why does she turn him down maybe if she would marry him she can get him to quit
    Women are blessed with bina Yisarah not for nothing
    It just doesn’t make sense that in a boys market a girl should turn down a great boy just for smoking
    There are a lot of other not healthy things out there
    And regarding the snell that’s something that over time she will get over she may even like it

    #1603135

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Most boys wouldn’t even consider girls who smoke at all.

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