Is there a legitimate minhug from the earlier doros of the father and mother walking down their child, instead of the standard father/father for the Choson and the mother/mother for the Kallah?
Is there a legitimate minhug from the earlier doros of other relatives (grandparents, siblings, children) walking down the aisle?
1)Yes and 2)no.
The second was picked up from the chu__
Mmother/mother and father/father are standard? I see that about the same as mother/father and mother/father...
For US it is standard that PARENTS walk their children down. That is what we pray for that WE are zoche to walk OUR children to the chupah.
In some chasidus like Chabad (i think), the grandparents not only walk down with the children, the all walk around the chosson.
aso hut men uf gevagsen.
tums: I don't know why you think one or the other is standard.
Truthbetold: You know it comes from the church, or you just assume anything your family doesn't do is so krum it must come from the church?
popa: I think its standard in the sense it is the more traditional mingug followed by most of Klal Yisroel throughout all the previous doros. Do you think both methods were equally done over the centuries?
I have no idea what was done over the doros. I wasn't there. Were you? Did you see it written somewhere?
PBA: Actually, my family does do it.
I heard it from two sources that I doubt ever knew each other. An 80 rebbe, as well as from a friend from Tennessee father (would also be about 80 now).
I'm not sure I trust that every 80 year old knows where every minhag comes from. Maybe it was done differently in different towns in europe?
I hear you. I assumed it’s accurate since it came from two very different places
I hear. Maybe. I don't know, I just know that today both ways are completely normal.
tbt, I think they are accurate. They didn't just both blame the chu_ch out of thin air, you don't think.
popa, unfortunately some avoda zora crept into certain quarters. That doesn't make it any more Jewish.
today dressing non-tznius is completely normal. doesnt make it right. im not saying this is the same, just that something being "completely nornal" doesnt make it kosher.
its very normal and accepted that they walk dowm father/father,> mother/mother
I walked down the aisle at my younger sisters chasuna, because she wanted me to. My older sister adamantly refused that any siblings walk down. In both instances I chalked it up to making the kallah happy. For the record, I was 15 by my older sisters wedding and 21 by the younger and I asked my Rebbe if there was any issue in doing so, he told me, just walk down, don't do anything stupid :)
mabey to you
There is kmpwn sory about Reb Yaakov Kamenitzky Zt"L
He was asked what his minhag was & he answered "Whatever the Mechutanim want"
By Stoliner chasidim theChoson/Kalah are escorted by their own parents.
In both instances I chalked it up to making the kallah happy.
And that's the bottom line.
By my wedding, I was escorted down by my father and father-in-law. Please note that this isn't because of any special minhag that I have (I had none in this area), but rather because by my wedding, my divorced parents would have felt uncomfortable walking down together -- so even though that would have been my preference, I agreed to the other way. In the end, to me, it wasn't terribly important and certainly wasn't worth making anyone (and especially my parents) uncomfortable over.
By my sister's wedding they were apparently okay with it, since they both walked her down the aisle.
As for my kids, I'm going to do whatever makes them happy. If they want me to walk them down with Eeees, I'll happily do it. If they want me to walk them down with their future father-in-law, I'll happily do that too. It's their big day, not mine, and their wishes should be respected.
The Wolf
my divorced parents would have felt uncomfortable walking down together
I've heard that some people have an issue with a divorced "couple" walking the chosson or kallah to the chupah; some kind of negative segulah. I don't know much about it, though.
As for my kids, I'm going to do whatever makes them happy. If they want me to walk them down with Eeees, I'll happily do it. If they want me to walk them down with their future father-in-law, I'll happily do that too. It's their big day, not mine, and their wishes should be respected.
You have a great attitude. The problem arises when the mechutanim have a different idea than either the other set or the kids. I hope you don't encounter that.
My daughter way back when was in shiduchim she casually and foolishly said that she wouldn't "shtelzich" on such an issue. I very sweetly turned to her and made it very clear to her that "this isn't hers to give away".
We have only one daughter and I wasn't going to allow my daughter to steal my husband's right to walk her down to the chupah. It wasn't up to her to negotiate this. And I certainly worked hard enough to raise my boys that I wasn't giving that away either. Turns out if worked out well because OUR mechutanim felt the same way.
well meaning busy body:
I think the Mekor of parents walking the Choson / Kallah down is brought in the Zohar (not that I know how to read it)
aries: If the other side had a strong minhug the other way, you would have broken your daughter's shidduch over it?
foolishly said that she wouldn't "shtelzich" on such an issue.
What's foolish about that? I would have thought a happy marriage, peace, and good relations with the in-laws are a worthwhile cause?
A bigger kasha is where did the white dress come from?
If the other side had a strong minhug the other way, I highly doubt we would have seen eye to eye on other things, and I highly doubt that the shidduch would have worked out to begin with. The kids were matim to each other for a good reason.
If the other side had a strong minhug the other way, I highly doubt we would have seen eye to eye on other things, and I highly doubt that the shidduch would have worked out to begin with. The kids were matim to each other for a good reason.
Unfortunately, many fights, and broken marriages, have been caused by such thinking. I would hope (and expect) that your attitude is only theoretical, and that if such a situation would ever arise, you would be above it.
aries: Wow. That's all I can say.
I think her point is, that it isn't the childs thing to give away. Its something that should be discussed with parents.
The father escorting his daughter to the chassan is what is called "chuppah" according to a number of rishonim. If a father is escorting his daughter, should the other father accompany them or does it make sense for the mother to do so. There are numerous minhagim to try and me makaim as many opinions of the rishonim as possible. Its best that everone follow their family minhag.
apushatayid: are those Rishonim you quoated talking about a girl under 12 by any chance? Thanks
where did the white dress come from
On good authority from someone in the bridal business Many Rebbish families are makpid on not white.
Reb Hershele Spinker זצ''ל 's family insists on white
Mekoros???
I very sweetly turned to her and made it very clear to her that "this isn't hers to give away".
I assume you mean that you would threaten to not pay for the wedding if she didn't walk down with your husband. I don't know how else you could enforce your will.
I also don't know why this would mean enough to you that you would disown your daughter over it.
If my parents threatened to not pay for my wedding unless I acceded to their demands, I would probably just give in, but if it was part of an ongoing abuse of power, I would probably just make myself a small wedding and forget about them.
I'm glad it didn't have to become that with you. It's nice to be on good terms with your kids and know your grandchildren.
I think her point is, that it isn't the childs thing to give away. Its something that should be discussed with parents.
Yes, but it's not something that worth ruining a shidduch over. It's not even worth the bad feelings that may arise.
The Wolf
pba, as always you ASSUME too much.
Wolf, obviously when we looked for a shidduch we looked in the pool of people who were similar to us and had similar hashkafas. We did not have ANY machlokes with our mechutanim. It was smooth sailing from the beginning.
Why go shopping in a store you can't afford or one that just doesn't fit your lifestyle? Stick with something that fits from the start.
Ok, tell us how you intended to enforce it.
Would you lock her in a closet?
obviously when we looked for a shidduch we looked in the pool of people who were similar to us and had similar hashkafas.
Why would someone's family minhug to walk to the chuppah differently than you want to, be a major difference in hashkafa? (Some people who have this minhug are otherwise not Chassidish in practice.) And what would happen if a particular shidduch were suitable for your child but the parents did have different hashkafas than you? You would sacrifice your child's happiness to find mechutanim suitable for you? or to be able to walk her down with her father (as meaningful as that is to you)?
What is the reason we stand for the Kallah and not the Choson?
Can you not read? There wasn't an issue. She was not dating anyone at the time. It was not her place to make the decision. It was her place to tell the boy that she was dating that this was our shita and he would let his parents know. He had the same opportunity to tell his parents he doesn't want to lose the shidduch as much as she did.
We are NOT chasidish. She did NOT date Chasidish boys, and so this was NOT an issue. It was our mechutanim's first chasunah as well and they felt the same way.
What exactly is your problem? Have you made a wedding yet? We have made three B"H and had no problems.
What is the reason we stand for the Kallah and not the Choson?
I don't ever remember seeing that.
Aries: if it was an otherwise perfect shidduch, but the guy's parents let you know after the engagement (since it wasnt discussed beforehand) they have a strict (non chasidish) minhug of father/father and mother/mother only, and the minhug goes back hundreds of unbroken years in their mishpacha, and they cant be the first to break it in hundreds of years, you would break your daughters engagement with the guy she loves and wants to marry, and make a big stink and big machlokes over it??
SHOCKING!!!
We stand up for anyone doing a mitzvah.
canine:
She's a very smart person. She would probably employ some technique known as negotiation. Dealing civilly with people. She's good at that.
Daas u seem to try and negate everything i say is this something personal or am just totally wrong in everything i say?
It says in the mishna that on Tu B'Av the girls would dress in white to try and attract a husband. Maybe that's where the white dress comes from.
This actually happened to us. It was our first child getting married, so we didn't know to even ask about it to the shadchan ahead of time. When we went to meet the parents for the first time , it came up- to our great shock. We did not break the shidduch. It was a disappointment to us not to walk our child down together, and is probably something we will ask about as part of the preliminary investigation in the future.
I find this highly distressing on two counts.
Firstly, it seems some posters consider this important enough to do research into it beforehand. Please tell me you are kidding.
Secondly, it seems some posters think it is ok to assert this much control over your children. This sounds heavily excessive and borderline abusive. Then you wonder why your son is abusing his wife.
Daas u seem to try and negate everything i say is this something personal or am just totally wrong in everything i say?
Chas v'shalom! Certainly nothing personal, and in this case, I wasn't negating what you said, just noting that I've never observed it. That doesn't mean such a minhag doesn't exist, just that I personally don't remember seeing it.
Now that I've explained that I'm not negating what you said about walking to the chuppah, does that mean I've negated what you said about me negating what you said? :)
I find this highly distressing on two counts.
Firstly, it seems some posters consider this important enough to do research into it beforehand. Please tell me you are kidding.
Secondly, it seems some posters think it is ok to assert this much control over your children. This sounds heavily excessive and borderline abusive. Then you wonder why your son is abusing his wife.
If it's important enough to break up a shidduch and make a huge machlokes out of, then it's important enough to do research into, I guess.
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