VAS License Plates on a Non-Emergency Vehicle

Home Coffeeroom Local & Neighborhood Issues VAS License Plates on a Non-Emergency Vehicle

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  • #605206

    avhaben
    Participant

    Why is their abuse of the VAS license plates in New York, where obviously non-emergency vehicles (including trucks, beat-up car only used by a child or wife, etc.) have VAS plates and are utilized to abuse parking and driving privileges?

    And what can be done to stop the abuse and rein in the violators?

  • #1031152

    Health
    Participant

    Avhaben -Speak to your elected officials.

    There was a time that gov. officials in NYC were abusing their NYPD Placards. Enough people complained until the gov. cracked down on them.

    The same can be done with people who abuse VAS plates and/or lights and sirens. Unfortunately there are always some bad apples who will abuse a privledge given to them.

  • #1031153

    2scents
    Participant

    What’s the issue?

    These plates give the driver no privileges.

  • #1031154

    2scents
    Participant

    Placards are different then vas or emt plates.

    Placards usually mean that your on official business.

  • #1031155

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    2cents is correct. The VAS plates don’t give you any special parking privileges. You need the DOT parking permit to get the privileges.

  • #1031156

    2scents
    Participant

    Do you want the wife of a volunteer to remove the plates each time she uses the car?!

  • #1031157

    avhaben
    Participant

    They officially don’t give any privileges. But as a practical matter meter maids and police officer will rarely if ever ticket a VAS vehicle. And this is abused at times.

  • #1031158

    2scents
    Participant

    this is up to the cops own discretion,the fact that police might look the other way if someone is one way or the other affiliated with an ambulance service, or if that person is a Lic EMT they have the right to have custom plates.

    There is no abuse here.

  • #1031159

    avhaben
    Participant

    The abuse is that they get a second VAS plate for their wifes car that isn’t used for emergency responses or someone who isn’t (or is no longer) responding to calls uses a VAS plate or a friend of a member gets a VAS plate.

    Another type of abuse is when a legit VAS plate holder — when NOT responding to calls — abuses his parking and/or driving priviliges that is (unofficially) extended to him.

  • #1031160

    2scents
    Participant

    ahaben,

    You made two points. There is no abuse, since this does not mean that they are on official business, in fact service units which are not emergency vehicles also have VAS plates, all it means is that they are a volunteer, if someones has more than one car, he or she can put it on all the cars, this is a regular custom plate you can get one by taking an EMT course and placing it on ALL of your cars.

    as I pointed out, VAS plates does not meant that the driver is on official business, so he can use it even when not on call, the fact that he will not get a ticket, does not make this an abuse.

    It is his choice if he would like to take the risk and park illegally or not. the plates will not get a ticket dismissed.

  • #1031161

    Ðash®
    Participant

    The abuse is that they get a second VAS plate for their wifes car that isn’t used for emergency responses …

    Here is a snippet from the application form.

    NOTE: To obtain custom plates in the two series listed below, the current registration must be in the name of the emergency services member OR his/her spouse.

    Volunteer Ambulance Service (PROOF: Letter from ambulance company certifying eligibility. Must be on ambulance company letterhead.

    FEE: $43.75)

  • #1031162

    I see VAS cars parking at fire hydrants or blocking intersections while they go daven in shul or visit someone.

    Also have seen the cars zipping through red lights they just missed, or driving on the shoulder of the road, all while not responding to a call. (They sometimes turn on their lights or siren while they illegally zip through traffic and then shut it off as soon as they passed whatever they were trying to get through.)

  • #1031163

    avhaben
    Participant

    My point isn’t the abuse is technically done with VAS plate. Almost every car with a VAS plate also has a placard in the windshield window from the ambulance company stating it has special priviliges. And this is what is abused: the priviliges granted with the placard.

  • #1031164

    cb1
    Member

    Also have seen the cars zipping through red lights they just missed, or driving on the shoulder of the road, all while not responding to a call. (They sometimes turn on their lights or siren while they illegally zip through traffic and then shut it off as soon as they passed whatever they were trying to get through.)

    Not every emergency is authorized for lights & sirens. there are many times that i am on a emergency call where i will only turn on my lights & sirens when going through heavy traffic and immediately turn it off after i get through even though i am on a call.

    People, how about a little Dan L’kaf Zchus here!! Most Hatzolah members do NOT abuse their privileges!!

  • #1031165

    Not every emergency is authorized for lights & sirens. there are many times that i am on a emergency call where i will only turn on my lights & sirens when going through heavy traffic and immediately turn it off after i get through even though i am on a call.

    If is not authorized for lights & sirens, how are you using lights & sirens for the time you are going through heavy traffic (even if you immediately turn it off after)? You are admitting to using lights & sirens against the law.

    Anyways, I wasn’t talking about that scenario. I am talking about where the driver has no emergency. He simply just missed the green light and wants to chap going through the intersection, so he quickly flashes his l & s for a few seconds to get through the intersection. Or there is heavy traffic on the 17 on the way to the country, so he drives on the shoulder of the road for a few minutes to beat the traffic.

    And not to repeat the parking abuse when not responding to calls.

    P.S. Absolutely most members don’t abuse it. But the ones that do give everyone a black eye.

  • #1031166

    Borough Park Mensch
    Participant

    Dash,

    Thank you for posting the information. I was wondering if you could answer a few questions:

    1. What is the difference between VAS and EMT (or EMT-P) plates?

    2. Is it true that some people who have VAS plates are not EMTs? If so, what are the qualifications to get VAS plates? (I know you said that a sponsorship letter is required so I am basically asking what you have to do to get the letter.)

    No harm is intended by these questions; I am just curious.

  • #1031167

    DaasYochid
    Participant

    If is not authorized for lights & sirens, how are you using lights & sirens for the time you are going through heavy traffic (even if you immediately turn it off after)? You are admitting to using lights & sirens against the law.

    Do you consider a legal technicality more important than someone’s life?

  • #1031168

    yitzchokm
    Participant

    Borough Park Mensch,

    If we tell you, we’ll have to kill you. Even if you mean no harm.

    Are you sure you want to know?

  • #1031169

    Ðash®
    Participant

    1. What is the difference between VAS and EMT (or EMT-P) plates?

    2. Is it true that some people who have VAS plates are not EMTs? If so, what are the qualifications to get VAS plates? (I know you said that a sponsorship letter is required so I am basically asking what you have to do to get the letter.)

    EMT and EMT-P plates are for EMTs or Paramedics regardless of their participation in an ambulance service.

    VAS plates are for members of volenteer ambulance services or their spouces regardless of their medical capabilities.

  • #1031170

    Health
    Participant

    avhaben -“My point isn’t the abuse is technically done with VAS plate. Almost every car with a VAS plate also has a placard in the windshield window from the ambulance company stating it has special priviliges. And this is what is abused: the priviliges granted with the placard.”

    I agree with you that some abuse their priviliges. But if you want change -complain to your elected officials. Coming here only helps you let off steam, but nothing will change.

    All you get is response from some Hatzolah members that e/o who is a member is a perfect little angel.

  • #1031171

    Do you consider a legal technicality more important than someone’s life?

    The law always allows lights & sirens when there is even a possibility someone’s life is at stake. That the law prohibits lights & sirens is because it is a non-life threatening/minor incident.

  • #1031172

    Can we set one thing straight please? You can only get one set of VAS plates. The DMV will not issue more than 1 set per customer. You can verify this on the mv411 form.

    Secondly, how does it constitute abuse when the plates merely indicate that one is a member of a volunteer ambulance company. It does not mean that the vehicle is a EASV (emergency vehicle). In effect it is no different than a MD or DDS plate for that matter.

    The ID placard designates a vehicle as an EASV but that too only states that the vehicle is allowed to use lights and sirens.

    If your perception is that people driving these vehicles park them illegally more often than others (which may be true, but unlikely given the proportion of civilian vehicles vs VAS vehicles) then that is not abuse. If the NYPD accord these people a professional courtesy and don’t issue them citations as often, that is the prerogative of the officer. If they wouldn’t cite expensive cars, that is their choice too. That doesn’t make illegally parking your Lexus an abuse of privilege.

    Driving down the shoulder when not responding to an emergency is similarly not an abuse of privilege. VAS plate drivers do not have a privilege of driving on the shoulder. If a civilian would drive down the shoulder how is he any different? They are both abusing their driving privileges, to be frank.

    PS Can we please stop beating up the Hatzoloh members?

  • #1031173

    Naysberg
    Member

    Why do cops generally not pull over a hatzala car with vas plates when they are speeding or go through lights? Obviously once they see vas they don’t bother. (Same with parking.) So the vas plates itself carry priviliges.

  • #1031174

    2scents
    Participant

    First, Cops DO pull over cars even if they have EMT or VAS plates.

    Regarding lights and sirens, I do not believe that Hatzoloh members abuse them, the consequences are to big to use them when not on an emergency.

    You might see someone turn on the lights and sirens only to shut them a few seconds later, this happens all the time, either the patient stopped choking or the first member on scene radioed the units to slow it down.

    This happens almost each day. There are those people who are out to correct the world and make sure to call the dispatcher on the hotline that unit so and so used lights and sirens to go through a red light.

  • #1031175

    First, Cops DO pull over cars even if they have EMT or VAS plates.

    So how do members respond to calls (with l & s) without having to worry about a cop pulling him over while he is on the way to respond to an emergency?

  • #1031176

    yitzchokm
    Participant

    The Litvishe Kiryas Yoelite-

    What’s your issue? Do you work for the fdny? is Hatzoloh taking away business?

  • #1031177

    2scents
    Participant

    TLKY, I do not understand your questions, there are two separate issues being discussed here, Custom plates and Lights/Sirens.

    I was referring to the custom plates which are nothing more than a nice license plate. Police do not hesitate to pull over a car that has custom plates.

    Lights and Sirens are a different issue, they are only to be used in an emergency. People that abuse the L&S are usually not members of Hatzoloh, using L&S in an unauthorized manner is illegal and dangerous, the consequences are big.

  • #1031178

    Naysberg
    Member

    A few years ago I saw a small old red car (looked non-Jewish) with VAS plate number “1” in the parking lot of Home Depot (Hamilton Ave.)

  • #1031179

    Health
    Participant

    2scents -“First, Cops DO pull over cars even if they have EMT or VAS plates.”

    What it boils down to is the cop’s perception. I’ve been pulled over many times by cops during a response. Of course since I was legit – I didn’t get a ticket. In parts of NJ where they aren’t used to having people respond in personal vehicles, I’ve gotten pulled over. This was probably true once upon a time in NY. Nowadays with almost every cop in NY and other areas where Hatzolah responds, you’d be hardpressed to find a cop who’s ignorant about personal response. So they don’t pull over cars with Cherrys anymore. This is how people who aren’t even a member of any emerg. org. get away with using lights and sirens -they don’t check up anymore. So if a cop sees a Frum man using lights and sirens, he just assumes they are Hatzolah and ignores them.

    “Regarding lights and sirens, I do not believe that Hatzoloh members abuse them, the consequences are to big to use them when not on an emergency.”

    Either you’re very ignorant or you have an agenda.

    I’ve have friends admit to me that they have abused their lights and sirens. And these are guys who are very on the up & up, but anybody can fall prey to the Yetzer Hora. So what do you think about the guy on Hatzolah who isn’t there for the right reasons?

    Do you think he never abuses his priviliges?

    “You might see someone turn on the lights and sirens only to shut them a few seconds later, this happens all the time, either the patient stopped choking or the first member on scene radioed the units to slow it down.”

    Or the guy got through the red light and didn’t need the lights & siren anymore. (Whether on a call or not.) Your scenarios are possible but it’s easy to tell if this is indeed the case. A guy with a scanner can easily tell by listening if there are any calls in the neighborhod. Even during a call it’s easy to tell, if let’s say two units who were dispatched report on the scene and with the ambulance already responding. So there would be no units with lights and sirens enroute. You have to be dispatched to the call -you just can’t go.

    These abuses are real, despite any denial from some posters here.

    But like I said before, if you want change, the only ones that can make change are the elected/gov. officials. Coming here does nothing besides making you feel good.

  • #1031180

    Borough Park Mensch
    Participant

    VAS plates are for members of volenteer ambulance services or their spouces regardless of their medical capabilities.

    Dash,

    Thank you for your reply. First, let me say this is not about Hatzoloh. There are plenty of other volunteer ambulance services in the state almost all of which are not Jewish.

    Since you said that a member or spouse can get VAS plates even if they don’t do first aid then is it at least possible that some unethical volunteer groups give out letters to big donors or volunteers who do things like clerical work?

    Again, this is not about Hatzoloh.

  • #1031181

    uneeq
    Member

    I think people shouldn’t focus on Hatzolah members as being the ones abusing the privileges of having VAS plates. I personally know a bunch of people that aren’t EMT’s that have these license plates. The ones I know don’t speed through red lights and such, and don’t believe that it gives them more rights when it comes to parking. Though they are happy to have a little leeway when it comes to the insane ticketing standards of NY traffic police.

  • #1031182

    uneeq: How did these non-members get VAS plates?

    What other volunteer ambulance services exist in New York, other than Hatzalah?

  • #1031183

    2scents
    Participant

    Health,

    Correct me if I am wrong, in NJ EMTs are not allowed to have red lights or pass through red lights, they have to follow the regular traffic rules.

    That is why cops would pull over EMTs that respond in their personal cars.

    In NY, the law permits EMTs to have lights and sirens and go through red lights.

    I did not understand what you wrote regarding two units responding with the ambulance en route, all units respond on a code 1 unless advised otherwise, even if the ambulance is already on the way, the ambulance without EMTs is not worth much.

    I will not deny that abuse does not exist, however it is not wide spread, at least not in the area I am. the member runs the risk of being caught either by PD (they can follow you to the scene), or by a coordinator. Most people that call in to complain are referring to a call that has been canceled or downgraded.

  • #1031184

    Ctrl Alt Del
    Member

    Bensonhurst Vol Amb

    Park Slope Vol Amb

    BRAVO

    East Midwood Vol Amb

    NY Community Vol Amb

    Shorefront Vol Amb

    Tri-Community Vol Amb

    Gerritson Beach Vol Amb

    Flatland Vol Amb

    Bed-Stuy Vol Amb

    Those are just the ones in Brooklyn (that I can remember)and almost those volunteers are eligible for VAS plates.

  • #1031185

    Ctrl Alt Del
    Member

    Hmmm, Gerritsen Beach may be part of Queens. I don’t remember exactly.

  • #1031186

    Health
    Participant

    2scents -“Correct me if I am wrong, in NJ EMTs are not allowed to have red lights or pass through red lights, they have to follow the regular traffic rules. That is why cops would pull over EMTs that respond in their personal cars.”

    Wrong. First of all, I didn’t go through any red lights and was pulled over, nor did I use L & S. Technically they have to have blue lights on their vehicles, not L & S. It’s only allowed (L & S) for the Chief or Captain of the service. (Only one person per squad.) Already many moons ago, many Hatzolah members in NJ in the areas that they respond have L & S. They use these with impunity and disobey all traffic laws like they are emergency vehicles. I personally don’t care – I’m not from the complainers, but I’m not going to sweep the truth under the carpet either.

    “I did not understand what you wrote regarding two units responding with the ambulance en route, all units respond on a code 1 unless advised otherwise, even if the ambulance is already on the way, the ambulance without EMTs is not worth much.”

    I’m not going to explain it, if you didn’t understand it. Perhaps reread it. The gist of my point was that anybody with a scanner and a little knowledge of how Hatzolah works can easily tell if a Hatzolah guy using L & S is legit. I personally don’t care what abuse is going on -it’s not my business. It’s the responsibility of the Vol. squad and the Gov. But if the OP and others are so bothered by this, they can easily find those who abuse their priviliges and then they can document it. And then they can report it to the proper authorities.

  • #1031187

    Ðash®
    Participant

    In NY, the law permits EMTs to have lights and sirens and go through red lights.

    No, only an EASV (Emergency Ambulance Service Vehicles) is allowed to have lights and sirens. Hatzalah’s dispatch model uses the members POV (Privately Owned Vehicles) as RRVs (Rapid Responce Vehicles) so they can qualify as EASVs.

    New Jersey does not allow POVs to be EASVs.

    Since you said that a member or spouse can get VAS plates even if they don’t do first aid then is it at least possible that some unethical volunteer groups give out letters to big donors or volunteers who do things like clerical work?

    Based on my understanding, a member whose sole function is clerical would be eligible for VAS plates

  • #1031188

    Naysberg
    Member

    Is it correct to say that NYPD Traffic will almost never ticket a vehicle with VAS plates for any parking (and probably moving too) violation? (Call it a “courtesy” if you wish.)

  • #1031189

    2scents
    Participant

    Health,

    Why would you get pulled over if you do not have L&S and are not passing through any red lights?

    I know that anyone can listen to scanners, however that does not mean that a member using L&S is not legit. most people do not have scanners and they complain because they do not know what went on behind the scene.

    Also some members respond to a private calls in which they contact the dispatcher by phone.

  • #1031190

    miritchka
    Member

    avhaben: Its sad that there are members of frum organizations that think they can get away with many driving/parking laws just because they have the plates or the permit (i’m referring to when they are not on a call or off duty). There is no answer anyone can give for them. As a wife of a hatzoloh member, I feel even stronger about the abuse of the placards than others may feel. Its wrong 100%. My question is how can you put down one group of people when they are the minority of people who go through red lights, park at hydrants, speed, etc… Go down a couple of blocks in, BP for example. Dont tell me that all those cars double parked are hatzoloh members…Just because a cop decides that he personally wont ticket a VAS plate,doesnt mean that the VAS holder is wrong and the average driver with reg license plates is not.

    The Litvishe Kiryat Yoelite: It happened a couple of times that i was in the car when my husband responded to a call and about a minute after he was dispatched, they cancelled the call. Now tell me, if you saw that i know that anyone would think he was “abusing his powers” by using his l and s and going through the lights. I know i would. Thats why i buried my red face in my lap for a few blocks. Please dont judge!

    Health: I usually respect and look forwrd to your comments. And i still do, which is why this comment made me do a double take after i read it: “you get is response from some Hatzolah members that e/o who is a member is a perfect little angel.” While you may not be directly bashing Hatzoloh, this wasnt a very nice comment to write, especially after the many times that other posters (whom i am assuming are members of hatzoloh) post time and again that unfortunately not everyone is 100% honest with the temporary priviledges given to them.

    Another question to those that are upset that some cops wont ticket hatzoloh members: Does it really bother you that your fellow Jew, your brother, wasnt ticketed? The fact that he was wrong is between him and Hashem. I always hated it when teachers had pets in school but there’s nothing you can do except to do your best and to do the right thing.

  • #1031191

    miritchka: The problem is not that a member who abuses his privileges is not ticketed. I am very happy he isn’t ticketed and yiddishe gelt doesn’t go to the government. But the problem with abuse is that the abuser is hurting all other drivers and parkers on the road.

    Furthermore, and even much worse, when other drivers see driving abuse (i.e. using sirens to pass through heavy traffic or pass other drivers or go through a red light [suddenly turning on their siren to pass and then immediately turning it off after they passed]) too many times, in the future they may not pull over when they hear sirens during a real emergency since they may assume it is just another member abusing his privileges.

  • #1031192

    2scents
    Participant

    Naysberg,

    No that is not correct, they will ticket cars that have VAS plates as well.

    In fact Members get tickets all the time when on call.

  • #1031193

    Naysberg
    Member

    How do the members get the tickets dismissed?

  • #1031194

    Health
    Participant

    2scents -“Why would you get pulled over if you do not have L&S and are not passing through any red lights?”

    You wouldn’t have these questions if you read the whole post.

    Here it is again:

    “What it boils down to is the cop’s perception. I’ve been pulled over many times by cops during a response. Of course since I was legit – I didn’t get a ticket. In parts of NJ where they aren’t used to having people respond in personal vehicles, I’ve gotten pulled over. This was probably true once upon a time in NY.”

    They don’t think e/o with a blue light is legit. They pull you over to check.

    “I know that anyone can listen to scanners, however that does not mean that a member using L&S is not legit. most people do not have scanners and they complain because they do not know what went on behind the scene.

    Also some members respond to a private calls in which they contact the dispatcher by phone.”

    You take Dan L’caf Zecus to new level. There are actually very few private calls and most of these they notify dispatch via radio. What I’m saying is if anyone wants to document abuse, which I personally don’t care about, all they need is a scanner.

    You can figure out how they work if you listen long enough. And then you can figure out who is abusing their L & S.

    I wasn’t talking about anybody who has actually complained. I don’t know anyone who has, but I’ll take your word for it that people have. So I wouldn’t know if their complaint was valid or not.

  • #1031195

    2scents
    Participant

    They explain to the judge that they were on call.

  • #1031196

    2scents
    Participant

    Is there anything else left for us to argue about?

  • #1031197

    Health
    Participant

    miritchka -“Health: I usually respect and look forwrd to your comments. And i still do, which is why this comment made me do a double take after i read it: “you get is response from some Hatzolah members that e/o who is a member is a perfect little angel.” While you may not be directly bashing Hatzoloh, this wasnt a very nice comment to write, especially after the many times that other posters (whom i am assuming are members of hatzoloh) post time and again that unfortunately not everyone is 100% honest with the temporary priviledges given to them.”

    While you are correct that some people own up to the truth, my attitude comes from those that are in total denial and bash you for saying the truth.

    Here is an example of s/o owning up to the truth, even though he did it as a defense instead of just a plain admission:

    “cb1

    Music Producer –

    People, how about a little Dan L’kaf Zchus here!! Most Hatzolah members do NOT abuse their privileges!!”

    He said most.

    OTOH, here is an example of the other way. From the topic of “Joining Hatzalah”:

    “Poster -Hatzola is there for anyone that needs it R”L. They put their personal schedule to the back burner for any call. No one should have the chutzpa to speak bad about them no matter what.”

  • #1031198

    2scents
    Participant

    Health, I do not think that this using L&S for nothing is something that happens often.

    Maybe in NJ where L&S is prohibited the members break the law and use. however in NY most members use the L&S responsible.

  • #1031199

    coffeeaddict
    Member

    Very timely thread as I just came home from work and found a note on my husbands car that said “hatzalah members are not above the law…” because the car parked by a no standing sign. Well believe it or not, that sign was put up either today or yesterday – after my husband parked his car there! Next time maybe try to be dan lekaf zechus!

  • #1031200

    miritchka
    Member

    Health: Thank you for clarifying.

    The Litvishe Kiryat Yoelite: Your last post makes it seem that this happens so often by hatzolah members that its affecting traffic everywhere. As mentioned before, it does happen that a member would abuse their temporary priviledges, but it’s not as common as you make it seem. And it definitely doesnt happen so often that drivers wont stop/pull over when they see flashing lights. Please stop putting down a whole group of people because of a few members actions. And to respond to your earlier post on this thread: I can almost guarantee that if you ask any yid out there, and even some non-Jews, what they think of hatzoloh, the first thing out of their mouths will be along the lines of: what they do is amazing and selfless. So please try to focus on the good and suck it up when you see something that annoys you. Just as you would hve to do if any driver starts driving up the shoulder on a highway with bumper to bumper traffic.

  • #1031201

    Come to think of it, shouldn’t there be some perks to those who dedicate themselves to the public and get out of bed at all hours of the night, give up their shabbos meals with their families, their quiet time after work, and interrupt their daily routines to help?

  • #1031202

    Naysberg
    Member

    Driving and parking “perks” cannot be claimed where the government did not grant it.

  • #1031203

    Health
    Participant

    Here We Go Again – There is nothing wrong with perks, but these perks, that we are talking about, are illegal and dangerous!

  • #1031204

    2scents
    Participant

    There are no perks.

    They are not allowed to use L&S when not on call.

    The OP is referring to VAS plates, sometimes cops will look the other way if someone has VAS or EMT plates, however these are not perks.

    I cannot understand how people are jealous of volunteers who respond without prior notice, they give up their schedule to help the community.

  • #1031205

    agent
    Participant

    2cents-I know you say that members don’t put on their lights to make a red light-but unfortunately that just happened recently. My husband was driving and the street was backed up with traffic. The light turned green and the cars where slowly moving. The car behind my husband put on his lights and thinking that it was a Hatazaloh member on call my husband pulled over. The car passed my husband and made the green light and then he turned the light off. So my husband ended up missing the light because the guy in back of him decided to take advantage of his lights.

  • #1031206

    2scents
    Participant

    agent,

    Three things come to my mind.

    Either that person was not a member, just someone with lights and sirens that took unreasonable and dangerous risk and broke the law.

    Either the call has been canceled or downgraded, (for instance as the first person the scene radios to the other units responding that they can downgrade it and proceed without lights and sirens.

    Or, this was a bad apple, someone that misused and abused his L&S.

    There is no real way of knowing what really happened. I know that it looks upsetting when you see someone turning on his L&S only to shut it a few minutes later, however there might be a legitimate reason as to why he did so.

  • #1031207

    agent:

    I see what you describe happening quite frequently.

  • #1031208

    Health
    Participant

    2scents -“There are no perks.”

    Maybe not officially, but some seem take perks that they aren’t allowed to.

    “I cannot understand how people are jealous of volunteers who respond without prior notice, they give up their schedule to help the community.”

    You said you aren’t a member of Hatzolah, so why the relentless defense of them?

    The fact is the people posting here aren’t jealous, they are angry. Do you know the difference?

    They are angry about some members abuses. While I’m sure most members have joined for the right reasons and never abuse the system, there are some that haven’t and do abuse.

    Why do you seem to be in denial about this?

  • #1031209

    mewho
    Member

    and for a new point of view i would like to mention that there are many nypd unmarked vehicles out there that flip their lights on and off to go thru lights as well.

    how do u know which is which if the plates are not vas or emt?

  • #1031210

    2scents: I see what “agent” described above occur regularly. The member (frum driver with VAS plates) turns on his L&S for literally just a few seconds to beat a light or traffic and turns it off immediately after he passed the traffic.

  • #1031211

    2scents
    Participant

    Health,

    Interesting that you should be asking a personal question after hiding your medical occupation and degree.

    i will not hide the fact that there are bad people, however the majority of people that volunteer are responsible.

    Recently there was a call a possible code 1, someone responded, however a few seconds seconds later other units that were closer radio’d that they are near by, therefore the first member can cancel, he passed two red lights before getting the cancelation notice.

    i am sure that there were people that were mad at this person, however the fact of the matter was that he did act accordingly.

    I am not hiding the fact there is abuse, however keep in mind that its a normal thing for members to get canceled or the call gets downgraded.

  • #1031212

    Health
    Participant

    2scents -“Interesting that you should be asking a personal question after hiding your medical occupation and degree.”

    I did Not ask any personal question. You don’t read the question well. Here it is again:

    “You said you aren’t a member of Hatzolah, so why the relentless defense of them?”

    You previously posted that you don’t belong to them. I never asked you whether you’re a member or not.

    “i will not hide the fact that there are bad people, however the majority of people that volunteer are responsible.

    I am not hiding the fact there is abuse, however keep in mind that its a normal thing for members to get canceled or the call gets downgraded.”

    Only in your last two posts did you finally admit that there is abuse. While you keep saying that maybe these calls are real and the anger is unjustified, you ignore the instances of abuse in your posts where the anger is justified.

  • #1031213

    2scents
    Participant

    Health,

    If you feel that you have to come out on top, then be it.

    However I was not trying to debate or challenge you.

    I did mention in one of my prior posts that abuse might be present, only that it is not common.

    I never denied abuse. Only that it is extremely rare.

    and yes, I am a volunteer, in the past week I have shut off the L&S three times, I went wrong way and even went through red lights before shutting the L&S.

    Either the call was canceled or there were closer responder’s and I was no longer needed. Sorry if that made you mad.

  • #1031214

    It is neither rare nor uncommon. I’ve witnessed what “agent” described above, as well as other abuse, regularly over a period of many years. The lights and sirens (frum driver, frum neighborhood, VAS plates) go on for exactly the few seconds or so needed to beat a traffic control device (light, shoulder, street regulation, etc.) And I myself witnessed this repeatedly over time. Not to even get into the parking abuse when not on call.

  • #1031215

    Health
    Participant

    The Litvishe Kiryas Yoelite -I honestly don’t know if it is rare or not, but one thing I can tell you is that this Hatzolah Org. is in denial that this exists; besides for a few members admitting it, most are in denial or don’t care that this goes on.

  • #1031216

    2scents
    Participant

    Health,

    Interesting, you don’t know if abuse exists or if its rare yet you know that hatzoah is in denial.

    TLKY,

    Yes, all it takes for a radio transmission is a few seconds.

  • #1031217

    2scents: Puleaze. I’ve seen it happen quite often over a period of many year. And always for just enough time for the driver to turn on and off his lights & sirens for exactly the time it takes him to pass the traffic jam.

    We both know it is not that often that a call comes in and is cancelled 45 seconds later. And the few times it does happen, how coincidental that it usually happens when the driver just so happens to be in a traffic jam rather than experiencing normal traffic.

  • #1031218

    2scents
    Participant

    We both know..

    As I told you, this past week this happened to me three times.

    So we do not both know. You are assuming, I’m giving you the facts.

  • #1031219

    You are claiming that you got a call three times this week — that you took and already turned on your l&s — that was cancelled in LESS than a minute? You didn’t say that above.

    The fellows trying to beat a red light turn on their l&s just after they missed a green light — holding up everyone else in traffic — and turn if off as soon as they made the turn on red, literally a few seconds later. I’ve witnessed this very frequently over the years.

    Theoretically it is possible they all just got a call, just as they missed the light, and the call got cancelled – just as soon as they went through the red. Theoretically. But I’ve seen it often enough — and I’m only one person — that theory makes the reality implausible.

  • #1031220

    Borough Park Mensch
    Participant

    I can almost guarantee that if you ask any yid out there, and even some non-Jews, what they think of hatzoloh, the first thing out of their mouths will be along the lines of: what they do is amazing and selfless. So please try to focus on the good and suck it up when you see something that annoys you. Just as you would hve to do if any driver starts driving up the shoulder on a highway with bumper to bumper traffic.

    Posted by miritchka

    “Suck it up?” Does your rav approve of such language? I do not.

    Let’s put aside the questions about lights and sirens and talk about “perks” and parking.

    If you volunteer for an organization you should do so with a good heart and without the expectation of personal benefit. If your organization provides benefits for which they pay, e.g. a free meal, that’s one thing. We are talking about other things.

    According to your reasoning, since rendering emergency medical care is an important benefit to society, we should all collectively overlook the numerous parking violations of the holders of VAS plates. This might work except that: 1) as revealed in this thread, at least some VAS cars are driven by people who do not give emergency medical care so why should we excuse their violations; and 2) parking is regulated by the city government and VAS license plates are entitled to no parking privileges.

    As discussed elsewhere in the Coffee Room, if you have a parking placard from the Department of Transportation, that is for use when you are attending to an emergency, not for your personal use.

    When I see cars with VAS plates parked illegally for three days in a row, I call that abuse of the system. You should not condone it.

  • #1031221

    Health
    Participant

    2scents – “and yes, I am a volunteer,”

    Hatzolah or Spring Hill?

    “Health, Interesting, you don’t know if abuse exists or if its rare yet you know that hatzoah is in denial.”

    You lose any Neemanous when you twist people’s posts around. I said abuse exists, just don’t know if it’s rare or not.

    I said two possible reasons why the Org. doesn’t put an end to this practice – “most are in denial or don’t care that this goes on.” So I said one or the other, not that I know for sure that they are in denial.

  • #1031222

    As a Hatzolah member, I would like to address this post with several points:

    1. No VAS plate is issued without a letter from the agency that the registrant works for,

    2. There ARE, in fact, many unscrupulous agencies in NYC that will issue a letter in exchange for a large (bribe) donation. It goes without saying, that Hatzolah will never do this,

    4. ALL Hatzolah vehicles (private and Ambulances) have a NYS DOH inspection sticker in the right of the windshield. These stickers are blue and yellow and are visible at a distance. Absence of this sticker is another indication of an imposter,(look for it)

    5. I have personally witnessed, on numerous occasions, vehicles bearing VAS plates being driven recklessly with L&S while there is no call going on. A check into the Hatzolah database always indicated that these are not H members. These individuals are rotzchim and I have no problem calling him a “rodef”. Unfortunately, there is nothing any of us can do besides hope that they get pulled, and a full investigation is launched as to where the plate authorizations came from,

    6. Hatzolah has a zero tolerance for members abusing the law thereby putting the organization into jeopardy, the membership knows that we are under the public microscope and held to a higher standard,

    7. We are not the Police and there is therefore not much that we can do regarding non-members who drive recklessly and break the law. It disturbs and angers us more than it annoys anyone of you.

    In summation, I agree with all that there exists a real problem and being the agencies are abusing the system, there needs to be better oversight by DMV, and enforcement by the local Police.

  • #1031223

    2scents
    Participant

    TKYL

    Yes sir. that is exactly what I claim, it is very common to respond to an emergency and a different volunteer to radio in that he is closer to the scene.

    Especially when you claim that you have seen this over the years, which means that you have not seen it much, either way, a member has a lot to loose and little to gain when using his L&S in an unauthorized manner.

  • #1031224

    2scents
    Participant

    Health,

    Why is it that you, one that on a consistent bases covers up what your occupation is (however uses is to put others down) keeps on asking me what mine is.

    What matter does it make where I volunteer?

    Either way, I have not twisted your post (I will comment that you have3 constantly done so to my posts, besides trying to put me down, however I ignored it, since I thought that it makes you feel better).

    You comment and rant as if your in the know, However in the are that I am, there is no abuse.

    (when I say no, I dont mean absolute, rather that it does not occur often, rather it is extremely rare).

  • #1031225

    jackness
    Member

    i must say i am very surprised here. A bunch of freakin ingrates we have here.

    let me ask all you haters out there the following question: Let us assume that there is no such thing a “fake hatzolah member” or whatever you wanna call them. and all the “horrible” things you see these guys do are really hatzolah members doing. WHAT IF YOU WERE THE PERSON CALLING IN THE CALL?????

    I remember a story someone was complaining that a members radio was on very loud, i looked at the guy like he was ill, and asked him “what if you were the one calling in? would you not want this member to be able to hear the call???”

    As far as hatzolah plaques giving you privileges, thats a load of garbage, i have gotten many a ticket with the hatzolah plaque even while on a call.

    In summary: when u see a vas car blocking a hydrant or blocking a walkway, instead of thinking “what a jerk” think “if i were to get hit by a bus right now, BH this wonderful hoatzolah guys car is very close to him”

  • #1031226

    jackness
    Member

    and FOR THE LOVE OF G-D get your facts straight the DOT permit given to hatzolah members ARE NOT so they can park illegally on a call (anyone can do that so long as they have the doh sticker and legal lights and sirens) the dot permit is so they can park “illegally” when they are NOT on the call so they a) dont have to waste time looking for parking and b) they have access to the car if a call goes out. Yes they “should not” be parking like that if they know 100% sure they can not go on a call at that time but again that usually is very rare because there is always that one call you MUST go on…….

  • #1031227

    Health
    Participant

    2scents -“Health, Why is it that you, one that on a consistent bases covers up what your occupation is (however uses is to put others down) keeps on asking me what mine is.”

    I don’t know why you have trouble comprehending certain simple concepts. I cover up my career for personal reasons. If for some reason telling us who you volly for is too revealing of personal info – then say so. It’s not tit for tat. It has nothing to with what I reveal to the public. And I never knew volunteering was an occupation. The way you respond to posts is revealing to me about your maturity. It sounds very teenageish.

    “Either way, I have not twisted your post (I will comment that you have3 constantly done so to my posts, besides trying to put me down, however I ignored it, since I thought that it makes you feel better).”

    You have because you posted this:

    “Health, Interesting, you don’t know if abuse exists”

    I never said that I don’t know. You put words into my mouth, so this is twisting my posts.

    “You comment and rant as if your in the know, However in the are that I am, there is no abuse.

    (when I say no, I dont mean absolute, rather that it does not occur often, rather it is extremely rare).”

    Ok, so what occurs in the Monsey area occurs all over? Where did anybody post that in Monsey -Hatzolah abuse occurs quite often?

    This topic was in general – so how could you come and defend the Org. when you are not familiar with what occurs in different areas?

  • #1031228

    Health
    Participant

    The Litvishe Kiryas Yoelite –

    All I can tell you is you’re wasting your breath, because you see clearly from YeshivaRodefKesef’s post that they are in denial!

  • #1031229

    Health
    Participant

    jackness -“I remember a story someone was complaining that a members radio was on very loud, i looked at the guy like he was ill, and asked him “what if you were the one calling in? would you not want this member to be able to hear the call???”

    I don’t like to comment on cases where I don’t have exact details, but let’s assume the complainer was justified and the radio was on very loud. Let’s also assume this was in a place where there should be quiet, eg. Shul. Btw, I’ve been in Shul with Hatzolah guys and usually the radio is not that loud. But assuming that this guy’s radio was very loud -you condemn the complainer because the Hatzolah guy can’t hear the call otherwise. While this would be an excuse if there was no other way -this is not the case. Why can’t the member use an ear piece instead of disturbing the people around him?

  • #1031230

    Borough Park Mensch
    Participant

    and FOR THE LOVE OF G-D get your facts straight the DOT permit given to hatzolah members ARE NOT so they can park illegally on a call (anyone can do that so long as they have the doh sticker and legal lights and sirens) the dot permit is so they can park “illegally” when they are NOT on the call so they a) dont have to waste time looking for parking and b) they have access to the car if a call goes out. Yes they “should not” be parking like that if they know 100% sure they can not go on a call at that time but again that usually is very rare because there is always that one call you MUST go on…….

    Posted by Jackness.

    This is absolutely, completely, totally incorrect.

    The Department of Transportation permit alows illegal parking only while responding to an emergency. This has been discussed before in the Coffee Room with someone citing the exact regulations. If you have any doubt, however, check with the the DOT Authorized Parking and Permits Bureau.

    VAS members do not get free, unrestricted parking 24/7/365. They have this privilege only while actually responding to an emergency. I would be worried about the judgment of someone who actually believes this nonsense.

  • #1031231

    Borough Park Mensch
    Participant

    YeshivaRodefKesef,

    Out of respect to the moderaors, I will not quote back your entire post, merely one portion.

    1. No VAS plate is issued without a letter from the agency that the registrant works for

    Yes, we know this already. Here is a question for you: If VAS plates do not require the possession of an EMT or EMT-P license, then who gets them? Further, is it not true that some of these plate holders are not emergency responers?

    Regarding the rest of your message, I have just one more question. Take a look at Borough Park. There are a number of shuls that have No Parking signs in front of them. Look at the block of 15th Avenue between 48th and 49th Streets on the northwest side. The only two buildings there are two shuls with No Parking signs in front of each. Between the afternoon of Sunday October 7 (Hoshanna Raba) and the morning of Wednesday October 10 (day after Simchat Torah), there were at least a half dozen cars with VAS plates parked there.

    To which organization do these drivers belong and why does it not do anything about their law breaking?

  • #1031232

    Ðash®
    Participant

    The Department of Transportation permit alows illegal parking only while responding to an emergency. This has been discussed before in the Coffee Room with someone citing the exact regulations. If you have any doubt, however, check with the the DOT Authorized Parking and Permits Bureau.

    Here’s a excerpt from Rudy Giuliani’s statement when he authorized the DOT to issue the permits:

    Specifically, this bill will enable volunteer ambulance personnel to station their emergency ambulance service vehicles in close proximity to their work or home location, by permitting them to park in spaces that are prohibited by sign or rules, but only when the vehicle is on standby for an emergency ambulance service. The permit system does not and would not authorize the parking of motor vehicles in areas that would be contrary to public safety, such as fire hydrants or fire zones.

    This permit system plays an important role in saving people’s lives in New York City. By allowing volunteer ambulance personnel to station vehicles near their home and work while on call for emergency service, the response time it takes EMTs to reach victims of medical emergencies is clearly improved.

  • #1031233

    Health
    Participant

    Borough Park Mensch -“Further, is it not true that some of these plate holders are not emergency responers?”

    Any member of a VAS can get VAS plates, even if they are EMT’s or EMT-P’s and even if they are not, as long as they are members. Most members of VAS put VAS on their license plates. They don’t want to put EMT or EMT-P on their plates anymore because they believe the VAS plates protects them from tickets. Whether this is actually the case or not, I don’t know.

    “To which organization do these drivers belong and why does it not do anything about their law breaking?”

    You really don’t know? I’m sure they are Hatzolah members. They probably parked there over Yom Tom because they probably Daven in those Shuls and they wanted their vehicle close by in case they have to respond from Shul. Whether this is illegal or not, I have no idea.

  • #1031234

    Dear “BP Mensch”, my post was clear, but as a response to your question anyway:

    You asked:

    If VAS plates do not require the possession of an EMT or EMT-P license, then who gets them? Further, is it not true that some of these plate holders are not emergency responers?

    Response:

    If you can find out how and why Bed-Stuy Volunteer Ambulance who gets literally no emergency calls, yet they have several hundred frum members, who mostly live in other boros, with VAS plates; you might be on your way to solving the problem here. And, Yes, none of these folks are emergency responders as I said. They are rotzchim !!

    Your second Question:

    Response:

    See my answer above ! I agree this is a huge problem, but NOT a Hatzolah problem.

    Also, you failed to mention how many of those cars had valid, current Hatzolah ID plaques. Id say most did not. If some are legit, I think that most would agree that members in shul do need their vehicles nearby to respond to a call and I defend their actions. Were not talking hydrants here. The problem were discussing here are non-members parking and driving with L&S on like lunatics.

  • #1031235

    To Health:

    “To which organization do these drivers belong and why does it not do anything about their law breaking?”

    You responded:

    “You really don’t know? I’m sure they are Hatzolah members.”

    Really? You know this how? You think or youre sure ?!?

    You say youre sure, so I imagine you were there and checked each car and found a valid plaque and DOH sticker.

    Ever heard of Dan l’kaf zechus, my friend?

    Especially for those who drop whatever were doing when you need us?

  • #1031236

    Borough Park Mensch
    Participant

    Dash,

    It’s unclear from your post if you are trying to contradict me or not. Assuming your quote of former Mayor Giulianis ia accurate, you should be aware that what you quoted and what the law itself says are two different things and it is the law that governs.

    From the Administrative Code of the City of New York:

    “19-162.2 Permissible parking for emergency ambulance service vehicles operating for volunteer ambulance services

    a. For purposes of this section the following terms shall have the

    following meanings:

    1. “volunteer emergency medical technician” shall mean an individual

    who meets the minimum requirements established by regulations pursuant

    to section three thousand two of the public health law and who is

    responsible for the administration or supervision of initial emergency

    medical care and transportation of sick or injured persons and who

    performs such services without the receipt or expectation of monetary

    compensation.

    2. “volunteer ambulance service” shall mean a registered or certified

    volunteer ambulance service as defined in section three thousand four of

    the public health law.

    3. “emergency ambulance service vehicle” shall mean a vehicle which is

    an appropriately equipped motor vehicle owned or operated by an

    ambulance service as defined in section three thousand one of the public

    health law and used for the purpose of transporting emergency medical

    personnel and equipment to sick or injured persons and which is

    transporting a certified first responder.

    4. “certified first responder” shall mean an individual who meets the

    minimum requirements established by regulations pursuant to section

    three thousand two of the public health law and who is responsible for

    administration of initial life saving care of sick and injured persons.

    b. The commissioner shall issue an annual on-street parking permit for

    a vehicle authorized by a volunteer ambulance service to operate as an

    emergency ambulance service vehicle. The volunteer ambulance service

    shall submit an application for each permit requested on such form as

    the commissioner shall determine and shall certify that the permit is

    necessary for the performance by a volunteer emergency medical

    technician of his or her duties on behalf of that volunteer ambulance

    service.

    c. The volunteer ambulance service shall specify the requested

    geographic territory for each permit, which may not exceed the primary

    operating territory listed on the department of health and mental

    hygiene ambulance service registration or certification pursuant to

    section three thousand four of the public health law.

    d. Such parking permit shall only be used for the purpose of parking a

    specified emergency ambulance service vehicle where parking is

    prohibited by sign or rule, and only while such vehicle is on standby

    for use by a volunteer emergency medical technician to respond to

    medical emergencies.

    e. The license plate number of the vehicle and the name, address and

    telephone number where the volunteer ambulance service can be reached

    shall be written on the face side of the permit.

    f. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, such parking permit

    shall not authorize the parking of a motor vehicle in a bus stop, a

    taxi-stand, within fifteen feet of a fire hydrant, a fire zone, a

    driveway, a crosswalk, a no stopping zone, a no standing zone, or where

    the vehicle would be double-parked.

    g. Any misuse of such permit shall be sufficient cause for revocation

    of said permit.

    h. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, no vehicle bearing an

    annual on-street parking permit issued pursuant to this section may be

    towed when such vehicle is being used in accordance with the purpose for

    which such permit was issued, except in public safety emergencies to be

    determined by the police department.”

    Please note specifically the provisions of Paragraph d:

    d. Such parking permit shall only be used for the purpose of parking a specified emergency ambulance service vehicle where parking is prohibited by sign or rule, and only while such vehicle is on standby for use by a volunteer emergency medical technician to respond to medical emergencies.

    When the word “standby” is used, it does not mean 24/7/365. Few people in this world are always on standby. But, as I said before, if you believe I am in error, why not write the DOT Authorized Parking Bureau and ask them if you have the right to break the parking rules any time you wish?

    You will note that thislaw requires the permit holder to be capable of rendering “initial life saving care of sick and injured persons.”

  • #1031237

    Borough Park Mensch
    Participant

    Health,

    I have only a guess as to which organization the holders of those VAS plates might belong to. I am hoping one of them will join in and tell us why he parks as he does.

  • #1031238

    Borough Park Mensch
    Participant

    YeshivaRodefKesef,

    Thank you for your post. I will take a closer look on Friday night after davening and see who is parked in front of the shuls.

    The rest of your post suggests that another volunteer ambulance service is writing license plate sponsorship letters for, let’s say less than forthright reasons. This is scandalous. If true, why is this information being kept quiet?

  • #1031239

    What service does Bed-Stuy Volunteer Ambulance do?

    Also, isn’t there very strict regulations in New York State on who may have lights and sirens? Even if someone bought a “membership” in some volunteer ambulance service, that itself doesn’t entitle them to have L&S – even if they have a VAS plate. So how do they have L&S?

  • #1031240

    Health
    Participant

    The Litvishe Kiryas Yoelite -“Also, isn’t there very strict regulations in New York State on who may have lights and sirens? Even if someone bought a “membership” in some volunteer ambulance service, that itself doesn’t entitle them to have L&S – even if they have a VAS plate. So how do they have L&S?”

    The people who buy these things just want to get away with illegal activity. They know that if they put L & S on their cars with VAS plates, that it’s a very long shot that they will be pulled over to see if they are actually responding to an emergency.

  • #1031241

    When the word “standby” is used, it does not mean 24/7/365. Few people in this world are always on standby.

    I completely disagree. The fact that Hatzala members are on standby 24/7 should certainly fit into the law allowing them to be considered on standby 24/7.

  • #1031242

    Health
    Participant

    BPM -“When the word “standby” is used, it does not mean 24/7/365. Few people in this world are always on standby. But, as I said before, if you believe I am in error, why not write the DOT Authorized Parking Bureau and ask them if you have the right to break the parking rules any time you wish?

    Now I’m not an expert in law, but this a gray area. You could say “standby” doesn’t mean 24/7, but who says this is right? Hatzolah can hold they are on “standby” 24/7. The only way to know exact definitions is when a case like this goes to court and the Judge defines it one way or another. And then it has to go up the appeals process before you have case law.

    It’s obvious that they are defining “standby” as 24/7.

    And if you say a Judge would never define it that way, I know many examples where Courts have literally removed the basic translation of the law and put in their own meaning. They call this “Legislating from the Bench”. This is a big problem in this country – they give too much power to our Court system.

  • #1031243

    Health
    Participant

    YeshivaRodefKesef -“Really? You know this how? You think or youre sure ?!?

    You say youre sure, so I imagine you were there and checked each car and found a valid plaque and DOH sticker.

    Ever heard of Dan l’kaf zechus, my friend?

    Especially for those who drop whatever were doing when you need us?”

    What are you – a Macher/Coordinator for Hatzolah? When s/o writes they are sure it doesn’t mean they are 100% sure, otherwise they would say that, just it’s most likely/probable.

    And why would you get on the defensive, when I wasn’t attacking Hatzolah? I posted that I don’t know if it’s illegal or not. I just posted to BPM that the law could be acc. to Hatzolah’s interpretation. So for s/o to get on the defensive for no reason, it’s usually because they are feeling guilty. So what are you feeling guilty about – esp. if noone on Hatzolah does anything wrong?

  • #1031244

    jackness
    Member

    “This is absolutely, completely, totally incorrect.

    The Department of Transportation permit alows illegal parking only while responding to an emergency. This has been discussed before in the Coffee Room with someone citing the exact regulations. If you have any doubt, however, check with the the DOT Authorized Parking and Permits Bureau.

    VAS members do not get free, unrestricted parking 24/7/365. They have this privilege only while actually responding to an emergency. I would be worried about the judgment of someone who actually believes this nonsense.”

    BORO PARK NONSENSE

    You are wrong stop saying nonsense. If you have a vendetta against hatzolah thats fine- next time you have a heart attack call 911 and wait the 20 min. see what i or anyone else cares.

    The DOT permit gives the member to park illegally SO LONG AS THEY ARE “AVAILABLE” as i clearly said in my post. And was written very clearly in the DOT laws quoted.

    This discussion is petty and babyish, all those who have issues with hatzolah so be it, dont call them when you have an emergency. If i were to tell you that NO ONE would join if they were not able to 1) park in handycap 2) go through red lights even when not on calls 3) park where they want to whenever they want to. WHAT WOULD YOU SAY THEN???? so just pretend that is the case and grow up.

    @health – seriously? that is your response? instead of assuming i am an idiot why dont you assume i am not and the radio was not on TOO loud. As far as the ear piece it is not so simple to take in and out on shabbbos or yom tov. It is also to many people uncomfortable. My point was is and always will be, everyone sings a very different tune when they have an emergency.

  • #1031245

    a member has a lot to loose and little to gain when using his L&S in an unauthorized manner.

    2scents: You repeated this a few times. Yet, in reality, there is little risk for a member to flash his L&S for 15 seconds (during no emergency) in order to pass a traffic holdup when he is late for work or is just impatient. The likelihood of anything happening, other than beating traffic, is extremely small.

    A bunch of freakin ingrates we have here… This discussion is petty and babyish, all those who have issues with hatzolah so be it, dont call them when you have an emergency. If i were to tell you that NO ONE would join if they were not able to 1) park in handycap 2) go through red lights even when not on calls 3) park where they want to whenever they want to. WHAT WOULD YOU SAY THEN????

    jackness: Based on your comments here it is clear you are an arrogant demanding member who is a disgrace to Hatzala and ought to be relived from duty.

  • #1031246

    Health,

    Not that it is relevant who I am, but I am a Hatzolah member and I will not standby while you attack other members or the organization.

    You clearly said that you “were sure” those parking illegally were H-Members. When one says thay are “sure” it means that they have no doubt otherwise. That is what I questioned.

    If you are just voicing your opinion, then you ought to learn to be “dan L’kaf zechus”, and you should cosider the ramifications of loshon-hora and motzi-shem-ra on a rabim before posting.

    Reading your posts (to others and myself) vs mine, the average person will likely conclude that you are the one that is both defensive and offensive while I am calm. I will not speculate as to what your issues and agenda might be, but I suspect that one exists.

    Please don’t expect me to respond to your rants again, I am not looking to get into a match with you.

  • #1031247

    BPM,

    I don’t think this is about members parking in front of shuls. Memebrs respond from shul and their vehicles and equipment are needed closeby.

    This is about non-memebers who violate the law and put the public in danger by driving reclessley, with unauthorized L&S, and block pumps.

    This issue is compounded by those chayas having VAS plates; the public and Police assume that it is Hatzolah, they get away with their actions, and Hatzolah gets a bad rap due to this incorrect assumption.

    You are correct, that these plates are obtained through another volunteer ambulance service by giving out letters for less than forthright reasons as you put it.

    I understand that the main culprit is Bed-Stuy Vol Ambulance, and this is “public knowledge” within “the macher, and wanna-be circles” so I don’t think that is really being kept quiet.

    If they are licensed as a Vol Amb Svce, they do have the right, technically, to issue letters to their “members”.

    I agree that this is scandalous, but I am not sure what can be done besides local Police enforcement by actually following these cars to see where they are going. I have been followed while responding, and I no issue with it. Let PD do it more often so they can see we are legit and at the same time the chayas will hopefully get weeded out.

    Perhaps an audit of Bed Stuy by the DOH and DMV might revoke their license, and DMV can recall and not renew all those plates. Not sure however if this is a top agenda for the State.

  • #1031248

    Health
    Participant

    jackness -“HEALTH – seriously? that is your response? instead of assuming i am an idiot why dont you assume i am not and the radio was not on TOO loud. As far as the ear piece it is not so simple to take in and out on shabbbos or yom tov. It is also to many people uncomfortable. My point was is and always will be, everyone sings a very different tune when they have an emergency.”

    Look I posted before I don’t like judging up cases without hearing the other side. But obviously this person who complained thought the guy’s radio was on too loud. Whether it was or wasn’t, there is no way for me to know. If you were there – what should have happenned was that you should have asked others standing there what their opinion was. Instead right away you jumped to this guy’s defense. This was your bias at play.

    If others would have said -Yea, it’s too loud -then the member who is hard of hearing should wear an ear piece in Shul, whether it’s uncomfortable or not. If the others there would have said -No, it’s not too loud -then your defense was warranted.

    As far as Shabbos, he can use two radios -one for home & one for Shul with the ear piece – if the guy has the actual need to have his radio on very loud.

    “My point was is and always will be, everyone sings a very different tune when they have an emergency.”

    This could be, but the point of this topic in the CR is that Vollys for Ambulance Services don’t have the right to abuse others. The abuse could be using L & S when not authorized, parking illegally when not available to respond, having relatives who are not responders parking illegally, and now that you mentioned it – blaring your radio when it disturbs others.

    While all these things probably are not too common, they do occur.

  • #1031249

    Borough Park Mensch
    Participant

    jackness,

    Or do you believe that asking a question or [gasp]

    Before I get to the rest of your diatribe, it seems quite clear that if you belong to a volunteer ambulance service, you certainly do not handle their public relations.

    If you have a vendetta against hatzolah thats fine- next time you have a heart attack call 911 and wait the 20 min. see what i or anyone else cares.

    The DOT permit gives the member to park illegally SO LONG AS THEY ARE “AVAILABLE” as i clearly said in my post. And was written very clearly in the DOT laws quoted.

    If i were to tell you that NO ONE would join if they were not able to 1) park in handycap 2) go through red lights even when not on calls 3) park where they want to whenever they want to. WHAT WOULD YOU SAY THEN????

    Thanks for the question. What I would say would be almost the same thing I would say to similar questions such as:

    So, If i were to tell you that NO ONE would join if they were not able to 1) park in handycap 2) go through red lights even when not on calls 3) park where they want to whenever they want to. WHAT WOULD YOU SAY THEN????

    . . . just pretend that is the case and grow up.

    Thanks but I would prefer to pretend I am engaging someone with manners.

    I am confident your organization has access to legal advice. I suggest you get some.

    Thank G-d, I am extremely confident that this is not the official policy of any organization in my neighborhood.

  • #1031250

    Health
    Participant

    YeshivaRodefKesef -“Not that it is relevant who I am, but I am a Hatzolah member and I will not standby while you attack other members or the organization.”

    Please explain to me in plain English how I was “Attacking” Hatzolah.

    “You clearly said that you “were sure” those parking illegally were H-Members. When one says thay are “sure” it means that they have no doubt otherwise. That is what I questioned.”

    Yes, I’m still pretty sure. We’ll wait for BPM to look at the cars and see if they are Hatzolah or not.

    You seem to suffer from some sort of paranoia because you consider my posts as an attack. I had just posted to BPM that I’m quite confident the cars parked there are Hatzolah. Since you didn’t actually read my whole post before you responded, you assumed that I agreed that they were illegally parked. I actually posted that I wasn’t sure if it was legal for them to park there or not. So since I wasn’t sure if these cars were doing anything wrong, just was sure that the cars were Hatzolah, where did you find an Attack on Hatzolah?

    It seems that your rant towards me was baseless. So your defense is really an offense because you think noone has the right to comment on Your ambulance service, just others (eg. Bed -Stuy).

  • #1031251

    I wonder if those who get into their long winded 5 paragraph attacks realize that no one reads it except the attackee.

  • #1031252

    2scents
    Participant

    Btw, since my last post. I turned on L&S twice for about 30 seconds before shutting it. On both occasions I was not needed at the scene anymore.

  • #1031253

    avhaben
    Participant

    2scents: You missed my question in the Double Parking thread whether you were able to get the double parking ticket you received when picking up an elderly passenger dismissed using your Hatzalah membership?

  • #1031254

    2scents
    Participant

    No, I paid for it. I was not a volunteer at that time. Besides I cannot see how volunteering would work as an argument.

  • #1031255

    avhaben
    Participant

    How do members get tickets, received while on call, dismissed?

    (And wouldn’t that work off call, too?)

  • #1031256

    2scents
    Participant

    They have to prove that they were on call.

    I know of members that got speeding and reckless driving tickets while responding to calls that we’re not dismissed.

  • #1031257

    Borough Park Mensch
    Participant

    I wonder if those who get into their long winded 5 paragraph attacks realize that no one reads it except the attackee.

    Posted by Medium Thinker.

    Although many people have limited attention spans, regrettably, not everything can be expressed in single sentences.

    On Shabbos, do you listen to the entire kriyas hatorah or do you have a text message sent to you beforehand?

  • #1031258

    2scents
    Participant

    Parking tickets that are received while on call are easy to fight. speeding and reckless driving tend to be more difficult.

  • #1031259

    avhaben
    Participant

    How do you easily fight parking tickets?

    And couldn’t you just as easily get dismissed a parking ticket received off-duty using the same method you use to easily dismiss on-duty parking tickets?

  • #1031260

    2scents
    Participant

    I prove with proper documentation that I was responding to a call.

    Also if the times match up, I can have the organization handle the parking ticket for me.

    However a moving violation, even with L&S you are not allowed to drive recklessly.

    There are members that have points on their license only cuz a cop wanted to teach those jews with lights a lesson..

  • #1031261

    avhaben
    Participant

    Is it an abuse of NY’s L&S laws if a member flashes his lights or siren for a second if another driver is blocking the street in front of him when he is driving off duty?

  • #1031262

    2scents
    Participant

    I would say that yes, if the member uses his lights to get someone moving when not in an emergency this might be an abuse.

    However sirens, if it is just a small hunk with the siren then I dont think that this is called using the siren.

  • #1031263

    Borough Park Mensch
    Participant

    The phrase “reckless driving” is not being properly used here.

    Reckless driving shall mean driving or using any motor vehicle, motorcycle or any other vehicle propelled by any power other than muscular power or any appliance or accessory thereof in a manner which unreasonably interferes with the free and proper use of

    the public highway, or unreasonably endangers users of the public highway. Reckless driving is prohibited. Every person violating this provision shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.” [emphasis added]

    Reckless Driving does not mean going 10 MPH over the limit. Reckless Driving is a crime. There is no “tzetel” that anyone can write you that will get you out of a criminal charge. It will require a trial and/or a plea bargain.

  • #1031264

    2scents
    Participant

    I understand that driving reckless is a crime and dangerous. I personally know the member involved. He did not drive reckless or swerve.

    The officer that pulled him over kept on making anti Semitic statements and repeated more then once that he will put a stop to these Jewish cars with lights.

    The member pleadeted with the officer to follow him to the scene (it was an MVA) or contact his dispatcher the offic refused.

    The officer wrote 6 citations. Most we’re thrown out.

  • #1031265

    Isn’t it extremely rare for a Hatzalah member to get a moving violation, while on call, anywhere in New York City?

  • #1031266

    Borough Park Mensch
    Participant

    jackness,, where oh where are you? You fired off a bunch of diatribes which were answered and you haven’t been back?

    Perhaps, like some other VAS members, you’re busy playing police officer at gas lines like the one at 14th Avenue and 38th Street in Borough Park.

  • #1031267

    2scents
    Participant

    I dont get it, you might one day be on the receiving end. Why talk down to someone that has volunteered to help you and your community in the event that a medical emergency comes up?

  • #1031268

    Borough Park Mensch
    Participant

    2scents, people set the tone for the reply they wish to receive. If you look back to the previous page, you will note where jackness (if there indeed is such a person and not someone using multiple screen names)first referred to me as Borough Park Nonsense and then said that if you want to criticize his organization (which I did not do) then you can die. (We are all still waiting for you to condemn his response.)

    My questions to you:

    1. Do you believe that VAS groups may be criticized?

    2. Do you believe that there exists valid criticism of some VAS groups or some of their members?

    3. Do you believe that VAS members are not subject to the laws of the state, city and federal government?

    4. Do VAS groups have an internal disciplinary system (like the NYPD Internal Affairs Bureau) that investigates citizen complainst against their members?

    5. In your VAS group, whichever it may be, how many members were expelled or suspended in the past ten years?

  • #1031269

    Health
    Participant

    Borough Park Mensch – All I can tell you is that your points are just the tip of the iceberg.

  • #1031270

    MonseyFan
    Member

    Talk about abuse. I work near a couple of well known hospitals on the upper east side. A member of Hatzola, whom I think is a (male) nurse, takes advantage of his EMT plates to park in a NO PARKING area every day. Parking is hard is this neighborhood, and parking lots are expensive. If you take a job around here, this is the price you pay. He has a large HATZOLA parking placard in his window, his not on any call — what does the average pedestrian goy think?

  • #1031271

    2scents
    Participant

    BP Mench,

    Answer to Question 1,2,3 and 4 is YES.

    Number 5, I do not know the exact count, this is private information even members do not get briefed on this. however this happens often members get suspended and expelled all the time.

    We have a very strong discipline and a lot of rules to which we must adhere.

    Most of the members in our organization are serious and mentchliche people, not youngsters that want to feel important, we focus on Patient care and thats about it. We give away our personal time to transport patients to the facility that would serve the patient best, even if that means traveling long distance.

    There will always be what to criticize and there always will be bad apples, however in the bigger picture we do a lot.

    My point is, that you never know if you will one day be on the receiving end of Hatzoloh or not, each day a lot of people are and chances are that you or one of your family members will call us with an emergency. So why bash us? are we taking something away from you?

  • #1031272

    2scents
    Participant

    MonseyFan,

    I think that that he has a DOH placard which lets him park at No Parking signs.

  • #1031273

    avhaben
    Participant

    2scents: That is still an abuse of the placard. The Department didn’t issue him the placard so that he can illegally park at a No Parking zone while he goes to work at his private employer.

    (Hospital nurses in NYC aren’t issued placards to park in No Parking zones. MonseyFan indicated he saw a large Hatzala placard being displayed in his windshield. This happens a lot more frequently than is being admitted.)

  • #1031274

    MonseyFan
    Member

    to 2cents: He may be allowed, but its an abuse of the privilege.

  • #1031275

    Borough Park Mensch
    Participant

    2scents,,

    I was okay with everything you said until I got to your last paragraph where you wrote:

    My point is, that you never know if you will one day be on the receiving end of Hatzoloh or not, each day a lot of people are and chances are that you or one of your family members will call us with an emergency. So why bash us? are we taking something away from you? [emphasis added]

    Let’s be clear; the definition of “bash” is “to attack physically or verbally.” I have done neither. Perhaps you have mistakenly used it as a synonym for “criticize” in which case you have negated your agreement that it is okay to criticize VAS groups. Is that the case? Please clarify.

    But to address the plain meaning of the words in your post, I am sorry, but you may be polite, but the essence of your post is the same as that of jackness, viz., Don’t criticize a VAS if you ever want to use them!

    Pending your clarification, I disagree with this sentiment. No one is above criticism, not me, not you, not even the President of the United States. And if this bizarre notion is the policy of any VAS, I am shocked.

    It disturbs me to read these ideas expressed by someone who claims to be a member of an organization that professes to be working because it is a mitzvah.

  • #1031276

    Health
    Participant

    Borough Park Mensch -“Pending your clarification, I disagree with this sentiment. No one is above criticism, not me, not you, not even the President of the United States. And if this bizarre notion is the policy of any VAS, I am shocked.”

    Don’t be so shocked. Like I posted before -this is the tip of the iceberg. I doubt you could guess, even in your wildest dreams, the rest of it.

  • #1031277

    2scents
    Participant

    BP Mench,

    I dont know what your agenda is, however you are nit picking my post.

    I answered on all of your questions yes and explained to you question number 5.

    in other words, we do get disciplined for our actions, be it patient care, reckless driving or anything else, we get suspended as well.

    We are under huge scrutiny, we know that. we get criticized for things we did not even do, or things that one irresponsible member does.

    I have not been hired or gain anything by defending Haztoloh, however I can say this, Hatzoloh is a well organized and disciplined organization. Most of its volunteers are serious people.

    The local police respect us,as they are aware that we are not just a bunch of guys with lights.

    So yes, we are open for criticism just as any other organization is, but please dont bash us without knowing the facts, and especially if you got the ‘info’ over the internet by some anonymous poster with an agenda.

  • #1031278

    2scents
    Participant

    Health,

    You previously stated that you were at one point an EMT and that you worked in the prehopital setting.

    I do not know if you still do so or not. however it seems that you have an agenda here. As you have admitted that you do not really know whats going on, however you keep on stating that this is the “tip of the iceberg” and worse then your “wildest Dreams”.

    Please get a life.

  • #1031279

    Health
    Participant

    2scents -“however it seems that you have an agenda here.”

    Everyone has agendas. Yours is this relentless defense of all the critical posts here. Mine is the truth.

    “As you have admitted that you do not really know whats going on, however you keep on stating that this is the “tip of the iceberg” and worse then your “wildest Dreams”.”

    Well to the extent of that I don’t know what goes on 24/7, but I know a lot more than you.

    “Please get a life.”

    I do have somewhat of a life – do you?

  • #1031280

    iced
    Member

    I feel that it is very worth joining Hatzalah just for all the parking priviliges (parking in NYC is a nightmare without the parking privilige placard) and driving privileges (gridlock is a big pain). Of course the main thing is the mitzvah.

  • #1031281

    Herr Himmel
    Member

    I see some Chaveirim guys now have a parking placard in their windshield. Does this entitle them to parking in restricted zones? (Some also have lights and sirens.)

  • #1031282

    real-brisker
    Member

    Health, TLKY, BPM – All you, sound like your trying to take revenge on your rejection to hatzolah.

  • #1031285

    Health
    Participant

    real-brisker -“Health, TLKY, BPM – All you, sound like your trying to take revenge on your rejection to hatzolah.”

    Maybe the posts sound like revenge, but who says it’s because of rejection? Try again – not even close.

  • #1031286

    2scents
    Participant

    Empty criticism such as “you will be shocked when you know what really goes on”, or “I know the truth”. is not real criticism and does not deserve any response.

    Every person and ever organization should be open for critisim, however the criticizer must know what they are talking about.

  • #1031287

    Borough Park Mensch
    Participant

    real-brisker

    Health, TLKY, BPM – All you, sound like your trying to take revenge on your rejection to hatzolah.

    This is completely false. I have never applied to any volunteer ambulance service. I volunteer my time doing pro bono legal work.

    Why you would say this speaks more about you than anything else as it sends the message that the only motivation someone could possibly have for criticizing a VAS would be revenge for being rejected. Are you really in that much denial? Could it possibly be that there are [gasp!] valid criticisms regardless of some VAS companies and members?

    2scents, now you’re showing me the same problem as real-brisker above. I have no “agenda” hidden or otherwise. I live in a neighborhood and a state where multiple VAS organizations operate. I contribute money to at least one of them.

    Although I have given you the courtesy of looking up the word “bash” for you in the dictionary, you continue to misuse it. Is this intentional?

    Again, if you are so open to criticism, what is your organization doing about people who park illegally when they are not on call?

    FYI, take a look at the corner of 50th Street and 16th Avenue in Borough Park where there is a No Standing zone. With the VAS cars parked there every day, you might think you are at the scene of a mass casualty. Actually, the drivers are shopping at Bochner’s grocery.

    Also, what is your organization doing about people who create their own placards (i.e. not the NYC DOT) one and put them in their windshields?

    Herr Himmel, In Borough Park, there are so many phony placards around, it’s sometimes hard to tell the real ones. LOL. “BSSP” is another big user of these.

  • #1031288

    vochindik
    Member

    BPM: I’ve always wondered what the purpose of that No Standing zone on 50 and 16 was for. It says it is for “NYP”. Any idea (and why over there)?

  • #1031289

    Health
    Participant

    2scents -“Empty criticism such as “you will be shocked when you know what really goes on”, or “I know the truth”. is not real criticism and does not deserve any response.”

    1. So why did you respond?

    2. It actually wasn’t criticism to the public at large – I actually was talking to s/o here – namely BPM.

  • #1031290

    real-brisker
    Member

    Health – Thanks for agreeing to my point. You have some side intention why you are taking revenge.

  • #1031291

    real-brisker
    Member

    BPM – Aha, so you new you weren’t going to get accepted even before applying?

  • #1031292

    2scents
    Participant

    BPM,

    I really hate going into such silly arguments, I called it bash since there wasnt much substance to your criticism.

    I do not know what is going on in BP or the exact legality of parking at a no parking when not on call.

    However in our organization I know of at least one incident in which a member has had his placard taken away because he used it to park each day at a water hydrant. He was warned that parking there is at his own risk and if he wants to park there he should remove the placard from the window since it puts the organization in a bad light.

    Just this Friday as I went shopping, I saw a fire chief parking his car at a No Parking and went shopping. I would never really notice something like that, however it seems that other Emergency responders take advantage of the fact that they will not get ticketed. (and in one way free up another legal parking spot).

    I am sorry if I hit a wrong nerve, you jumped on one word that I used, however the you dismissed the content. Therefore I will repeat it, Yes we are scrutinized all the time, we constantly get disciplined and questioned for everything we did. We are a serious organization with serious and mentchliche people.

    I was not hired or gain anything by defending Hatzolah, I just get bothered when people state things that are not accurate.

  • #1031293

    Borough Park Mensch
    Participant

    Posted by real-brisker

    BPM – Aha, so you new [sic] you weren’t going to get accepted even before applying?

    Keep making a fool of yourself! Yes, with my two university degrees I could never make it through a training program that apparently someone semi-literate like you had no problems with. I wonder how I passed the New York Bar Exam back in the days when 75% failed.

    Again, people, this is not about me nor is it about Health or any other poster.

    The topic is “VAS Plates On A Non-Emergency Vehicle.”

    If the only response you have to criticism of a VAS organization is to attack the individual who made the criticism, a person whom you do not even know, perhaps you should refrain from posting anything and then see a rav for some mussar.

  • #1031294

    farrocks
    Member

    “I do not know what is going on in BP or the exact legality of parking at a no parking when not on call.”

    How do you deal with this issue for yourself, when not on call, as far as parking in a No Parking area?

    “However in our organization I know of at least one incident in which a member has had his placard taken away because he used it to park each day at a water hydrant. He was warned that parking there is at his own risk and if he wants to park there he should remove the placard from the window since it puts the organization in a bad light.”

    Why is the discipline limited to illegally parking by a fire hydrant? Why isn’t the same discipline metered out when someone parks in a No Parking area, when not on call? (There appears to be a lot of that occurring.)

    “Just this Friday as I went shopping, I saw a fire chief parking his car at a No Parking and went shopping. I would never really notice something like that, however it seems that other Emergency responders take advantage of the fact that they will not get ticketed. (and in one way free up another legal parking spot).”

    Two wrongs don’t make a right. They’re doing wrong doesn’t legitimize it being done here.

    “I feel that it is very worth joining Hatzalah just for all the parking priviliges (parking in NYC is a nightmare without the parking privilige placard) and driving privileges (gridlock is a big pain). Of course the main thing is the mitzvah.”

    Seriously?

  • #1031295

    real-brisker
    Member

    BPM – You need more qualifications to get accepted to hatzolah than just passing a the EMT test.

  • #1031296

    real-brisker
    Member

    BPM – BTW, I am not part of hatzolah. Nor do I have any affiliation with them.

  • #1031297

    2scents
    Participant

    BPM,

    Initially I was under the impression that you have legitimate criticism against hatzoah, therefore I tried to answer them. I have responded to your questions only to have misused the word bashing which got you worked up.

    Unless you don’t ask any serious questions I will not reply anymore.

  • #1031298

    Health
    Participant

    real-brisker -“BPM – BTW, I am not part of hatzolah. Nor do I have any affiliation with them.”

    So why are you defending them? And even more so – Why are you lying in their defense? Here is the outright lie:

    “BPM – You need more qualifications to get accepted to hatzolah than just passing a the EMT test.”

    What more qualifications do you need?

    If you would have wrote – you need more that being an EMT to join -this is probably true. You need connections and/or to be part of their clic to join.

  • #1031299

    farrocks
    Member

    What more qualifications do you need?

    You need to be a “macher” to join. They don’t strictly accept based on qualifications. You need to have connections. (Like you said.)

  • #1031300

    2scents
    Participant

    I do not think that this is true.

    The more people you know, the less chances is that they will accept you, they dont like it when people get in because they are a macher, since its a threat to their authority and discipline.

  • #1031301

    2scents
    Participant

    Health,

    Please be kind enough to point out where he was lying.

    I will try to answer as to why he is defending them, since they are an organization with the objective of serving the community and the individual in a time of need. so when some poster decides to ridicule the organization with a bunch of non sense, he stands up against that poster.

    or, maybe he or someone he knows was on the receiving end of the organization and saw first hand how they operate, therefore he found it his business to stand up against them.

    Now I will ask you the question you asked him, why are you standing up AGAINST Hatzoloh?

  • #1031302

    real-brisker
    Member

    Health – You need to be someone that will fit their standards. They dont just take every shmoger.

  • #1031304

    real-brisker
    Member

    2scents – +1 Those are exactly my points.

  • #1031305

    Health
    Participant

    2scents -“I do not think that this is true.

    The more people you know, the less chances is that they will accept you, they dont like it when people get in because they are a macher, since its a threat to their authority and discipline.”

    You seem like a nice fellow so I’ll explain it nicely.

    I actually didn’t use the word Macher -I said you need connections to the group.

  • #1031306

    Health
    Participant

    2scents -“Health, Please be kind enough to point out where he was lying.”

    Simply because he said additional QUALIFICATIONS. This is not true in the slightest.

    “I will try to answer as to why he is defending them, since they are an organization with the objective of serving the community and the individual in a time of need. so when some poster decides to ridicule the organization with a bunch of non sense, he stands up against that poster.

    or, maybe he or someone he knows was on the receiving end of the organization and saw first hand how they operate, therefore he found it his business to stand up against them.”

    Or simply because he has a big mouth. Why are you answering for him? If any of the things you mentioned were true -he would have said so.

    Also, why are you calling it nonsense -many people stated that the law is being broken, but you still call this nonsense?

    “Now I will ask you the question you asked him, why are you standing up AGAINST Hatzoloh?”

    My response would never make it through moderation.

  • #1031307

    Health
    Participant

    real-brisker -Now that’s Brisk, Baby!

    Why do you call yourself a Brisker? What Shaichous do you have to Brisk?

    “They dont just take every shmoger.”

    You’re right, just some.

    “Health – You need to be someone that will fit their standards.”

    First you said qualifications, now you say standards.

    What are these standards? Perhaps they are that you have to be part of their clic.

  • #1031308

    real-brisker
    Member

    Health – Here we go again. When you have no better leverage, you start picking on a SN.

  • #1031309

    real-brisker
    Member

    Health – What is not true about qualifications? Please elaborate.

  • #1031310

    real-brisker
    Member

    Health – Only you can answer for BPM. But 2scents cant answer for me? That’s not fair!

  • #1031311

    real-brisker
    Member

    Health – In my dictionary, standards and qualifications means pretty much the same thing.

  • #1031313

    Health
    Participant

    real-brisker -“Health – What is not true about qualifications? Please elaborate.”

    What don’t you understand? I asked you on the page before -what qualifications do you need besides being an EMT?

  • #1031314

    Health
    Participant

    RB – “Health – Only you can answer for BPM. But 2scents cant answer for me? That’s not fair!”

    I did answer for you also. Here’s my quote from above:

    “Or simply because he has a big mouth.”

  • #1031315

    real-brisker
    Member

    Health – So your admit to being a hypocrite.

  • #1031316

    Health
    Participant

    real-brisker -“Health – So your admit to being a hypocrite.”

    No, I don’t see anything that I wrote even remotely similar to hypocrisy.

    Since you’re online, please go to Merriam -Webster’s website and look up the words -“standards, qualifications & hypocrite”.

    I don’t think you have a real grasp of the definitions of these words.

  • #1031317

    2scents
    Participant
  • #1031318

    real-brisker
    Member

    Health – No, I don’t see anything that I wrote even remotely similar to hypocrisy.

    Ok, here you go:

    Health:

    real-brisker -“BPM – BTW, I am not part of hatzolah.

    Nor do I have any affiliation with them.” So why are you defending them? And even more so –

    Why are you lying in their defense…

    And then you asked 2scents:

    Or simply because he has a big mouth. Why are you

    answering for him? If any of the things you mentioned were true -he would have said so.

    Also, why are you calling it nonsense -many people stated that the law is being broken, but you still call this nonsense?

    And then you said:

    I did answer for you also. Here’s my quote from

    above:

    So is one allowed to answer post for another? Or only you can?

    Teach me the rules of your game.

  • #1031319

    2scents
    Participant

    Please, lets debate and discuss things in a pleasant and mature matter.

  • #1031320

    Health
    Participant

    R-B – I’m not going to repeat all your quotes, because it’s redundant. (Another word you could look up.)

    Let me explain the obvious -since you didn’t comprehend it.

    When I posted -“Why are you answering for him?” -I didn’t mean he isn’t allowed to, just that he didn’t have the right answer/reason why you posted. It’s called a rhetorical question.

    (You can look up this word also.)

  • #1031321

    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    It seems someone is broigus that he was not considered by hatzola even though he is a self described expert. Shows me that hatzola certainly has standards. And probably qualifications in addition to just passing an emt course.

    All I know is that I see dedicated volunteers that give up of themselves continually and they have saved thousands of lives, all for no pay.

    That’s what I have seen with my eyes. What I have also seen are bitter illogical comments by posters who are the same.

    There may be things that are not perfect, but in my eyes they are a lot more perfect than you.

  • #1031322

    mewho
    Member

    I havent posted here in ages but I have been reading posts. I still see the same bullying coming from one specific poster.No matter the subject this one person feels to know it all and no one else can come close. Perhaps that attitude is what kept this poster off of Hatzolah.

    A little bit of humble pie is a good thing.

  • #1031323

    Health
    Participant

    mewho – “I still see the same bullying coming from one specific poster.”

    What?? Only you’re allowed to bully others?

    “No matter the subject this one person feels to know it all and no one else can come close.”

    Now, you’re starting to speak the truth!

    “Perhaps that attitude is what kept this poster off of Hatzolah.”

    I would tell you the real reason, but I’m not the least bit interested in your opinion of me!

    “A little bit of humble pie is a good thing.”

    So about practicing what you preach?

  • #1031324

    Health
    Participant

    nishtdayngesheft -“It seems someone is broigus that he was not considered by hatzola even though he is a self described expert. Shows me that hatzola certainly has standards. And probably qualifications in addition to just passing an emt course.”

    Do you read minds? How do you know why I’m Broigus? You also don’t know the definition of standards and qualifications – perhaps look it up in a dictionary?

    “All I know is that I see dedicated volunteers that give up of themselves continually and they have saved thousands of lives, all for no pay.”

    Exactly and that’s what most people “know”. Sorry to disturb your little dream world! You can go back to sleep now.

    “That’s what I have seen with my eyes. What I have also seen are bitter illogical comments by posters who are the same.”

    And your eyes are correct – because why? Do you also proclaim to be a “self described expert”? You should look up the word illogical also because you don’t know the meaning. Nothing I posted was illogical. You might not agree with my opinion, but it doesn’t make it illogical.

    “There may be things that are not perfect, but in my eyes they are a lot more perfect than you.”

    Oh, I’m not perfect and I never thought I was, but tell me, since you’re the expert on Hatzolah (perhaps even a member, cooridnator), what are the “things that are not perfect” about them?

  • #1031325

    real-brisker
    Member

    Health – Enough already, GET A LIFE.

  • #1031326

    Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Hey RB, grab this rope and I’ll pull you out.

  • #1031327

    Health
    Participant

    RB -Whatever life I have it includes an English vocabulary.

    How about getting a vocab also? This way you can communicate with others.

  • #1031329

    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    There is a small measure of satisfaction when one makes an observation and it is shown to be completely accurate and spot on just a short while later.

  • #1031330

    Health
    Participant

    nishtdayngesheft -“There is a small measure of satisfaction”

    I’m glad that you’re satisfied, but I hope that this doesn’t play into any Ch’vs Gaivah that you might have.

    Kinda makes me wonder why s/o would even pick such a SN – basically you’re telling e/o – Nothing is your Business – Don’t shake the boat and do what you’re told.

    You see – I can psychoanalyze you too – just like you did to me.

    I try to do what I’m told also, but from what Hashem writes in his Torah, not because it’s PC.

  • #1031331

    shlishi
    Member

    Guys, please put all the bickering and quibbling behind and get back on topic here.

    How can we get H to strip abusive members who park in No Parking zones when not on call or drive through lights or against traffic laws when not on call, from their Parking Placard privileges and potentially membership in the organization altogether?

  • #1031332

    2scents
    Participant

    Try by documenting it, such as a photo. Then submit a claim. If it was an abuse, they will make note of it. The last thing hatzoloh needs is negative publicity.

  • #1031333

    2scents
    Participant

    Also, make sure that its a real abuse and not a legitimate call. Calls happen all the time at any place.

    Further more, if the member has parked illegally, and does not have authorization to do so. Hatzoloh ,ought not act. Since the member really as no privileges and is only hoping that an officer will not ticket him.

    Similar to EMT plates, which anyone with EMT license can easily obtain. It might help against getting a ticket, and some people even take the risk. So I don’t think that it’s hatzolohs business what risks this member takes.

  • #1031334

    shlishi
    Member

    Try by documenting it, such as a photo. Then submit a claim. If it was an abuse, they will make note of it. The last thing hatzoloh needs is negative publicity.

    Will H really do anything if a member of the public documents abuse and presents it to them? And how can it be submitted to H?

    Further more, if the member has parked illegally, and does not have authorization to do so. Hatzoloh ,ought not act. Since the member really as no privileges and is only hoping that an officer will not ticket him.

    Similar to EMT plates, which anyone with EMT license can easily obtain. It might help against getting a ticket, and some people even take the risk. So I don’t think that it’s hatzolohs business what risks this member takes.

    I think you are wrong on this point. Because a H member with VAS plates and a H parking placard in his windshield is not simply like a driver in the general public who illegally parks in a No Parking zone. A regular member of the public will in all likelihood get a ticket if he is parked illegally for an extended period of time. A H member will in all likelihood not get a ticket, due to his VAS plates and/or H placard in his windshield. The meter maids or cops don’t realize the parked H car is not on call. And the H member is indeed committing abuse since he is parking illegally with the idea that his H membership probably will save him from a ticket. So he in fact is utilizing his H membership in commission of his illegal parking.

    Also, if the abuse is driving illegally (as opposed to parking) while not on call, it is almost impossible to document it with photographs.

  • #1031335

    Borough Park Mensch
    Participant

    real-brisker, you imputed my criticism of VAS organizations to me allegedly having failed to gain admission to one even though you had no factual basis for saying that. When I corrected you, you countered by saying that I “knew” they would turn me down do I didn’t even apply.

    That makes you both a fraud and a liar. Let’s not even talk about how you conduct yourself with another Jew. What a disgrace!

    2scents, stop playing with words already! You’ve said or suggested over and over that no one should criticize a VAS because you might need them You’ve also said or suggested that since VAS members are doing good work, no one should criticize them.

    If you volunteer you are still subject to the rules of society whether that be malpractice lawsuits, parking regulations or even criticism from someone in your community.

    For the record, I don’t know Health and I have disagreed with him but he still has the right to make his criticisms. That you or anyone else would attack him rather than his criticisms speaks poorly of all of you.

  • #1031336

    2scents
    Participant

    BPM

    That is not true! I have written more then once and very clear, each organization and each individual is open for criticism.

    I really don’t know why you keep n repeating time after time that its my position that Hatzoloh cannot be criticized.

    Please stop that.

  • #1031337

    real-brisker
    Member

    BPM – Please explain where there is any “fraud or lie”. In my words.

  • #1031338

    Health
    Participant

    shlishi -“Will H really do anything if a member of the public documents abuse and presents it to them? And how can it be submitted to H?”

    I’m sorry to inform you – they won’t do anything. Don’t waste your time. My suggestion is document it and post it in this topic (or start a new topic) -this will get their attention. The first thing they’ll do is try to pressure YWN to shut the topic down. If this doesn’t work they might actually do something to avoid public embarassment.

    “Also, if the abuse is driving illegally (as opposed to parking) while not on call, it is almost impossible to document it with photographs.”

    I posted this before -this is the way to document it. You don’t need photos. You do need a scanner, though. If you see a guy using L & S and going through traffic and/or a red light, note his vehicle -make/model/color and take down his plate -along with date & time. Also note what org. he’s a member of – it will be somewhere visible in or around the car, at least it should be. You’ll have to be listening to the scanner the whole time – so if there are no calls recently (at least 15 -20 min) being put out in this area from that org. – you can be fairly sure that this guy is doing abuse. Without the scanner, they’ll just say – he was on a call and it got cancelled.

  • #1031339

    Borough Park Mensch
    Participant

    Posted by 2scents

    BPM

    That is not true! I have written more then once and very clear, each organization and each individual is open for criticism.

    I really don’t know why you keep n repeating time after time that its my position that Hatzoloh cannot be criticized.

    Please stop that.

    What kind of con artist are you. Here is just one of your previous posts:

    Posted by 2scents

    My point is, that you never know if you will one day be on the receiving end of Hatzoloh or not, each day a lot of people are and chances are that you or one of your family members will call us with an emergency. So why bash us? are we taking something away from you?

    Again, is English a problem for you? You may give lip service to saying you accept criticism but then you go ahead and negate everything with words like these. I offered you the opportunity to clarify this statement but you never have.

    No one and no organization is above criticism.

  • #1031340

    Borough Park Mensch
    Participant

    posted by real-brisker,

    BPM – Please explain where there is any “fraud or lie”. In my words.

    Certainly, let everyone see.

    posted by real-brisker,

    Health, TLKY, BPM – All you, sound like your [sic] trying to take revenge on your rejection to hatzolah.

    This is a lie. You are a liar. I have never been rejected from any volunteer ambulance service.

    posted by real-brisker,

    BPM – Aha, so you new [sic] you weren’t going to get accepted even before applying?

    This is fraud. I never “knew” anything about any organization’s hiring process since I have never been interested in applying.

    You commit fraud when you make the readers here believe you know me and you know my motiviations when in reality, you know nothing about me. You made this all up.

    You are a liar!

    Moderators:

    Why is real-brisker still permitted to post here?

    Why are you not enforcing your own rules?

    From http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/rules-of-the-ywn-coffee-room-please-read

    YWN Coffee Room Posting Rules

    Loshon Hara and other inappropriate speech

    2 – Loshon Hara will not be tolerated at all. We are not and will not become Lashon Hara central (keep this in mind when starting a thread).

  • #1031341

    Health
    Participant

    BPM -Well said.

    There is a common phenomenon in the world of when s/o wants to disagree and they don’t have any or anymore proof then they attack the other side personally. We in the Frum and Yeshivishe world also succumb to this. I’m sure I’ve fallen into this also at times, but at least I know it’s wrong. A lot of posters don’t even realize what they are doing is wrong. Like I said, this is so common in discussions even in the Frum world that people have no clue that you must stick to the actual subject(s) and personal attacks don’t make you right or anymore right.

  • #1031342

    2scents
    Participant

    BPM,

    You can call me what ever you want. I am no con artist and do not play with words. I have written more than once that each and every organization should be open for criticism.

    The fact that i have asked why you would bash hatzoloh, does not mean that hatzoloh should not be criticized when they do something wrong.

    What i have written was not pointed directly at you, rather to people in general who bash and talk negative about hatzoloh without even knowing what really goes on.

    This does not meant that there is no place for legitimate critic.

    are we clear on this?

  • #1031343

    Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    you must be joking

  • #1031344

    2scents
    Participant

    BPM,

    Interesting that jump on people for not using words correctly, however you call someone a liar when all they have written is that it SOUNDS like your trying to take revenge. Is this a lie? its an opinion!

    I am sure that you and others reading this have known that this is a pure opinion.

    Same is with your next example, its clear that he was joking. there is no way he should know the real truth and you surely knew it!

    Please stop calling other poster names, (con artist, liar) and then ask the moderators to remove their posts.

  • #1031345

    2scents
    Participant

    Health,

    You are right, this is a very common, so common that you do so on a continues basis.

    You always make sure to take a shot at the poster, be it this thread or other threads without posting anything with real substance.

    Most regular posters have already identified you as such. Thanks for pointing it out.

  • #1031346

    2scents
    Participant

    BPM,

    After being accused of being a Con Artist, I took a few moments to review this entire thread.

    No where was I trying to swindle or try to convince anyone into anything, no where did I try to make people think that I know more then I really do. I either states the facts or just kept quiet.

    In fact the original post about talking negative about hatzoloh WAS in fact directed towards our post. You made fun of jacness this is what you wrote:

    jackness,, where oh where are you? You fired off a bunch of diatribes which were answered and you haven’t been back?

    Perhaps, like some other VAS members, you’re busy playing police officer at gas lines like the one at 14th Avenue and 38th Street in Borough Park.

    (interesting, you can assume whatever you wish, however real brisker becomes a liar when assumes something about you..)

    This is where I posted that why talk down to someone that is offering his services to help you in a time of need. this was NOT about criticizing hatzoloh.

    After questioning my option, if A) hatzoloh may be criticized, B) if valid criticism exist to which I answered to the affirmative. you still keep on stating that I am twisting my words.

    I believe that I have been straight forward either with my opinions or with the facts.

    I have even went so far to explain certain things that people view as abuse.

  • #1031347

    Health
    Participant

    2scents -“You are right, this is a very common, so common that you do so on a continues basis.

    You always make sure to take a shot at the poster, be it this thread or other threads without posting anything with real substance.”

    What you just did is Mischapad B’klon Chaveiro -if you know what this means. Second of all, almost all the times I do it is in a defense of a personal attack on me. Have I ever started an attack? Probably, but it’s much rarer nowadays. So, I’ll Dan you L’caf Zecus -that you just see my negative posts without realizing almost always it’s a defense from a personal attack on me. So your opinion on me is wrong.

  • #1031348

    Health
    Participant

    2scents -“You can call me what ever you want. I am no con artist and do not play with words. I have written more than once that each and every organization should be open for criticism.

    The fact that i have asked why you would bash hatzoloh, does not mean that hatzoloh should not be criticized when they do something wrong.

    What i have written was not pointed directly at you, rather to people in general who bash and talk negative about hatzoloh without even knowing what really goes on.”

    I’m sorry -I agree with BPM. If s/o comes here and makes a statement that noone should bash Hatzolah when noone here went on a diatribe about them, it means basicaly you don’t have that right to criticize them. The fact that you’re now singing a different tune -doesn’t change the original meaning of your post.

    To post that and now say you were talking about those who don’t know what’s really going on – what made you think that the posters here didn’t know what’s going on? This was your projection.

    The same thing to project that s/o is complaining because they didn’t get on the VAS is also wrong.

    To illustrate -let’s say I decide a poster is a killer and I surmount this in a post -this would be wrong because I have no reason to assume this and if I’d be attacked by posters here, it would be rightfully so.

    So BPM has every right to call them whatever he chooses because they had no right to express such an opinion because they didn’t like his posts. There was no logical reason for them to come to such a conclusion.

    Your Neigous to why you’re always right is astounding. It’s funny how you can’t even begin to see the other side!

  • #1031349

    2scents
    Participant

    Health,

    I am sorry for the personal attack, my mistake I should not have personally attacked any poster.

  • #1031350

    2scents
    Participant

    Health,

    I have not made any statement that no one should criticize hatzoloh.

    I have just asked why one would bash someone that has volunteered to help him in a time of need.

    this has nothing to do about me being right or wrong. (not that astounding or funny after all).

  • #1031351

    farrocks
    Member

    2scents: How are you differentiating (based on the earlier comments on this thread) between criticizing Hatzalah and bashing Hatzalah?

  • #1031352

    2scents
    Participant

    Criticizing would be when your expressing yourself against hatzoloh for doing something wrong.

    Bashing would be to verbally attack hatzoloh for no valid reason.

    If you were following this thread, I think that you will see that this has been my position all along.

  • #1031353

    2scents
    Participant

    Farrocks,

    Since you are referring to earlier comments on this thread, please let me know which ones you are referring to. so that I can explain it better.

    I have more than once clearly stated, Hatzoloh as well as any other organization should be called out for any wrongdoings, however they should only be criticized if the issue is valid.

    Meaning, its is irresponsible for someone to start publicly criticize an organization for something, when in fact there was no wrongdoing.

  • #1031354

    real-brisker
    Member

    BPM – As 2scents clearly pointed out the obvious,which I apologize that i should have known you weren’t bright enough to realize. When I used the word “SOUNDS”, and that “Aha…”, I wasn’t saying anything more than how I am inturperting your hatzolah story. Does that mean it is the facts? Does that make me a liar or fraud?

    Please keep your offensive posts to yourself.

    ??? ??? ?? ???? ?????

  • #1031355

    real-brisker
    Member

    BPM

    “Moderators: Why is real-brisker still permitted to post here?

    Why are you not enforcing your own rules?

    From http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/ coffeeroom/topic/rules-of-the-ywn-coffee-room-please-read

    YWN Coffee Room Posting Rules

    Loshon Hara and other inappropriate speech

    2 – Loshon Hara will not be tolerated at all. We are not and will not become Lashon Hara central (keep this in mind when starting a thread).

    Please make up your mind! your getting me dizzy.

    If you are saying what I said is loshon hora, then why would you classify me as a liar???

  • #1031356

    shlishi
    Member

    2scents:

    1. You haven’t responded to my last comment. Can you address the points I raised?

    2. I just noticed this comment you made 6 months ago, on the below thread, saying you aren’t a member of Hatzalah since you were denied membership. What changed, as you now indicate you are a member?

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/joining-hatzalah

  • #1031357

    2scents
    Participant

    1. Will H do anything.

    I can’t answer for sure, as these stuff are not disclosed, however understanding the way the organization operates it is very likely that some thing will happen.

    Many complaints will definitely have an effect. It’s a disciplined organization, the will take measures to make sure members are disciplined.

    Best would be to speak to a coordinator. Call the office and let ask to,speak to a coordinator.

    2. Refuse to comment.

  • #1031358

    real-brisker
    Member

    Shlishi – 2scents, never said once in this thread which organization he volunteers for.

  • #1031359

    LOL

  • #1031360

    Ctrl Alt Del
    Member

    Every so often I check on this post to see just how stupid it is. Arguing over the internet is like running in the special Olympics, whether you win or lose you’re still retarded.

  • #1031361

    Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    I stopped reading this thread for obvious reasons but then I saw your name and was excited to see what you had to say. Now I’m sorry I did.

  • #1031362

    Ctrl Alt Del
    Member

    Syag, was that for me?? Sorry. Too many internet memes bouncing around in my head. I shouldn’t call anyone in this argument retarded. Its an insult to retarded people everywhere.

  • #1031363

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I clicked on this thread because syag was on it.

    I agree with Jackness.

  • #1031364

    Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    CAD – thanks,apology accepted 🙂

    Popa-

    I clicked on this thread because syag was on it.

    so not

    I agree with Jackness.

    than I can assume I don’t

  • #1031365

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Wow, I wasn’t expecting that reaction.

  • #1031366

    Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    You probably misread my tone, I thought it was pretty funny.

    🙂 <- that means ‘read with smirk or smile’

    (I should add taamei mikra but I don’t have davka writer)

  • #1031367

    SaysMe
    Member

    mods- why is this thread still open? Is there any purpose or benefit? Is there any kosher conversation coming out? I skimmed the last 2 pages and mostly saw a lot of venom, insults, onaas devorim, motzi shem ra and loshon hora. Please. This thread is turning into a horrible thing. Why keep it open?

  • #1031368

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    oh, sorry

  • #1031369

    shnitzy
    Member

    maskim and the name popa bar Abba is not funny

  • #1031370

    SaysMe
    Member

    umm i think my point was missed, but that wasnt meant to be posted.

    Syah- i did click on this thread cuz ur sn was as last poster

  • #1031371

    Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    well thanks, SaysMe, I do the same for you/yours.

    🙂

  • #1031372

    SaysMe
    Member

    uhoh 🙂

    but thanks. You were right here, it is fun to derail tense threads into random convo

  • #1031373

    LOL

  • #1031374

    AAA-111
    Participant

    I am not sure if anyone from this post will read this now but since I never used this site until now I want to clarify a few things about this topic.

    1) VAS plates do not give you any privilege but yo are correct, traffic officers look the other way for parking, That being said, there are many abuse of parking, mainly in Brooklyn with all sorts of vehicles, that are a major Chillul Hashem(desecration of G-D).

    Saying that they are abusing privileges is wrong on this issue since you are allowed to park at most locations with the PLACAD, not the plates. Where abuse DOES come in, is when they turn the placard over and cover the borough the placard covers so they can park in Manhattan or Queens if they are a Brooklyn member. The placards are meant for the volunteer to park close by to go on calls. If you are going into the city for dinner or a show, when you are no going on a call, yes, then you are abusing the privilege and relying on the fact that the police and traffic PD will not issue tickets when they see that. Many cops will though look at placards that are upside down, So beware!

    What is being abused or plain stupid, is the ORANGE EZ pass covers. Yes, it is not illegal because it is a cover, but there is no reason to use it unless you are trying to pretend you are a cop. Keep in mind, it is much thicker than the real EZ pass so most cops if they look no it is fake and you open the door for criminal impersonation. Having them and parking at a fire hydrant to run into schul is a big chutzpa because as a first responder, you should understand even more so, that yo put lives at risk if there were to be a fire and your vehicle is blocking the fire hydrant. There is no excuse to be at a fire hydrant. ZERO!

    It is however legal to park at a fire hydrant if you are IN your vehicle under the DMV code during the day, so double parking in front of one because you worry about a ticket is plain stupid because double parking is an automatic ticket. Unfortunately, in flatbush and boro park, it is abused by many, not just by VAS plat holders.

    As for the lights and sirens, it is an infraction to have them on if you are not authorized in doing so and a crime to use them to commit a crime. If you use them to go through lights, in theory you are not breaking any penal code but an infraction under the VTL code. But a cop can arrest you and make you go through the system just to make you pay.

    I hope that clears this up!

  • #1031376

    @2scents

    No one is asking the wives to take the license plates off. What we are asking them is DO NOT USE THE PLATES TO BREAK THE LAW by parking illegally at No Standing, no parking signs, and not putting money in the muni meters! This is an Aveira and I hope they gets ticketed.they’re taking away spots from real Handicapped people who ad allowed to park there with their legitimate handicapped plates.

  • #1031378

    If the point being made by some here that VAS plates are nothing more than a vanity plate entitling the bearer no more parking or driving privileges than any other run of the mill driver without any special plate is to be accepted (much like NY Volunteer Firefighter vanity license plates on a private vehicle simply mean the car owner happens to be a volunteer firefighter but that this private vehicle is not necessarily used for that purpose and is entitled to no privileges and the same with Army Veteran plates or Dentist or Physician vanity plates), then by extension that argument can be naturally extended to meaning that there is no objections to someone temporarily joining a tiny volunteer ambulance service for a very short period so he can qualify for VAS plates (which is nothing more than vanity anyways).

  • #1031379

    2scents
    Participant

    Francorachel3,

    I am not really sure to what you are responding, the last time i commented here was a while ago..

    However of course no one should break the law as it is illegal and is a big chillul hashem.

    On the other hand, people should be dan lkaf z’chus. I recently got yelled at for using lights and sirens “just to pass a busy intersection”, someone was cursing and yelling at me through their open window, do I really owe this person an explanation? that the parent of a child choking called back to cancel, so should i keep my lights on? or what else should I have done? What is a different unit responded that he if closer, should I not cancel? This happens quiet often.

    I am sure that there are some people that break the law, however they are not the majority, Hatzolah would never tolerate this, Hatzolah is under a lot of scrutiny and there are a lot of people that would pounce on any opportunity to inform and close down hatzolah.

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