Using Baby name Sivan help

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  • #1379597

    Skyz
    Participant

    My wife would like to name our baby girl Sivan. Is that a real name and does anyone know the exact meaning of it? I read somewhere it means thorn is that true

    #1379626

    Please start using punctuation and complete sentences. This is not the first or second time you have been asked. It is very difficult to read your posts.

    #1379650

    Skyz
    Participant

    Bold text is generally written by the moderators. The comment in the previous posted was written by a moderator and was addressing what 770chabad wrote. Sorry for the confusion

    #1379665

    Joseph
    Participant

    Skyz, the first comment after your comment wasn’t written by 770Chabad. It was written by a mod TO 770C. The mod (confusingly to anyone not a regular here) edited out 770Cs original comment and replaced it with his comment to 770C.

    #1379670

    Skyz
    Participant

    Thank you for your explanation! Does anyone have any answers regarding the name ‘Sivan’?

    #1379675

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    It’s not a common name. I’ve never heard of it being used as a person’s name. I would strongly advise not using it and burdening your child with a name which they very possibly will resent.

    #1379674

    Joseph
    Participant

    Why not name Tishrei instead of Sivan?

    #1379680

    What I said before. Don’t remember exact wording . But what I said is that usually Israelis give the name not stam anyone else. And there are people with that name. Don’t remember what else I write before my comment got replaced .

    #1379703

    yytz
    Participant

    I heard of a somewhat traditional Sephardic girl with that name. It’s possible the name is mainly used among non-religious Israelis. Not sure how popular of a name it is. It is said to mean “season” and is the Jewish month in which the holiday of Shavuos, which commemorates the giving of the Torah on Mount Sinai, is celebrated.

    #1379700

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    skyz: Asking a Rav is your best option.

    #1379718

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Sivan is a beautiful name! 🙂

    I’ve met a couple of young ladies named Sivan, at least one of which was born during the month of Sivan. Ever since meeting her, I find myself thinking of her every Sivan.

    #1379727

    Joseph
    Participant

    Do you know any Elul or any Shvat?

    #1379731

    Shmiras Haloshon
    Participant

    Sivan is quite a common name in Eretz Yisroel. In America, it’s pretty much unheard of.

    #1379736

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Joseph: While I don’t know if your question was intended for someone in particular, and/or everyone, I shall respond to you.

    No, I have not yet met an Elul, or a Shvat.

    However, I’m pretty sure that I’ve met a Nisan.

    I’ve also met an Av[i], whose given name is likely “Avraham.” So, I don’t think that counts, but still.

    How about you? Have you met anyone who shares a name with a Jewish month?

    Thanks 🙂

    #1379741

    Joseph
    Participant

    Nitzan, Nadav, Rotem, Rani, and Oren are also common Israeli names.

    #1379755

    golfer
    Participant

    Sivan is a pretty girl’s name referring to a month in late spring. I guess that would make it similar to the name June. And just like we don’t name our kids November or March, we don’t name them Elul or Tishrei, though Nissan is a commonly accepted boys’ name. You better speak to your Rav, as some are not comfortable with using newfangled modern innovative names that have no Mesorah, and Sivan is not a name that’s been around for long. Many feel that the name has an effect on the neshama of the person so you want to be sure you’re making a good choice.

    #1379760

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    LB: I believe there is a name Nissim (as in R’ Nissim Hagaon), not Nisan. The name Avi (generally a short name for Avrohom or Avinoam) has nothing to do with the month of Av. Personally, I have never heard of the name Sivan, which is why I suggested the OP talk to a Rav. So in answer to your question above….I do not know anyone named for a “jewish” month….even though those names are actually a result of Galus Bavel and came up to EY by those who returned from Bavel.

    #1379772

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    iacisrmma: Is it more appropriate to name your daughter “Batsheva” over “Sivan”?

    #1379771

    american_yerushalmi
    Participant

    I would like to add to what golfer posted. In all the decades I’ve lived in E.Y., I’ve never met a frum person named Sivan, although seculars seem to use it. Rav Chaim Kanievsky’s opinion is that very many “Israeli names” are not names at all; he has told some ba’alei teshuva to “take on” a Jewish name. Without asking Reb Chaim, I couldn’t tell you for sure that Sivan is one of those “non-name” names. I understand that he has told people with names like “Oren” and “Almog” to take a “real” name. If you are concerned about Reb Chaim’s opinion, maybe you should send someone in to ask him about it.

    #1379779

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    iacisrmma: The child that I’m pretty sure is named Nisan was named Nisan because his parents wanted to nickname him “Nes” for miracle.

    I have met a Nissim too.

    Thank you for your info ☺

    #1379784

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    LB: Since Batsheva was Dovid Hamelechs wife and Shlomo Hamelechs mother……I would say yes, it is more appropriate.

    #1379799

    Joseph
    Participant

    A few Shira’s changed their name after Rav Chaim told them to, being Shira isn’t a real name per Rav Chaim.

    #1379802

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    What about naming a child Batshmoneh or Benshesh?

    I see what you’re saying, since the name Batsheva is from the Torah.

    I wonder if anyone, who isn’t a bat sheva, has the name Batsheva. As far as I know, I’ve never met a Batsheva.

    So, people ask a rav about what to name their children? I didn’t realize that people ask a rav about a baby’s name in such a case. I thought that people went to a rav in naming situations where multiple parties want a particular name, and they need help coming to an agreement

    Thanks again iacisrmma ☺

    #1379814

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Sivan sounds like a boy’s name from Romania.

    #1379815

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    LB: I have 2 friends who each named their seventh child (girls) Batsheva. Probably the most famous one of this generation was Reb. Batsheva Kanievsky A”H.

    We generally stay away from creating names (as you asked above Batshmoneh or Benshesh).

    A Rav can be approached with any question you have in life. Naming a child is a significant event and the advice of a rov is always welcome.

    My wife and I never discussed possible names until she was in labor. We had situations where a close relative was niftar right before she gave birth. All of our children were named as a zechus for a deceased relative.

    #1379826

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    I knew a Secular Jew named Sivan. She explained that her parents wanted to name her after a relative called Ziva, but since that name when written with the letter Ves has a negative medical meaning, they chose Sivan since it sounded similar.
    I’ve also met a Nissan, a girl born during that month, and a boy named Aviv. Aviva, on the other hand, is fairly common among frum Jews

    #1379836

    Skyz
    Participant

    Thank you everyone for your opinions! Since she mentioned the name we have seen it around a bit. (noticed a member of mishpacha staff has that name).
    Saw on a baby website that :
    “Biblical Meaning:
    The name Sivan is a Biblical baby name. In Biblical the meaning of the name Sivan is: A bush or thorn.”
    So now we are hesitate to use it. I will ask my rabbi though I don’t want to use a name that may be too different..

    #1379837

    besalel
    Participant

    Like in English, the Hebrew months are sometimes named after Greek gods and other forms of avoda Zara. Some months are not. For example marcheshvon means eighth month. Sivan is a form of the word siman or sign/signal. It’s not a jewish name but then again neither is gitty. At some point Jews first started using it and some later point it received wide acceptance.

    #1379838

    besalel
    Participant

    One more point: the Kabbalists recommend against using a masculine form for a girl name or a feminine form for a boys name so Sivan for a girl is out. I am not sure how the Kabbalists explain the boy name yona {or simcha which has gained popular usage}.

    #1379845

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    WTP: While I have heard of the girls name Aviva, I have not heard of Aviv. Those names though are not relate to the chodesh named Av. Aviv either means springtime (Shemos 2:15) or to ripen. (Vayika 2:14).

    As for the name Nissan….I stand corrected from my post above.

    #1379847

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    How about a name like *adar alef* or *pesach s sheni*

    #1379848

    lesschumras
    Participant

    I find these Yiddish-centric criticisms amusing. What is particularly Jewish about Beryl, Muttle, Shmeel, Gittel, Heshy, Elka, etc ? You can not find them anywhere in Tanach and did not exist before the Middle Ages. I can picture Rashi in 1100 saying what kind of name for a Jewish girl is Shprintzer?

    #1379859

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    skyz: I don’t know what website you looked out, but I am not sure what they mean by “The name Sivan is a Biblical baby name. ” The word Sivan does not appear in the Torah but does appear in Megillas Esther. How then is it a “biblical baby name”?

    #1379943

    golfer
    Participant

    Skyz, asking your rabbi is a great idea.
    You can’t believe everything (or most of) the information you find on the internet.
    A case in point:
    – the erroneous information you received on “a baby website”.
    If you accept that the Bible refers to Torah, Nevi’im and Kesuvim, or Tana”ch, then this is incorrect. (There are other books that non-Jews refer to as bible but those books are of no interest or concern when naming a baby with a holy Neshama.)
    The word Sivan appears in Megillas Esther referring to a month in the calendar.
    There is no connection between Sivan and bush or thorn.
    (I’m trying to guess what word beginning with an S they might have confused with Sivan. Maybe “sneh”?)

    #1379977

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    lesschumras: You wrote “I find these Yiddish-centric criticisms amusing.” I looked at the first 20 or so posts and I don’t see anything even close to a Yiddish name being mentioned let alone them being criticized.

    #1379978

    Skyz
    Participant

    Thanks Golfer your post was extremely informative! And thank you everyone else.
    @takes22tango you have some awesome ideas 😉 I will ask my wife if she likes your ideas.

    #1379983

    jdb
    Participant

    I know plenty of women named Sivan and Aviv. They aren’t dati, but these are common names on Israel. If you are in doubt, speak with a Rav. Especially if your spouse likes the name.

    There are gedolim who are into biblical names, and those who are more open to new names. Plenty of common Jewish and especially yiddish names were once new. And lots of people, particulalry the EY crowd are bringing back old names from Tanach that we have lost.

    Most importantly, mazal tov and enjoy the baby!

    #1380028

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    Many kids are not happy having a name that stands out too much- so even if a name is popular in one culture/society (say secular Israeli) but is not popular in the society that she will grow up in, it could be a burden to her. I know kids from American families growing up in Israeli who feel uncomfortable with the names their parents gave them, since although those names are perfectly normal in the US, in the Israeli society they are growing up in they are not used- like Yiddish names, or names that have different connotations in modern Hebrew, or sound like Hebrew words that are not appropriate for names. Sivan could be the same sort of name for your baby if she is not growing up in Israeli secular society.

    #1380065

    Skyz
    Participant

    Winniethepooh. Thanks for your post.
    If you would here the name somewhere would it straight away cross your mind as being different? It may not be a common name but I’m not sure if it is the type of name a kid would be uncomfortable with.

    #1380072

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    Yes, I would say “what sort of name is that”? Would your child feel uncomfortable? That question cannot be answered. I know people with “mainstream” names and they are uncomfortable with either their name or initials…for example Binyomin Shmuel or Binyomin Moshe.

    Of course there is the Country Yossi song “A boy named Zlata”.

    #1380119

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    The day zlata will meet sivan. Mazel to asachh nachas.

    #1380121

    Joseph
    Participant

    Winnie, frum native Yerushalami and other Eretz Yisroel Yidden commonly use Yiddish names.

    #1380143

    Mammele
    Participant

    LS: just because you say “Shmuel” and not Shmiel (or as you wrote Shmeel, which I find derogatory) doesn’t make it a Yiddish name. Remember I Say Tomato… You need to be a bit more open-minded.

    And sorry, most Yiddish names are a good couple of hundred years old, and since we don’t believe we descended from monkeys but are proud of our Frum ancestors, those names are badges of honor.

    Yes I realize at some point those names were revolutionary. It doesn’t change the fact that I’m proud of my Yiddish name, and secular Israelis use such names as Terech and Nimrod which I wouldn’t have been proud of (even if I were male).

    #1380150

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    Joseph, maybe among the Yiddish speaking chasidim, they use Yiddish names. But Litvish chareidim do not. If they name after someone with a Yiddish name, they change it to the Hebrew equivalent (eg Faiga becomes Tzipora, Gittel, Tova). I am speaking from my experience- from hearing the names in the playground, seeing the names on class lists, knowing girls who if they do have a Yiddish name (because they have American parents), hide them, change them, use only a middle/first name instead.

    Back to the OP, most Americans who hear Sivan would think, why would someone name their kid after a month? If it was just a made up name with no other meaning, I think it would be less likely that the kid would feel uncomfortable.

    #1380158

    Joseph
    Participant

    Winnie, the Litvish Yerushalamis, for example, i.e. from the talmidei haGra, use Yiddish names.

    #1380179

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    jdb
    “There are gedolim who are into biblical names, ”

    Like who? Please don’t say R’ Chaim Kanievsky since he doesn’t have a biblical name

    WTP
    “But Litvish chareidim do not”
    This has not been my experience. and I am not in Yerushalyim

    #1380303

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “Like in English, the Hebrew months are sometimes named after Greek gods ”

    Not Greek, but Babylonian. The Yerushalmi in R”H says that we brought up the names after Bavel thus the only Seforim that have the current Hebrew Months names were written after the churban Bayis rishon (eg Esther, Ezra/Nechemia)
    There are some names for months in Melachim Chodesh ziv (Iyar), Bul (cheshvan) Yerach haEisanim (Tishrei) but these names arent in current use.

    The names of the Babylonian months were:
    Nisanu, Aru, Simanu, Dumuzu, Abu, Ululu, Tisritum, Samna, Kislimu, Tebetum, Sabatu, Addaru.
    It is easy to see how most of our Hebrew months’ names derive from these.
    Some are from an Avodah Zarah, for example Tammuz is mentioned in Yechezkel, not as a month but as an idol.

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