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The Hoax known as man-made "Global Warming"

(156 posts)
  1. Pashuteh Yid
    Modern Chareidi Zionist

    Joseph, your argument that the Rambam's advanced knowledge of the lunar interval indicates that the science of chazal was accurate has a big problem. The Rambam himself says that he got his cheshbon from the Greeks (Kiddush Hachodesh. 17,24). Furthermore the Rambam says there that any fact which is proven by science, even by non-Jews, carries as much halachic weight as the divrei neviim.

    Your argument the the eggs of kinim are not considered alive is also problematic, as what are they, plants? Also the Rambam and nosei keilim in Hilchos Shabbos don't say that they reproduce but just are not halachically alive, rather the term used is einan parin vravin. The same is used regarding a mouse that arises from dirt. (BTW how is that not a problem vis a vis mayseh breishis, if animals can pop out of dirt anytime?)

    Furthermore, in Pesachim 94b the Jewish sages said, "By day the sun passes beneath the firmament and at night above it." The sages of the nations maintained, "By day beneath the firmament and at night beneath the ground." Rebbe said, "Their opinion seems more correct than ours." (Translation from Rabbi Slifkin's sources page.) Chazal themselves admitted that they were wrong on science and the non-Jewish scientists were right. (Do you believe that the sun goes above the sky at night?)

    The Rambam says that there are these spheres in which all the heavenly bodies are embedded, and there is no space in between. This simply doesn't fit with what we know today. However, the greatness of the Rambam was that he understood that we continue to grow in science, and accept its proofs from wherever they come.

    Your citation that Chazal knew the world was round is also not a proof, because Tosfos in Avodah Zara says that the way Chazal knew it was round was that Alexander Mokdon the Greek went very high up above the Earth (I have no clue how) and saw it was a ball (Avodah Zara 41a). Chazal got this from the non-Jews.

    Now I am not saying evolution is a proven fact, as it makes untestable claims that would require millions of years to verify, the same as I am not convinced of global warming, man-made or otherwise. I say to be open-minded.

    But one thing I will say is that your claim that all the science of Chazal is true and that one who believes otherwise is going to gehennom is very hard to accept. When did this end? Clearly the Rambam's science was incorrect (check also his calculations of the relative sizes of the earth and moon and sun in Yesodei Hatorah 3,8. Rambam says Earth is 40 times bigger than Moon. We know the Earth's diameter is 8,000 miles, while moon's is 2,000 miles. Doesn't seem to work either in diameter or volume. Sun's diameter is 800,000 miles, while Rambam says sun is 170 times bigger than earth, which also doesn't quite work in diameter, and in volume would be far off. So by the time of the Rambam this was no longer true.

    Yet if you claim that it is true, and somehow the Rishonim and Acharonim down until today did know everything about science, then this is a verifiable claim. Let us simply give a test to any talmidei chachamim of your choice on known and testable facts in science. We can construct circuits and test on the voltages currents and transfer functions like college and grad students take. We can construct tests in biology on gene cloning and reading of electrophoresis gels and Western blotting, 3-D protein structure, etc.

    We can test in organic synthesis in chemistry or in quantitative analysis. We can also give the tests in English to Israeli Talmidei Chachamim who should know English since that is also a chochma. (Chazal knew 70 languages.) While you will probably claim this is demeaning, yet we are allowed to test neviiim. It would be a nes goluy, and a tremendous kiddush hashem that nobody in the whole world could possibly deny. It would demonstrate the greatness of those who study Torah.

    Sadly, while this would be great if achievable, we are all only mortals. Chochma is infinite, but human capacity is not. Even the greatest scientists only know their one small area of expertise, but little of other scientific subjects.

    Emes and anivus requires that we respect the knowledge of others, and not claim that we miraculously know it all. At any rate, this is easlily testable, as above.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  2. Joseph
    Sometimes A Bit Over The Right

    If there is anyone here who really believes they are a decendant of monkey, please speak up.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  3. 000646
    Member

    Joseph,

    Again you post a write up that is full of fallacies,

    there IS a treasure trove of transitional fossils of humans and other species.

    There had NEVER been any evidence found of humans interacting with even the smallest plant eating dinosaures (and there were plenty of them that would be more harmless then modern farm animals so they would have interacted with them just like they did with evrey other animal that lived around them)
    and just from these layers (of gnerations of animals living and dying) it is apparent that the world is much much older then 6000 years old,

    how would it be neccessary to (and were is the proof that hashem did create) the fossils of hundreds of thousands of species that never exsisted just to make the world fully grown?

    there are many other ways that are used to date things besides carbon dating such as varves, ice layers, stars thousands of light years away (things such as supernovas that we are just able to see today that couldnt be seen 5000 years ago because there light has just reached us from more then 6000 light years away) among many others

    and common ancestry is proven from way more then just the fossil evidence

    Posted 4 years ago #
  4. Joseph:
    "If there is anyone here who really believes they are a decendant of monkey, please speak up."

    I do. If you look at Homo sapiens sapiens today, you will see plenty of variety - Caucasians, Africans, Pygmies, Orientals, etc. And we, as a species, are only about 100,000 years old. Do you really think Adam and Eve possessed the chromosomal varieties necessary to bear these multicolored fruit? Obviously not. If so, then in 6 million years Australopithecus afarensis can becom Homo sapiens sapiens.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  5. sammygol
    Member

    Ignorance is bliss, especially if cloaked in misplaced frumkeit. What would happen to all this supposed Emunah Peshutah if G-d Himself would say - dodo, I have you all the evidence to see My great work, and you managed to constrict it to a box that you yourself know is way to small to contain it.

    Posted 4 years ago #

  6. Enough! Everyone is sick of this thread going in circles.

    Posted 4 years ago #

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