Shidduch Segullah!

anonymisss:

You make an excellent point. There does seem to be a slightly higher percentage of boys going off the derech than girls although attempts to get hard numbers are understandable difficult. However the percentage difference seems to be slight. If there was some way to change that it, would help the numbers problem a bit. The age gap however is a gorilla of a problem, and as long as it stays the way it is we will continue having a terrible situation of approximately 10% of each girls high school graduating class never having a family.

B”H there does seem to be a trend towards boys being much more willing than ever before to date and marry girls their own age. This is certainly a very good beginning.

Tune in next week for another exciting episode of AZ’s “Shidduch Island”, where you will once again be mesmerized by today’s horrid situation for modern females in search of a mate being left at the alter all alone!

AZ will once again enthrall you with fictional tales and exciting solutions using the latest methods of fallacious mathematics that your algebra professor only wish he knew!

Available only on YWN. Don’t miss it! You won’t regret it. Keep your dial on YWN’s “Shidduch Island”!

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Joseph, be nice.

oomis, agree!

~a~

Joseph: I will ignore the personal attacks. Please clarify which of the following two facts you believe to be inaccurate.

Population growth between 3-4%

Average age gap between couples of apox. 3 yrs.

If you disagree please present a argument as to on what basis you feel the population growth based on class sizes is inaccurate. If you agree but still believe that this doesn’t create a numerical discrepancy on shidduch island please clarify.

SJSinNYC:

You asked why I discuss 100 boys for 150 girls. In terms of actual numbers here is the sitaution.

Every year aprox. 10% more girls enter shidduch island than boys. Lets take the last five yrs as a small sampling. Per year (based on class sizes) apox. 2,000 boys enter the shidduch parsha which multiplied by 5 yrs is 10,000 boys. During the same time period there were aprox. 2,200 girls per year entering the parsah for a total of 3,000 girls.

If over the last 5 yrs 85% of these boys have gotten married (to girls obviouly). And, even if we assume that every last one of the boys married a girl from that same five year period, the result would be 1,500 left and 2,500 girls left. If 90% percent of the boys have gotten married than the result would be 1,000 boys left and 2,000 girls.

SO while you are right that there are “only” 10% more girls per year than boys. That equals aprox 200 girls per year don’t have a shot, not at 190 and not at 35. When we multiply that by what has been happening for the last 10 years we have a terrible situation.

Baruch Hashem progress has been made towards encouraging more close in age shidduchim as a result of the recent ongoing discussions and public speeches on the issue.

AZ, just curious, where are these statistics coming from?

~a~

ames, a new crisis? I think that’s its own crisis already. Why add to it?

~a~

squeak, it would be befitting for someone like you to speak respectfully to others.

~a~

“Since men and women have been getting married, men have married younger women. It seems to be the natural system Hashem has set in the world. It has always worked for every civilization, in every generation, for thousands of years. Why is it all of a sudden the problem?” ames this is all so true! The past generations were all growing populations and none of them seemed to have this crisis before, even after polygamy wasnt practiced anymore, there were no shidduch crisis.

Squeak

I don’t know what you are basing your theory about non religous people going to schools classified as “yeshivish” due to the higher quality education. Even if you are right unless we assume they do not marry into the yeshivish community, they still contribute to the growth rate. As far as the grwoth rate is concerned ot makes no difference whether it is due to natrual growth or “Imigration”.

I would however dispute your contention that there is a wave of children entering the yeshiva system due to the quality of education. If you have any evidince for this I would love to hear it (really).

There are a number of other ways the growth rate has been estimated (granted each with it’s own flaws) such as counting numbers of siblings and extrapoliating from the chareidi growht rate in EY (estiamted at about 5% although it is partially due to immigration).

where is mox’s post?

Ames:

Danish:

The population explosion that has been experienced in recent years is far far greater than anything in recent history.

Here’s a simple question. Ask people that went to school in the 60’s and 70’s how many of their classmates had families with 10 children. It was almost unheard of. Nowadays especially in the right wing communities it is very commonplace.

What does G-D want is the question. There is no question that we need the leaders of our generation to guide and advise. Somehow, I don’t think having fewer children is the proper approach as that is pretty directly against HIS word.

As for encouraging more close in age shidduhim. That is very doable and effective, there should be no reason not to. Although some members of the CR seem very reluctant and don’t seem to get it, you clearly do.

if you want a segula visit the tips for davening thread

Tzippi:

In a different thread you write:

“AZ – you talk about supply and demand. Parents – why are you shortchanging your daughters?!? Don’t be so desperate. We’ve got to get our boys to shape up.”

Economics 101. That’s what so pathetic about the situation. The boys have the hammer and can get away with unreasonable shidduch demands (although not all of them take advantage). If we want to empower the girls, let’s even the playing field (numbers). Just watch how boys will “shape up” (your words not mine) when they don’t hold the cards. Unfortunately we are a ways off from that point.

Fair enough.

Without getting into the practicality of whether we will be successful in changing middos. At best, even if successful it will only shift the problem. At the end of the day 150 girls on the island 100 boys ……

If we change the boys middos then perhaps many more of the wonderful girls who may not possess all the superficial trappings will get married at the expense of of the rich pretty etc. At the end of the day, the only way to ensure ALL girls have a shot is to even out the numbers. Is that something you disagree with?

SJSinNYC: “IF”, is hasn’t happened yet, no reason to think it will. In addition, even if “he guys would shape up” (your words not mine) the crisis would not be alleviated even one IOTA simply because there are still not enough boys. Which part of the math is difficult?

so, where is god in this shidduch situation? just wondering… People here are making it sound as if He doesn’t exist.

~a~

Proud Tatty:

Your argument is based on saying that their are more girls looking for learning guys than available learning guys. what should follow is the girls girls looking for working guys should have a breeze.

Sorry to tell you it aint so. Try speaking to shaddchanim in the not so right ring crowd and get a sense for what’s going on. Clearly across all spectrums of orthodox jewry (other than chasidish) the girls are having a terrible time of it.

However at least we agree that crisis comes down to an inequity of numbers.

Anonymiss:

It wasn’t HE who told 23 year old boys to date 19 year old girls. If there’s one clear directive from HIM it that boys should be married at 18. (Not that I’m advocating that. Obviously for whatever reason, that is not done in non chasidic communities). Howver, let’s not blame HIM for a totally self imposed tragedy.

The question isn’t where was HE, but were are WE.

GoldieloXX:

This was my original post on page 4

Best segulah:

“Work to CLOSE THE AGE GAP by encouraging more close in age shiddchim. It is THE source of the problem. Not only would this be a segulah because “Kol Hamispalel bi’ad chaveiro vi’hu tzarich li’oso davar hu ne’na techila”, it’s is also the natural solution to the problem.

Is your question answered?

re benuri: do you mean tehillim 121?

AZ – I don’t know what your planet (or island) you are on, but it’s not reality. I’ve never heard of a single boy in my life who was ready to go out and didn’t because the “system didn’t allow it.”

Just because you think they are ready doesn’t mean they are.

And even if they are “ready”, there are other reasons why they are told by Gedolim to wait. One big reason is that if the boy is learning, his learning will not be the same once he gets married. So if he could get in another year or two of “worry free” learning, gedolim push it. I know someone who was red to a very Chashuv Shidduch before he was going out. He told them he’s not going out yet and he wanted to wait another year. The Shadchan pushed and said it’s a really good Shidduch and even though he wasn’t going out yet, he should make an exception. He asked a Shayloh to one of the Gedolei Hador and was told “there is no girl in the world that’s worth a year of learning” and under no circumstances could he come up with a heter for him to start going out earlier for a “better” girl. It is pure Bittul Torah.

In regards to your last question, I would be much more reluctant to go out with a 23 year old who doesn’t have a degree then a 19 year old – what was she doing the last 4 years. There’s a whole lot of older girls who have no degree and nothing to put on the table.

And just for the record, it’s not a 2 girls to 3 boys ratio. – Your numbers are immensely out of proportion.

And while the numbers may be a little off, that is not at all the #1 issue with the shidduch “crisis” nowadays. There are far bigger issues which are actually fixable.

You suggest that boys should go out earlier then they are. Good – go promote divorces.

You suggest that boys should go out earlier then they are. Good – increase the problem.

The problem with you is that you don’t merely state your pathetic opinion, but you hide behind the name of gedolim who would barf if they knew you quoted them the way you do. Then you try to give people guilt trips because they aren’t “listening” to the Rabonim and are causing people not to get married. I don’t doubt that you spoke to Gedolim about this. I’m sure you did. But you can convince anyone of anything if you present it right. It’s not hard to go into a gadols house say look at these numbers, should we tell people to bridge the age gap? The Gadol will say “Makes sense” and now you have their haskama. Why hasn’t a single Rav come out and say it themselves. The come out with a new proclomatuion every day. The Moetzes never came out with something like this. Nor did the Agudah. Nor Torah U’Mesorah. Don’t try to pull that their strategy is to have some shnook flood jewish forums with your trash.

Your eyes are closed to seeing anything other then what you want. There is no point in arguing this anymore. We have gone around in circles for 2 months now. The only reason I commented on your post is because I’m hoping that other people don’t see your filth and actually believe it. As for you, my friend, you are lost until you want to hear. When you do, just reread what everybody wrote to you.

I HEREBY REST MY CASE. I will post on this issue no more.

Mods – Can I suggest that this topic be closed as we are going around in circles?

Another problem with bridging the age gap is that the older a girl gets, generally the more educated/worldly she gets. So, she goes for her masters and starts to travel and becomes independant. Often, a regular yeshiva guy who has decided that is ready to get married after sitting in yeshiva is no longer right for her. She might still be very frum, but cannot relate to the yeshiva guys. But, its not like she can relate to the MO guys too. I know plenty of women in this exact predicament.

I’m doing what should have been done weeks ago, shutting this thread.

That means the thread AND DISCUSSION are closed. No starting a new thread and no somehow managing to turn another thread into this conversation

It is Over!

Has 39 been overruled? What kind of bump is this?

solution to the shidduch crisis: become better people, especially with relating to others. Pushing people who are not mature enough to get married is not a solution.