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1. Englishman
   Joseph

   Every now and then I see a reference to positions of someone referred to as "The Rav". Typically a person refers to his own Rosh Yeshiva as such. But normally others would have an idea who his R"Y is, as such they would know who he is referring to. As I read some online postings I noticed some people uses this term to refer to someone even though others didn't know who they are referring to. So I thought perhaps they are referring to the Brisker Rov, Reb Velvel, who was universally known simply as "The Rov" while he was still the Rov in Brisk (as his father was known before him) and was continually known as such when he moved to Eretz Yisroel. I thought perhaps "The Rav" was an anglicized rendering of the The Rov.

   But I saw positions attributed to "The Rav" that clearly could not be coming from The Rov. So after googling a bit I realized they were referring to Rav Yoshe Ber Soloveitchik of America, a nephew of The Rov. Apparently his students titled him as his illustrious uncle, in recognition of his Brisk heritage. It seems to me at least that this breeds confusion. Should not he be referred to with a differential than as his Uncle was? (I believe the subsequent Brisker Rov's are also known as The Rov.)

   Posted 1 year ago #

2. DaasYochid
   a singular mind

   (I believe the subsequent Brisker Rov's are also known as The Rov.)

   Not AFAIK; "The Rov" is reserved for R' Velvel.

   As far as use of the term "The Rav" for Rabbi J.B. Soloveitchik of America, the "A" instead of the "O" is a giveaway.

   Posted 1 year ago #

3. apushatayid
   Member

   In my shul, the rav is also referred to as "The Rav". :)

   Posted 1 year ago #

4. Pac / Man
   Joseph

   DY: The pronounciation they use is the same, so it may be more of an issue when verbalized (or written in Hebrew.)

   Posted 1 year ago #

5. HaLeiVi
   Plays the aeolian harp by air

   There are four people with the name Rav: The Amora Rav, the Baal Hatanya (De Rahv), the Brisker Rov (De Rov or Ghuv), and Ren Yoshe Ber (the Rav). The latter is differenciated from the Baal Hatanya by the fact that one uses the American 'a' as in 'are' while the other uses 'a' as in 'Mamish'.

   Posted 1 year ago #

6. jewish unity
   I just blew in from the Windy City!!

   Just saying, but you are one the rare people I've come across who didn't know who "The Rav" refers to. He was one of few Gedolim who covered all spectrums of Yiddishkeit; a really incredible thing.

   Posted 1 year ago #

7. ItcheSrulik
   Formerly college sheigetz. Now ger.

   Most Americans refer to R' Velvel as "the Brisker rov" (well, most americans refer to R' Velvel as "who?" but we're both talking about a particular segment of American Jewry) so it doesn't really breed much confusion here.

   Posted 1 year ago #

8. YW Moderator-42
   Life, The Coffee Room, and Subtitles.

   Just to add some more confusion, The RO"V is R' Ovadia Bartenura.

   I have always heard R' Velvel referred to as "The Brisker Rov" and R' Y. B. Soleveitchik as "The Rav".

   The real confusion is when people refer to "The Rosh Yeshiva"

   Posted 1 year ago #

9. Pac-Man
   Joseph

   Like Daas Yochid said, "The Rov" is how Reb Velvel was always known.

   Posted 1 year ago #

10. charliehall
    Member

    Here in America, there was only one "The Rav". It was a testimony to his stature. I don't know about elsewhere; I know that the Religious Zionists in Israel follow neither his halachic rulings nor his hashkafah unless they learned in America.

    Posted 1 year ago #

11. quark2
    Member

    Thats interesting who do the religious zionists in Israel follow? Also i think his son in law and talmud muvhak Rabbi Lichtenstien (don't know his first name) has a large yeshivah in Israel. Do the Israelis who learned in that yeshivah also not follow his halachah and hashkafah? Just curious

    Posted 1 year ago #

12. g73
    Member

    quark2 - religious zionists in Israel are typically referring to HaRav Avraham Yitzchak Hacohen Kook when they talk about "The Rav".
    HaRav Aharon Lichtenstein was the Rosh Yeshiva of Yeshivat Har Etzion (now retired, one of his sons is now Rosh Yeshiva) and is recognized as a Gadol, but his style is more similar to his father-in-law (straight Lithuanian approach) than Rav Kook's (which adds a more mystical, almost chasidic outlook).

    Posted 1 year ago #

13. Ralphie
    Member

    In our house, my wife is "The Rav". (That doesn't make me a Rebbetzin, mind you.)

    Posted 1 year ago #

14. charliehall
    Member

    "who do the religious zionists in Israel follow"

    Mostly the students of Rav Kook and his son.

    g73 is correct regarding Rav Lichtenstein; he is a Gedol with many students but there are far more followers of Rav Kook in Eretz Yisrael.

    Posted 1 year ago #

15. Joseph / bezalel
    Blocked

    I have always heard R' Velvel referred to as "The Brisker Rov" and R' Y. B. Soleveitchik as "The Rav".

    R' Velvel is referred to as "The Brisker Rov" but generally not by his talmidim, they would refer to him as "The Rov" (this wasn't a unique title for R' Velvel). To add to the confusion R' Yehoshua Leib Diskin was also referred to as "The Brisker Rav".

    Posted 1 year ago #

16. ItcheSrulik
    Formerly college sheigetz. Now ger.

    For even more confusion, some of Rav Soloveichik's talmidim refer to him as "Reb Yoshe Ber." In the rest of the olam hatorah "Reb Yoshe Ber" is The Rav's great-grandfather the Beis Haleivi.

    Posted 1 year ago #

17. 600 Kilo Bear
    Otisville-Creedmoore Roov with a Big White Furry Coat

    The Baal haTanya is not referred to as the Rav/Rov except when people speak of "Shulchan Oruch haRov." We in Chabad refer to him as "the/der Alter Rebbe" or "Admou"r haZaken" and everyone else refers to him as "the Baal haTanya."

    Posted 1 year ago #

18. 600 Kilo Bear
    Otisville-Creedmoore Roov with a Big White Furry Coat

    Then, there are those who are referred to as the Rav only after shkia :))))!

    Posted 1 year ago #

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