we need government paid tuition- let our voice be heard

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  • #606311

    menacheme
    Member

    I have made a petition to the whitehouse.gov and I was wondering if

    you could promote it (and at least sign it with a few freinds ) or if

    you could make a similar petition. My goal is 150 signatures so that

    at least it is seen on whitehouse.gov

    please take a moment to sign. It is unfair to all of us. The government gives more than $9000 a child in public school. We all struggle to pay tuition and the schools struggle to come up with what they decide we can not afford. I do not care if this gets nowhere , our voice needs to be heard!!!!!

    Until there are 150 signatures it is only accessible through the link

    below, If some sends an email to educationproirityone@gmail.com they

    will get this message with the link

    #908352

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Tution vouchers are illegal based on state laws not federal laws. It is illegal according the NY constitution to pay for private school tutions (It has nothing to do with jews and was there because of Anti-Catholism in the late 19th Century, they are called Blaine Amendments)

    Until the Blaine Amendment is repealed, vouchers will never be legal (Its is very difficult to change us constitution)

    #908353

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    I meant New York State Constituition, not US constituion which is also hard to change

    #908354

    farrocks
    Member

    This is a State issue, not so much a Federal issue. You need to fight on the State level.

    #908355

    Not a possibility unless you shred the constitution.

    The Catholic community has this struggle as well and they dont go whining that the government hates them for not paying their bills.

    Torah education is a sacrifice but the schools should be giving the parents more for their money.

    #908356

    arc
    Participant

    “Torah education is a sacrifice but the schools should be giving the parents more for their money.”

    This again. What more should they give without raising costs?

    #908357

    iced
    Member

    The Catholics in fact do, and long have, been fighting for tuition payments from the government.

    #908358

    arc
    Participant

    School taxes would go up a lot if the 5.5 million students (about 500K in NY) were added.

    #908359

    menacheme
    Member

    Yes, I know there is a very very small chance that it will change anything. It was also a very slim chance that Romney would win, yet those who thought it would be better for America or Israel voted for him. We need to make our voice heard. It needs to make headlines. v’chuli hy v’ula something will change.

    #908360

    @iced, The U.S. government is not interested in subsidizing education that they do not control. The Catholics have dealt with their tuition crisis by consolidating their operations and combining schools. They also get subsidized by the local Diocese in an effort to keep their tuition figures waaaaaaaaay below ours.

    None of those options are available to us since we dont really get along with each other too well and most parents live in paralyzing fear of exposing their child to the wrong “type” of Jew.

    @arc,

    The schools can provide a better secular education with minimal spending by not treating it as a joke. They can foster an enviroment where the talmidim arent ridiculed for taking it seriously and where the teachers arent treated with utter disdain and maybe even a modicum of respect.

    #908361

    menacheme
    Member

    I do not think taxes need to go up. The government spends $9,679 per student in public school. If they cut that by a fraction of a percent it would cover our schools tuition. In addition, if we did not have to worry about tuition more people could be honest about their income and survive which in itself would produce more revenue.

    #908362

    menacheme
    Member

    “Torah education is a sacrifice but the schools should be giving the parents more for their money.” -right on the money

    I put four thousand dollars that I did not have on a credit card, and the school said they had to raise the rest of the money. I believe them. It sad that I had to go into deficit. It sad that they had to raise money.

    I also heard of someone (second hand report) that defaulted on their Mortgage because they could not afford their children’s tuition. That in my eyes is too big of a sacrifice that they had to make. May Hashem bless them, But things can not continue how they are

    #908363

    lesschumras
    Participant

    If yeshivas want public money, their budgets should be subject to the same public scrutiny that the local districts are. How would you keep taxpayers who are not parents off the boards?

    #908364

    akuperma
    Participant

    He who pays the fiddler calls the tune. What if the government says that those who accept our money have to teach the subjects our way? What if they insist that 17 year olds be vacinated against sexual diseases (note: pregnancy is a sexual disease from the government’s perspective, and they have long term vacines)? What if they insist that the school teach that “gay” is normal.

    Our ancestors always had the option to accept government money in return for raising our children the way the government wants. We always said no (at least, our immediate ancestor said no – our cousins who said yes eventually assimilated into the general population).

    #908365

    farrocks
    Member

    The schools must raise tuition costs if you want more from them.

    #908367

    arc
    Participant

    Crisis,

    Better secular departments exist and they aren’t uncommon either. You don’t have to sacrifice frumkeit (not chasidish) for it. As a parent you can demand they take it more seriously and set an example with your child by taking it seriously.

    Catholic school tuition is similar to yeshivos. But You cant compare Catholic schools for several reasons but mainly because the Archdiocese set up is such that people donate there and they subsidize the schools. (it might be similar lhavdil to chasidish schools)

    #908368

    Ðash®
    Participant

    The Catholics in fact do, and long have, been fighting for tuition payments from the government.

    But the Catholic school system is heavily subsidized by the diocese (or archdiocese) so parent involvement in the fight is much lower than for other private schools.

    #908369
    #908370

    Ðash®
    Participant

    I just copy it from an earlier post.

    #908371

    In every European country, the government subsidizes education in public and religious schools.

    And yes, schools have to comply with certain government rules. But in fact, those schools that do not comply not only get no money – they also lose their right to exist.

    Which is fine with me, as long as they don’t go too far with their demands.

    #908372

    The only way that I would support vouchers is if the government were able to crack down on the frum schools and hold them to a reasonable curriculum and decent achievement standards. I don’t want my taxes paying for religious studies.

    #908373

    akuperma
    Participant

    Reasons why we don’t want to be like the Catholic schools:

    1. Many of the Catholic schools have endowments.

    2. Most of the Catholic schools are going broke anyways.

    3. The Catholic schools are usually co-ed, and try to get non-Catholic students. If we wanted goyim in our schools, it would be easier to get funding. That’s also the problem with

    a Jewish charter school since a public school can’t discriminate in admissions. In truth if we set up a multi-cultural, multi-religious school with a joint secular curriculum and separate religious curricula for each group, we probably could get funding for the secular part.

    4. The religious part of the curriculum is small (perhaps an extra subject or two), whereas

    the religious part of our curriculum is typically 60% of the day, and sometimes much more. If we wanted to run what is basically a public school with one or two periods of Jewish subjects, it would be much cheaper.

    #908375

    ready now
    Participant

    A type of positive discrimination or affirmative action for the Jewish race. Why do we need affirmative action? Because lack of knowledge of our unique heritage leads to assimilation that diminishes our race , has v sholom.

    We, a race of Jews would not be a race except for our authentic Jewish heritage and culture. The unique history of discrimination against Jewish people can easily be seen over the centuries in history.

    If this could happen it would be a big wake up call to a lot of Jewish people.

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