November 11, 2012 at 9:24 pm #605829
I received an email last week informing us that there will be a collection of items for victims of Hurricane Sandy. It asked for things such as paper goods, flashlights, new or in excellent condition clothing, outerwear etc.
This morning our whole family got involved in going through our clothes and pulling out items in excellent condition that we thought the people who had lost everything could surely use. We put in winter coats (Shabbos and everday), beautiful Shabbos robes – barely used, scarves and gloves for kids – also in great condition. And yes, we also had some things with tags that had never been used at all.
My husband and I arrived at the shul where the collection is taking place. We had a carload of things. The first question we were asked? “Are these brand new?”. We told them we had new and slightly used but in excellent condition. We were told “Oh they are only accepting NEW items with tags in NY. They turned other things away already.” All the other stuff was to be put in a separate pile to go to the local chesed fund. What a let down! Yes, we are happy to donate to our local chesed fund – no question about that. But that we do anyway. Here we really wanted to help our fellow Jews in NY. I’m from NY. It just felt like a slap in the face!
November 12, 2012 at 3:39 am #910128
They probably received an overwhelming response (not just in your city but in all the places they collected from) and they already had an overabundance of clothing and material. So they obviously decided if they have so much brand new stuff already, it is better to help our fellow Yidden in desperate need with only the brand new stuff since they had so much of it to fulfill all their needs with brand new material.
November 12, 2012 at 6:06 am #910129
Giving regular people (many who are upper middle class, or even wealthy) used clothing is a slap in the face and adds insult to injury. When doing Chessed, it has to be Chessed through and through. Chessed isnt just doing a nice thing, good act blah blah. We must do Loving Kindness. Loving Kindess means giving the best (and certainly no less than what you would want for yourself.)
November 12, 2012 at 6:18 am #910130
WIY – I agree with you when you are giving to someone who had money and lost it. I think it is different when people are in crisis, homeless and have no possessions to their name. That is not a time to be selective, it is a time to make sure they are warm and clean. When the urgency is gone we can go back to catering to each ones needs in particular. Unless people a) aren’t quite as desperate as we’ve been told, or b) they have been fortunate enough to get so much clothing that they can afford pick and chose.
(I am obviously still referring to used but very respectable)
As far as what I would want for myself, in this type of emergency situation I can hardly imagine myself worrying about whether or not something was worn before.
November 12, 2012 at 6:52 am #910131
I had the same thing happen to me, and I took my info. from one of the comments on an article here on ywn. It especially bothered me that she didn’t add an updated comment once the needs changed. On the flip side, we do live in a very populated, warm, frum city, not to mention many more out of towners like you wanting to help. Once the call went out, I can understand how the goods far outnumbered what they could reasonably use as the number of families effected is B”H far less than the rest that wasn’t and is able to donate. They told my husband they needed help sorting and with tags only as it probably is a logistical nightmare. Asking for brand new stuff only doesn’t necessarily mean everyone is picky, it’s a way to limit the supply so they can manage the volume and avoid the junk some people dump. There are also very likely stores, manufacturers etc. that sent brand new stuff which, let’s not kid ourselves, most people prefer.
It still hurts, and I now need to figure out what to do with all those bags of stuff. Hope I managed to somehow “soften the blow” for you. Tizku lemitzvos regardless.
November 12, 2012 at 7:04 am #910132
A man came to visit a Rav that was not well to do the mitzvah of bikur cholim. WHen he got to the Rav’s house he saw the rav sitting by the table learning. He was all better. The man sighed and said, “What a shame that you are better, I wanted to do the mitzvah of bikur cholim.”
When we do a mitzvah, we need to remember that it is for the other person, not ourselves. You should be THRILLED that there is enough NEW clothing for these suffering people, and they do not need to further lose their dignity by wearing used stuff. I can’t imagine where a slap in the face comes in.
November 12, 2012 at 7:25 am #910133
I’m trying to figure out why everybody feels that used is such a boosha. Used clothing in really good condition does not look any different than new clothing that is washed once. There are many many people who make decent salaries who happily accept used clothing as it is a huge money saver. Often the used clothing is nicer stuff than they would buy for themselves. No one is chalila trying to make any of these victims feel bad, but I’m pretty sure that many of these people are pretty happy with hand me downs in their normal lives. Used does not mean old or torn or out of date. Much of it is very desirable.
I think in this case that probably the response was so overwhelming and so many people need so many things that a huge warehouse would be needed to store all the donations and a huge staff required to sort it and display it properly and since that is not realistic it makes more sense to actually give the people money and let them buy what they need. But please do not make people who take hand me downs feel as if it is a less than desirable thing to do.
November 12, 2012 at 11:03 am #910134
Gefen – same with me – I have things in good condition – the only thing “wrong” is that my kids outgrew them. If someone doesn’t want to take something that’s not new, that’s their choice, but when they’ve lost everything, shouldn’t they be the ones to decide?
November 12, 2012 at 11:33 am #910135
This is disheartening indeed. It resembles recipients of tzedaka who turn down “too small” gifts in contempt. Well, recipients are also obliged to do hessed. In this case, the right thing for the organizations to have done, in my opinion, would be to withhold the snide-sounding remarks, say thank you, and pass on the used stuff to other organizations that could send it on to those whose needs rule out all contempt.
November 12, 2012 at 11:43 am #910136
On Long Island, Sh’or Yoshuv Institute is giving new clothing donated by manufacturers and businesses to victims. I believe that the psychological impact of the disaster has victims so downtrodden that maybe a new item will lift their spirits just a bit. No one is poo-pooing donations. [We] still give to the National Jewish Council and the donations are taken gladly. The items from Sh’or Yoshuv are given with humility and kindness. On the whole, the situation is touchy. Accepting donated clothing and items when one has been self-sustaining his/her entire adult life is very difficult. It doesn’t mean that the person is being haughty, it goes to his/her being self-sufficient.
If thought of in that light, stepping into the victim’s shoes, then the thinking changes.
November 12, 2012 at 1:02 pm #910137
To many of the above disheartened and perplexed posters who wanted to give their I am sure fine condition clean hardly used clothes.
Please bear in mind that not everyone is as conscientious as you might be when considering what clothing is still good clean etc… If they accept used clothing half of it would have to be thrown out anyway and an enormous amount of time would be wasted having to look at each label and each item inspected.
Do not judge the people accepting the items or the people in need as I am sure most would take good condition clothes(I have relatives who were affected and I know they and their neighbors use hand me downs)
I agree with poster if you lose everything it only makes you feel further like a Nebach and refugee when you realize that you cannot afford clothing anymore.
Someone from a hard hit area told me they have to spend thousands on repair work,and they will not have enough to replace all contents( their furniture sefarim etc..) that were ruined.They do not have the money to do repairs without help and are now with relatives and borrowing money from them and applying to chesed funds.(something which he feels terrible about). If new clothes are available to be sent we can further avoid adding insult to injury.
They are constantly looking for volunteers to help with clean up work hosting families etc..Perhaps you volunteer for an hour instead or do some other type of help. Tizku Limitzvos!
November 12, 2012 at 2:16 pm #910138
( sorry meant to write above)When receiving used clothing for sanitary reasons recipients will want to wash them first or the chesed organizations will have to undertake that task before distribution. (even when I get hand me downs from relatives I wash them first)We are sending thousands of pounds of clothing to a place where electricity and water are at a premium and proper facilities are lacking it is not feasible to not only sort but also launder so many things.This lack of electricity and proper facilities is also a reason why (as of last week at least)the only large amount of stored food donations they accept are non-perishables while fresh food donations must be brought in daily.
November 12, 2012 at 2:56 pm #910139
@ Syag, Commonsense, and Naftush: Thanks so much for your insightful posts. I wish more people would see things that way.
@WIY: Giving clothing in excellent condition is a slap in the face? Excuse me? These were items that were barely used. As I said in my first post – good Shabbos coats, Shabbos robes and other things that were definitely in good condition and nobody should be ashamed to wear them! I would never give them old, torn, worn out things.
@poster: I really don’t think your story with the Rav applies here. In your story the Rav was better. In this situation, people are still in need. Nobody told us they had enough new clothes and didn’t need used. They just said they were not accepting used. If they feel it’s taking away their dignity, then that’s their problem. I am from New York and I hate to say this – but this shows their snobby attitude.
November 12, 2012 at 3:09 pm #910140
mammaleh – thanks
Poster, you are correct that if they have an abundance they should only take the new stuff. I work in a gmach that is VERY selective because they are fortunate enough to have the selection. What made some of us feel bad was not that they didn’t need our stuff, it was that we were given the impression that even though they have NOTHING, they are still being picky. Knowing they are turning it down due to an overflow is awesome and not an issue for me at all.
November 12, 2012 at 3:43 pm #910141
I wonder why people have so much extra clothing that is in used but excellent condition as it was “barely used”. Do people buy clothing for one-time use? Really? Are these people with money to burn?
November 12, 2012 at 3:43 pm #910142
Syag- once again, I like your post. It’s all in how it’s presented. Yes – if they have been getting an abundance of donations, BARUCH HASHEM. But if they’re turning it down just because it’s not BRAND NEW, then that’s another story.
We were specifically told at the drop off place that New York is ONLY ACCEPTING NEW ITEMS. No mention that they have gotten so much and can’t handle so much more.
Anyway I’m glad to give to our local chesed fund just as well. It’s all for a good and worthy cause.
Naftush – one more comment on your post. You mentioned people who turn down gifts that are “too small”. My husband has been upset so many times in shul when meshulachim come over (while he’s in the middle of shmone esrei- but that’s a different story) and asked for a donation. He will pull out what’s in his pocket which in our financial situation is not a lot. He then gets a look of disgust and “that’s all you can give??” He feels like saying -“if you don’t like it, give it back and I’ll give it to someone who will appreciate it”.
November 12, 2012 at 4:11 pm #910143
gefen: The problem is the Chicago collection people didn’t explain the reason well. It is because there is an overabundance of donations that they are limiting what can be contributed to the better items (as there is enough of those to cover the entire need.)
November 12, 2012 at 4:36 pm #910144
farrocks: Thanks for explaining. Yes – it would have been much better had it been told to us the right way.
I am glad to know that there is an overabundance of donations. It shows how we all care for klal yisroel.
November 12, 2012 at 5:10 pm #910145
The main resource that is needed is cash. But other things are needed as well. For example: (unused) appliances, especially washers and dryers; boilers; hot water heaters and the like – anything of value that is usually kept in the basement is in short supply. Another example: If anyone can donate (unused) Seforim – items like a Shas, Rambam, Mishnayos, etc. – Seforim that are expensive to replace, and in good condition.
The damage people have sustained is devastating. Besides uninhabitable homes, untold damage to property, cars destroyed etc, people’s personal losses are heartrending. Women lost their jewelry collections, family photographs and memorabilia, and of course, and dozens of personal Seforim libraries totally wiped out.
November 12, 2012 at 5:23 pm #910146
gefen -There is actually an article about how the Goyishe relief orgs. are having a big problem with the wrong stuff being donated. People only want unopened goods. Not only that, they don’t need vases or lamps. Maybe not you, but some think that this is a good opportunity to clean house.
The best donation is cash. The victims can use it for what they really need. After that unopened or brand new goods, such as food, water and clothing, even generators. Everything else donate to those boxes in the supermarket parking lots or sell to those companies like “cash for goods” or some Israeli Tzedakas take this stuff. Even if they don’t have an overabudance of stuff, some orgs. will never take used, even slightly used. It’s a legal problem along with a health problem because you might be giving infested goods. Infestation with lice, bed bugs, etc. is very common even amongst Frum people.
Btw, even if you dump stuff they need to these orgs., like I just mentioned, it costs the org. between $15 -$25 to get it to the victims -so the orgs. need money donations.
November 12, 2012 at 5:26 pm #910147
I would say that there is an overabundance in the short term, meaning that right now there have enough to give people things to get started, but I can imagine that replacing whole wardrobes/kitchen appliances and utensils for a small family of only 4 is a tremendous outlay, especially for people who have numerous other things that they are missing. I would imagine that there is an abundance in this short time span, but there will be a need for your wonderful slightly used items in the next several months when people really get a sense of what they’re missing.
I almost feel like it is with a woman who gives birth. When she comes home she has numerous friends offering to bring meals and this can last a couple of weeks or so, but when the baby is 4 or 5 weeks old and she’s still hardly managing, extremely exhausted and hardly has time to prepare the food, much less than shopping for what is necessary for the house, it is at that point when a friend who pops in with an unexpected meal or sends an older daughter to take the older kids out for a couple of hours in the afternoon so she can rest and revitalize herself for the evening bedtime routine, that is when she can really appreciate such an effort. It’s not that she didn’t appreciate it before, it’s just that now the flow of help has stopped, but she still needs it and when it shows up it’s so wonderful.
I would bet that some of the chesed organizations would still find a lot of people needing things a few weeks down the road but right now it is overwhelming to deal with all of the various donations and sorting through everything to determine who needs what and everything. Hopefully they will take that into consideration and make a renewed effort in a couple of months or even in the spring when people will find themselves without even their clothes from last year to fall back on when the weather changes.
November 13, 2012 at 2:57 pm #910148
@ wanderingchana “Gefen – same with me – I have things in good condition – the only thing “wrong” is that my kids outgrew them. If someone doesn’t want to take something that’s not new, that’s their choice, but when they’ve lost everything, shouldn’t they be the ones to decide?” EXACTLY!!!! Thank you for understanding it the way I do. I was beginning to think I’m crazy (well maybe I am, but not for this 😉 lol)
@ shlishi “I wonder why people have so much extra clothing that is in used but excellent condition as it was “barely used”. Do people buy clothing for one-time use? Really? Are these people with money to burn?”
Take ur pick:
A) We are massively wealthy and change our wardrobe every 6 months.
B) Maybe, just maybe,(as wanderingchana also pointed out) kids outgrow things before they had a chance to use them more than once or twice
C) Did you ever hear of impulse buying? That’s when you buy something that you think you absolutely love and must have. Then it sits in the closet. Waste of money? Sure. But it does happen. So yes these are new items that can be used by someone else.
D) A person can lose or gain weight after having worn some items only once or twice and it doesn’t pay to have them altered.
November 13, 2012 at 3:31 pm #910149
Yes, people who lost everything are certainly within their prerogative to decide what is or isn’t acceptable for themselves and their families.
November 13, 2012 at 5:13 pm #910150
grouchy old manMember
when i was a boy. there was a storm. we lost everything. even the cat. i would have been happy to take anything after that. this is the problem with our generation- too much stuff- not enough Hesed. why dont you give it to another organization- give it to the goyim- they would love it.
November 13, 2012 at 5:30 pm #910151
gefen -“EXACTLY!!!! Thank you for understanding it the way I do. I was beginning to think I’m crazy”
You’re not crazy, just extremely haughty. I explained to you in my post above why they can’t take used items.
Did you even read it or you just didn’t understand it?
November 13, 2012 at 8:03 pm #910152
Health – If you would know me personally, you would know I am certainly not haughty! (I would also be very insulted by your comment) If anyone is acting haughty, it’s you. You’re also very insulting! Yes, I understand your post. Thank you for insinuating that I’m an idiot.
I hear and understand all the points you made. I also agree that money is the best donation, which, yes, we did that too.
But just as the person I quoted – I also feel ppl should be able to choose what they will take or not.
And again – it was presented to us in a negative way when we brought the goods for collection. It sounded as though the New Yorkers were being very haughty.
November 13, 2012 at 10:03 pm #910153
Gefen: I was at the local collection in my town on Sunday afternoon. To me it looked like a lot a people took the opportunity to get some early spring cleaning done.
November 13, 2012 at 10:31 pm #910154
Gefen -“But just as the person I quoted – I also feel ppl should be able to choose what they will take or not.”
You can feel what you want, but you’re Wrong. These orgs. can’t put themselves out on a limb to accept used things because of health problems which would make them legally liable.
“And again – it was presented to us in a negative way when we brought the goods for collection. It sounded as though the New Yorkers were being very haughty.”
They don’t have to explain to e/o that used stuff can be infested because then people like you would open their mouthes. So they just say -“We don’t accept used goods.”
And btw, I’m the furthest thing from a New Yorker, even though I live in Lakewood, a suburb.
November 13, 2012 at 10:34 pm #910155
SO glad that disappeared.
November 13, 2012 at 11:17 pm #910156
I guess its back.
Health – you have got to be kidding. Health problems that would make them legally liable? This isn’t about health issues. This is about people emptying their closets and storage bins into a truck and calling it helpful.
For the last month I have been so impressed with how beautifully you have controlled your comments towards others and decreased your angry hurtful comments. I hope it is something you will again consider.
btw – New Jersey isn’t as far from NY as it may seem.
November 14, 2012 at 1:23 am #910157
Syag Lchochma – “Health problems that would make them legally liable? This isn’t about health issues. This is about people emptying their closets and storage bins into a truck and calling it helpful.”
What I was trying to explain was the other side. The orgs. CANNOT accept used items because they could be infested. Passing on infested goods would make the Orgs. liable for the infestation.
“btw – New Jersey isn’t as far from NY as it may seem.”
Really? I didn’t know that….
I was saying – I didn’t grow up in the NY/NJ area.
November 14, 2012 at 3:13 am #910158
You seem to have left out a line
November 14, 2012 at 4:05 pm #910159
Health – I’m so glad ur in a position to judge that I am WRONG.
Just a word of advice (I know, I know – you don’t need my advice)-calm down- ur getting all heated up and getting nasty. Be careful so you can continue to use the name health because you can chas v’shalom compromise ur health if ur blood pressure goes up. CHILL!
btw – I don’t care where you grew up. You do need an attitude adjustment.
In times like this, we should be working on ben adam l’chaveiro. Which by the way, is what we were trying to do by sending things to NY NJ.
November 14, 2012 at 5:49 pm #910160
Midwesterner – I assume we were at the same collection place and I hear what you are saying. However I did see a lot of ppl bringing things with tags. In fact they looked like they had just come from shopping at the mall or target. What a truly amazing mitzvah!
I personally (my family included) were not doing early spring cleaning as we had just recently gotten rid of stuff (in fact,a lot of unusable things were thrown out – I would never give certain things away for someone else to use or wear if it’s in such bad condition). I must say, some of the things we brought to the collection place, we had to think twice as to whether or not we were still going to want them. But we decided it’s more important to do a mitzvah – Please know – I am NOT trying to sound holy by saying that. Doing a mitzvah with gaiva sort of cancels itself out IMHO. I’m just making a point (not so much to you – but more at another poster who is bent on criticizing and insulting me). Also we are not in a position to go out and buy new things so we did the best we could.
Anyway, it’s amazing how many ppl had such wonderful intentions and wanted to help out in such a horrible crisis. It was hearwarming to see so many ppl there donating and volunteering their time to help out.
November 14, 2012 at 6:18 pm #910161
gefen -“Health – I’m so glad ur in a position to judge that I am WRONG.”
I’m in that position because I can see the orgs. POV. I was hoping that you would too, but I guess Not. I definitely tried to explain it numerous times.
“Just a word of advice (I know, I know – you don’t need my advice)-calm down- ur getting all heated up and getting nasty. Be careful so you can continue to use the name health because you can chas v’shalom compromise ur health if ur blood pressure goes up. CHILL!”
Just a word of advice from me (I know, I know – you don’t need my advice), before you start coming on a public forum to Diss orgs. who are trying their best -how about Danning these Orgs. L’caf Zecus? Perhaps there is a good reason why they didn’t accept used goods?
“btw – I don’t care where you grew up. You do need an attitude adjustment.”
I don’t think I’m the one who came to YWN and started a topic cursing out others, even if you were subtle. So perhaps this “attitude adjustment” is really Kol Hapoisel B’momo Poisel?
“In times like this, we should be working on ben adam l’chaveiro.”
I agree. So about looking in the mirror first?
November 14, 2012 at 6:22 pm #910162
Syag Lchochma -“You seem to have left out a line”
I left it out on purpose.
November 14, 2012 at 8:04 pm #910164
As long as you read it. Internalizing is optional at this stage.
November 14, 2012 at 8:23 pm #910165
Health – I came here CURSING others????????? I’m dissing organizations??????? Chas V’Shalom! Are you for real?????? Obviously you really don’t understand my posts or read them all the way through. I’m not going to repeat myself or explain my posts(where, by the way, I did say that I see the point that ppl like you were making). I also thanked one of the posters for explaining it to me.
Anyway, I certainly don’t owe you any explanations for what I’ve said. I have a clear conscience and I’ve HAD ENOUGH OF YOU.
November 15, 2012 at 4:47 pm #910167
gefen -“Health – I came here CURSING others????????? I’m dissing organizations??????? Chas V’Shalom! Are you for real?????? Obviously you really don’t understand my posts or read them all the way through.”
Maybe You don’t read your Own posts?!?!
You call this a compliment?!? –
“What a let down! Yes, we are happy to donate to our local chesed fund – no question about that. But that we do anyway. Here we really wanted to help our fellow Jews in NY. I’m from NY. It just felt like a slap in the face!”
When s/o accuses others of wrongdoing that never occurred – this is called putting down others – whether you’ll admit it or not.
November 25, 2012 at 5:47 am #910168
Health – I don’t mean to be disrespectful, but I really think you can talk (or type rather) to Gefen with some mentchlachkeit. I personally understand both sides of the story, but I have to stick up for the one who writes with decency. Unfortunately, I can’t say that you are doing so. Klal Yisroel is in a time of tzarus – as we have been many times before. I don’t think writing the way you are will help our situation any. So I ask you, as well as others who may talk harshly to others, to please try to speak softly – with civility. Before you speak, please be careful that it won’t hurt others. I don’t mean for you to stop speaking your thoughts, but to do it in a respectful manner.
December 2, 2012 at 2:52 am #910170
Giggle Girl – thanks so much. You are so sweet and you sound intelligent. Your head and heart are in the right place.
But as I mentioned in my last post on this thread – I’ve had enough of him. It’s not worth my precious time and effort to deal with one arrogant poster. I have better things to do (like cursing other posters and bashing organizations here one the cr. 😉 right?)
Anyway the other posters here were all mentchlich whether or not they saw my point. As one example – Farrocks (and some others as well) explained the situation to me in a clear and respectful manner. This made me understand it in a different light. In fact, I believe I thanked him (I’m not going back to check all the posts now but I hope I did). If not – thank you Farrocks and all the other posters who were so pleasant to hear from.
December 2, 2012 at 4:46 am #910171
gefen, I think a lot of us wanted to write the same, it’s brave she that actually took the courage. I commend her for it.
December 2, 2012 at 4:25 pm #910172
Zeeskite – thanks 🙂 You’re one of the nice posters on the cr with whom I like talking. And yes – I too commend Giggle girl for her post.
Giggle girl – btw, notice how he insulted you and basically all females by saying your sn is redundant. So like he says “don’t judge a book by its cover” – his name does not contribute to anyone’s health. 😉
But anyway let’s take his insult as a compliment instead and say yes – we females (be it girls or women) are a happy group, not bitter and nasty.
December 3, 2012 at 12:47 am #910174
gefen- sending some encouragement to stick to your desire to not reply to that post, cuz i’m not sure i’d be able to not defend myself…
Mods, is this conversation not completely done?? Please stop this from spiralling further downward
December 3, 2012 at 1:59 am #910175
Health, I think for the sake of your health and ours, maybe, just maybe, the vast majority of members’ view should be considered. ???? ?? ???? ???, and ???? ????? ???? ??????.
Try it. (can’t tell you from experience, never done it) Watch it work. Try a softer approach. Be fascinated with its results!!!
December 3, 2012 at 4:09 am #910176
SaysMe – I totally agree with you – I had and have absolutely no intention of responding to his post. Like I said, he’s not worth my time and energy. He’s just getting meaner to try to rile me up. Well guess what, it’s not going to work. I’m actually finding it funnier as we go along. He also thinks he can speak for most posters by saying they can see right through me. Well, he’s got me all wrong and I don’t care what he says. BTW – I haven’t seen any posters stick up for his snide remarks.
So I will end this post here thanking all the nice cr members.
Zeeskite – thanks again for your words of wisdom and kindness.
December 3, 2012 at 7:37 am #910178
mods???? This is getting uglier by the post! Please! Isnt this part of moderating?
December 3, 2012 at 8:18 am #910179
I must interject. It seems like you’re writing the way I did before Mommy “brained” me.
As I wrote before, try the other way. MUCH SWEETER. Try a calmer, peaceful attitude. Try it first in written communication. Watch and be fascinated with the results.
Let feelings of serenity, contentment, gladness overcome you as you change your style of writing. Let it continue on with your oral communications. Watch your entire being transform for the better as you progress in changing your attitude of human communications. Watch others’ admiration, respect, esteem for your new respectful standing.
????? ????? ????? ?? ?????? – it’s for real!!!
Watch it all happen!!!
December 3, 2012 at 2:04 pm #910180
SaysMe – I hear what you’re saying about closing the thread. But don’t worry, I don’t think anyone is really taking him seriously. I’m not anyway. He just wants attention.
Zeeskite – Nice try but I don’t think we are dealing with someone who is going to take your advice. It’s sad.
Maybe we should all just ignore it already.
- The topic ‘Very Disheartened’ is closed to new replies.